Why does Remington mock me with their brass?

[Sevens]

If the subject brass is .38 Special then by all means, your best avenue for value is to find someone selling used brass.

.38 Special may very well be the most durable, long lasting, load-the-stuff-until-you-die brass there ever was. It doesn't get lost, because it doesn't get flung from an auto-chucker. And the loads are not hot & heavy, they run a mild pressure and don't need a gorilla crimp on them.

.38 Special brass doesn't wear out easily. Buy some used range brass or "once fired" or whatever they call it... it's your best deal by far.

 

[Crankylove]

I'm much, much more alarmed at your addendum regarding the Hornady brass

It was a bit of a shock to see the Hornady brass Frankenmauser mentioned. They came in the nice little cardboard box, and were nice and shiney with no dents and nice even case mouths.........and then you turn it over to see the primer pocket. "off center" is a bit of an understatement for some of those cases. One i picked up was so bad that the flash hole was actually touching the side of the primer pocket, and several others were far enough off center, they would have no trouble bending/breaking a decapping pin if you didnt catch it during your case prep. Apparently the extra money for the Hornady brass (versus RP or Win) didn't really do much with this time around. Maybe better luck next time?

 

[FrankenMauser]

Wow. There are a lot more responses here, than I expected.

Just to clarify-
Yes, that was new brass. It came packaged in the green "Remington Component" brass bags.

You should send that photo (or take some better ones) to the dealer that sold it to you and ask if that is the quality of merchandise they really want to be selling.

I bought it at the Midvale, UT Sportsman's Warehouse store. If I showed them a picture, they wouldn't give me the time of day. If I tried to return it, they'd tell me to get bent. The only hope in that store, is a friendly old guy that is a die-hard hand loader. But, he's just a salesman. He wouldn't have much sway with management. ...Their store policies are horrible, but we don't have many options for non-mainstream reloading supplies around here. (.35 Whelen is far from popular here)

I'm much, much more alarmed at your addendum regarding the Hornady brass than I am about any part of your rant on the R-P brass.

That Hornady brass was a MASSIVE disappointment. I opened the box, told the dog, "ooh, pretty shinies", pulled the bag out, and put everything on a shelf in disgust. I'll try to get a picture for this thread later.

I'll be calling Midway and Hornady on Monday, to see which company feels like correcting the issue. Midway will just want to send me more off-center flash holes, so I'm hoping Hornady will step up.

Crankylove showed up when I was about half way through the prep on that .35 Whelen brass. The first thing I did, was have him look at that Hornady brass (without hinting at the issue). Within 5 seconds, I heard, "Holy <expletive>; look at those flash holes!"

 

[Utahar15]

FrankenMauser

Gallenson's
166 E 200 S
Salt Lake City, UT 84111
(801) 328-2016



if you are talking about the Sportsman's Warehouse in Utah, then try the above place. Cheaper by far. The staff in the reloading section knows there stuff.

I can't say enough about this store. Primers are cheaper than Sportsman or Cabales and you are not hounded when you go in, but if you need help they are there to assist you.

Robb

 

[Crankylove]

The staff in the reloading section knows there stuff.

Gallenson's is one of the shops we frequent, in addition to Doug's, Sportsmans, Cabela's, and every once in a while if we are in the area, Van Wagnen's.

You must talk to different people at Gallenson's than I do........the staff in the reloading area when I go there (if there is anybody at all), are usually very grumpy, and always too busy to help or answer any questions (apparently stocking the clearance ammo table is more vital than assisting customers).

The prices there are usually pretty good, and they are the usually only place around I can get my .358 Win brass, but the parking sucks, and the store is usually quite crowded.

 

[marks655]

The last Remington 6.5x55 swede cases I purchased would not chamber unless full-resized before loading. I have since gone to Lapua.

Remington 444 Marlin brass have been excellent.

I just bought some Starline 45-70. Looks nice but have not loaded any yet. Does anyone have an opinion on Starline rifle brass?

 

[Scorch]

C'mon, folks. Brass is produced in a factory on a production machine, saw cut for final length, and then drops into a box. That gets dumped unceremoniously into a tumbler to deburr it. It gets weighed and bagged. If Remington went to the trouble making brass that many of you do, it would cost $5 per cartridge case.

What I do (not right or wrong):
1- Run through the sizer
2- Trim to length
3- Chamfer and deburr
4- Deburr the flash hole
5- Load
6- Fire
Repeat steps 1 through 6 as needed.

 

[Acerdog]

You might try this shop out the owner is a real dillon fan but prices are good
http://christensenreloading.com

 

[Bamashooter]

I have loaded alot of remington brass over the years and I havent ever seen anything like what you showed us. Maybe it wasnt remingtons fault. From the time it leaves the factory until the time you get it there is no telling what happened to it. Im not saying remington is perfect but I really like their brass.

 

[FrankenMauser]

As for the Hornady .44 Rem Mag....

On closer inspection, I this box of brass seems to be a mixture from two separate lots. About 40% of the brass is beautiful, and perfectly usable. It's the remaining 60% that was bad.

Of the bad brass, about 50% has off-center flash holes and oblong primer pockets. The other 50% has horribly off-center flash holes, clearly double-struck primer pockets, and galling/burrs in the primer pockets.

Many of the cases actually have off-center flash holes, AND off-center primer pockets.

This brass is so shiny... I had an incredibly difficult time trying to get the lighting, camera, reflections, shadows, and detail balanced. I had to settle on these two images. I just couldn't get the details to show up, with all the reflected light.


"Bad" brass with oblong primer pockets and off-center flash holes:
The crescent-shaped mark on the edge of the primer pocket is secondary damage of some kind. These primer pockets are oval, ignoring that imprint.

"Bad" brass with double-struck primer pocket, off-center flash hole, and visible galling/burrs:

Same photo as above, with outlines showing the two strikes for the flash hole, and galling/burrs (arrow) in the primer pocket. (The damage is worse than this photo shows.) Compare the blue and red circles to the image above.

If this was Magtech brass, for $18 / 100 pieces; I wouldn't care. But with the price of Hornady brass, their claims of excellence, and the reputation this brass has earned... I expected better.

I'll see what Hornady has to say on Monday.

I must ask again, though:
Are my standards and expectations too high?

Am I justified in thinking this quality level is unacceptable?

 

[m&p45acp10+1]

I am sure with the pictures you took Hornady will make it right. I use a lot of Hornady .223 Rem brass, but all of it is range pick up. So far all of the cases I have picked up, and prepped have been outstanding.

For Remington brass I have R-P I bought new for .221 Fireball that I am still using. I have trimmed them once, and have well over 20 reloads out of them. Had a few spilt, but the other 290 of them are still just fine.

 

[Sevens]

If I were in management at Hornady, I'd fly a black stealth chopper to your house and drop a Delta team in there and steal your camera, computer and put duct-tape over your mouth!

Either that, or I'd bust my hump trying to figure out HOW that brass got out... and I'd print out your entire post and I'd print out those pictures, blow them up nice and large on glossy photo paper and I'd address the whole company staff with all of it, making big posters to hang in the facility as a prime example of what NOT to do and how the word can spread.

Hornady would be off their rocker if they didn't respond to your comments and pictures.

I would leave Midway completely out of it, except to tell Hornady how you got the brass. Midway has no more to do with it than the USPS does for delivering the Priority Mail box to your house that contained it.

Asking too much? Heck no, not in the slightest. That's crap brass.

I can't say "A-Merc" as easily as you dropped it earlier in the thread, but it's not Hornady quality.

 

[hooligan1]

Hornady's Customer Service is "Topnotch" in my book as they have dealt with and fixed any problem I have had with their products, dilligently!!! Call them!

 

[wingman]

I must ask again, though:
Are my standards and expectations too high?

Am I justified in thinking this quality level is unacceptable?

I believe your correct while some minor flaws may be acceptable what I've have purchased within past two years much is poor except for Laupa and they do not cover all calibers I use.

I recently purchased a box of Hornady superperformance match 223 that brass was of much better quality then Hornady bulk brass, but I find the same problems in Remington and winchester also. Honestly I believe the manufactures feel the average reloader don't care and perhaps that is correct.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"The crescent-shaped mark on the edge of the primer pocket is secondary damage of some kind."

I can tell you EXACTLY what that mark is, it's the damned tool head that punches the flash hole.

Notice how the flash hole AND that odd mark are both biased in the same direction? That's not an accident. The case wasn't lined up properly in the tool head.

Pure and simple.

 

[SwampYankee]

Hornady does have QC problems from time to time, so I'm not surprised to read about your experience with their brass. The screw holes that mount the primer feeder on my LNL AP were drilled improperly, they are 1/4" off. This causes interference between the tube and the press. If QC people (or the guy who drilled the holes) had simply popped a primer feed tube in place to check for alignment, my particular press never would have left the factory.

That said, they do have very good CS and are always helpful on the phone. I'm sure they would have sent me a new press if I sent this one back but between the weight and the hassle of shipping, it was easier to drill my own new holes...

 

[GeorgeSr]

The new brass I have been buying from Midwayfor many years comes with a note to run them thru the resizing die to straighten out damaged necks etc.,which comes from the factory tumbleing.

 

[Hawg]

I like Remington but whenever I need new brass I go to Wally World and buy loaded rounds to plink with and then reload them. I've had good luck buying Starline and Winchester 44-40 brass. The only problem which isn't really a problem is I occasionally find a Starline that wasn't necked.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I can tell you EXACTLY what that mark is, it's the damned tool head that punches the flash hole.

Notice how the flash hole AND that odd mark are both biased in the same direction? That's not an accident. The case wasn't lined up properly in the tool head.

I had thought the same thing, and also considered the possibility of a damaged bunter (final step for primer pocket forming, and generally the step used for imprinting the head stamp).

However.... The more I look at these cases, the more I think most of the issue comes from the primer pockets. The primer pockets seem to be farther off-center than the flash holes - in opposite directions.

 

[langenc]

Bigpappa and perhaps others kinda asked my question.. What does Remington think of your questions/pictures. Ask them and let us know.