HistoryJunky
New member
Anyone have any insight on this? I know Springfield Armory has followed suit. I would love to see a similar offering from CZ or HK, particularly in DA/SA, but here I am day dreaming again.
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Why have more manufacturers not released a Sig P365 style pistol?
- Thread starter HistoryJunky
- Start date
Hammer fired actions require far more “real estate” if you will vs striker mechanisms. So you are not likely to see anything DA/SA.
HK moves slowly and does everything in house and tends to focus on duty/military sized arms.
As to the others? Glock would need to change their magazines pretty radically, CZ has never had good luck with itty bitty guns, Ruger might pump something out, Smith I would imagine will have something at some point.
R&D takes lots of time.
HK moves slowly and does everything in house and tends to focus on duty/military sized arms.
As to the others? Glock would need to change their magazines pretty radically, CZ has never had good luck with itty bitty guns, Ruger might pump something out, Smith I would imagine will have something at some point.
R&D takes lots of time.
HistoryJunky
New member
Your response is pretty much what I thought. Even in the world of standard double stack semi autos, hammer fired guns are rare.
Are 365 sales, in their original format, flying off the shelves or have dealers had to move the price downward to get them to sell?
The question has very little to do with technical ability or other issues. Are the advantages the Sig offers (10 rounds) enough to move the needle, long term, in regards to sales? Face it those who "would do anything to have a pistol that size with 10 rounds" already bought the Sig and did so early. Now we get to see if the difference matters.
Not worth the R+D if it doesn't move sales.
The question has very little to do with technical ability or other issues. Are the advantages the Sig offers (10 rounds) enough to move the needle, long term, in regards to sales? Face it those who "would do anything to have a pistol that size with 10 rounds" already bought the Sig and did so early. Now we get to see if the difference matters.
Not worth the R+D if it doesn't move sales.
HistoryJunky
New member
IMO a lot of people will buy the smallest gun they can justify as acceptable for a carry gun. This would be a .380 like the LCP. But I think a lot of others will see a 10 round 9mm gun like the 365 that is lighter, smaller, and thinner than its double stack competitors and be intrigued.
That being said, I haven't had the chance to shoot one yet. I have found double stack subcompacts to be reasonably shootable.
That being said, I haven't had the chance to shoot one yet. I have found double stack subcompacts to be reasonably shootable.
sigarms228
New member
IMO it would be most likely that Walther and S&W would come out with updated PPS and Shield line with higher capacity but time will tell. R&D and testing take time.
For now I am sticking with my original 9MM PPS and CCW IWB with the 7 round magazine. I tried both the P365 and Hellcat but I can shoot my PPS so much better than either that I am not willing to make the switch just to get more capacity. If I want more capacity I also CCW my Gen 2 Glock 19 a lot however for me my PPS is bit better at all day comfort.
For now I am sticking with my original 9MM PPS and CCW IWB with the 7 round magazine. I tried both the P365 and Hellcat but I can shoot my PPS so much better than either that I am not willing to make the switch just to get more capacity. If I want more capacity I also CCW my Gen 2 Glock 19 a lot however for me my PPS is bit better at all day comfort.
I'm not convinced that when the P365 came out that everyone went out and replaced their existing carry pistols, or even wanted to. Sure there is demand, but how much and how much to go around? Are people that hungry for another "me too" pistol? We still have people buying Shields, Glock 43s, etc. I can understand why many people like the P365 (I own an XL), but now as then the P365 doesn't seem to me to have completely displaced the existing market. As you yourself admit, you haven't even shot a P365.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
Really?HistoryJunky said:Even in the world of standard double stack semi autos, hammer fired guns are rare.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=604067
zincwarrior
New member
Nearly every manufacturer offers single or double column carry versions of their pistols with similar characteristics. What on earth are you talking about? Sig itself already had other versions.Anyone have any insight on this? I know Springfield Armory has followed suit. I would love to see a similar offering from CZ or HK, particularly in DA/SA, but here I am day dreaming again.
IN the words of the immortal bard..."wha???"
AgedWarrior
New member
I have yet to see a Hellcat yet...maybe when I am in Des Moines next week. They have yet to hit the stores in Sioux Falls that I have seen.IMO it would be most likely that Walther and S&W would come out with updated PPS and Shield line with higher capacity but time will tell. R&D and testing take time.
For now I am sticking with my original 9MM PPS and CCW IWB with the 7 round magazine. I tried both the P365 and Hellcat but I can shoot my PPS so much better than either that I am not willing to make the switch just to get more capacity. If I want more capacity I also CCW my Gen 2 Glock 19 a lot however for me my PPS is bit better at all day comfort.
TruthTellers
New member
Because they weren't convinced that the 365 was a legit gun and not a gimmick. With Glock and Springfield coming out with a similar design, everyone is going to take notice and start making a 10 round that's thicker than a single stack, but slimmer than a doublestack.
I expect some will be revealed at SHOT.
I expect some will be revealed at SHOT.
HistoryJunky
New member
My post is in regards to guns like the P365. It is not a double or single stack, it is a "staggered column" magazine... I guess a stack and a half if you will.
And to my knowledge SIG and Springfield Armory are the only manufacturers offering an example of that at this time.
The advantage is greater capacity at a similar size to a single stack 9mm gun that would typically hold 6 or 7 rounds.
And to my knowledge SIG and Springfield Armory are the only manufacturers offering an example of that at this time.
The advantage is greater capacity at a similar size to a single stack 9mm gun that would typically hold 6 or 7 rounds.
I expect some will be revealed at SHOT.
This ^^^^
I still use my G43 as my “shorts and t-shirt” gun, once the 365 gets some time in the wild and longer time use reviews start coming out (round counts in the mtpl thousands) are avail, i may “upgrade”.
Until then, 6 and a reload is going to have to do in hot weather. With winter coming to Colorado, i can darn near conceal a Barrett. Lol
FYI there are already reviews for round counts in the multiple thousands.This ^^^^
I still use my G43 as my “shorts and t-shirt” gun, once the 365 gets some time in the wild and longer time use reviews start coming out (round counts in the mtpl thousands) are avail, i may “upgrade”.
Until then, 6 and a reload is going to have to do in hot weather. With winter coming to Colorado, i can darn near conceal a Barrett. Lol
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Last I checked the P365 was still around $500. Don't know if it was a little higher when it first came out. The only concession I'd seen made was to change which magazine you get, but the price was still the same.
I have no doubt that a ton of companies are trying to cram more ammo into their small pistols now that they know it's possible. But they're not about to drop their existing models. Continuing their existing models will still make money because the lower price point can appeal to a different crowd: budget minded, brand loyal, slow adopters, people that just like what they have, people who have stopped caring about newfangled things.
I have no doubt that a ton of companies are trying to cram more ammo into their small pistols now that they know it's possible. But they're not about to drop their existing models. Continuing their existing models will still make money because the lower price point can appeal to a different crowd: budget minded, brand loyal, slow adopters, people that just like what they have, people who have stopped caring about newfangled things.
The Shield is definitely the market leader in the micro 9mm market. It has a track record now, proven reliability, folks like its ergonomics and probably most importantly it sells for a relatively low price.
The Glock's single stack micro is holding strong mainly just because it's Glock. It's the Shield's main contender.
Sig had to do something radical different to enter that market. Unfortunately the 365 started off on the wrong foot with striker timing issues. The Sig came back with the XL, but it's still very new and a bit larger than some want.
Ruger? You never know what they are going to do. The LC9's doing OK. Better seller than the XDs probably, but not as sexy. They could do a higher cap micro tomorrow or they could do nothing different at all for another couple decades.
The XDs is now proven and has been a good gun, but overpriced. Never had a huge following. Springfield's now hoping the Hellcat will be their home run.
The Hellcat needs to be a hit with reliability, ergonomics and accuracy (like the Shield was). Or get the price down low (again like the Shield). Otherwise it's just another also ran like the XDs.
If the Hellcat takes off and the 365 improvements finally gets Sig the market's trust back, we may see a micro 9 capacity war. Those two guns need to get some real sales (how many million Shields have been sold now?) for the other companies to start seeing that playing the capacity game has some profit though.
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The Glock's single stack micro is holding strong mainly just because it's Glock. It's the Shield's main contender.
Sig had to do something radical different to enter that market. Unfortunately the 365 started off on the wrong foot with striker timing issues. The Sig came back with the XL, but it's still very new and a bit larger than some want.
Ruger? You never know what they are going to do. The LC9's doing OK. Better seller than the XDs probably, but not as sexy. They could do a higher cap micro tomorrow or they could do nothing different at all for another couple decades.
The XDs is now proven and has been a good gun, but overpriced. Never had a huge following. Springfield's now hoping the Hellcat will be their home run.
The Hellcat needs to be a hit with reliability, ergonomics and accuracy (like the Shield was). Or get the price down low (again like the Shield). Otherwise it's just another also ran like the XDs.
If the Hellcat takes off and the 365 improvements finally gets Sig the market's trust back, we may see a micro 9 capacity war. Those two guns need to get some real sales (how many million Shields have been sold now?) for the other companies to start seeing that playing the capacity game has some profit though.
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claydoctor
New member
I had the opposite impression from the OP. Seems to me like every time I turn around, there's another one. Even Mossberg has gotten into the act.
TruthTellers
New member
They're not going to drop existing single stack models simply because the single stacks are significantly slimmer than even the 1.5x stacks like the p365. Personally, I'm not sold on the 1.5x stacks because I don't see how being 4mm's slimmer makes them better than a standard subcompact doublestack that holds 12+1, nor do I see how them being thicker than a single stack that holds 7+1 or 8+1 is better.Last I checked the P365 was still around $500. Don't know if it was a little higher when it first came out. The only concession I'd seen made was to change which magazine you get, but the price was still the same.
I have no doubt that a ton of companies are trying to cram more ammo into their small pistols now that they know it's possible. But they're not about to drop their existing models. Continuing their existing models will still make money because the lower price point can appeal to a different crowd: budget minded, brand loyal, slow adopters, people that just like what they have, people who have stopped caring about newfangled things.