Why do mass shootings keep happening in the USA?
- Thread starter Dave_Shotgun
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A couple of things.
It's too easy to say the folks are nut jobs and leave it at that. Makes ya feel good, but too easy.
There actually is an uptick, over the last year, in the number of cases where men (usually) have killed their families and then themselves. Most all of these have been directly related to loss of jobs/economic status and desperation.
There have also been several recent cases of men going into public centers and shooting people indiscriminately (man went into a church, fella into the retirement home where his ex worked, fella out here into the job he'd just been layed off from, etc.) I think the economic situation puts added pressure on folks likely to break and they break the way they do, in the area where they are already cracked.
The Pittsburg thing? Who knows why the fella did that yet? But what news is available tells us he was a not well liked, short fuse fella (got in a couple of fistfights with his neighbors over piddling grievences) with an obsession with guns and he lost his job.
Oakland? A man didn't want to go back to jail.
Can't lump all these different events together. The most common theme is they were under economic pressure and broke where they were already cracked.
Another theme is that too many folks in this country believe guns make them powerful, or give them power.
But politicians will lump them together. They can't solve the economic pressure part, so to look like they are doing something they can ban AKs.
tipoc
It's too easy to say the folks are nut jobs and leave it at that. Makes ya feel good, but too easy.
There actually is an uptick, over the last year, in the number of cases where men (usually) have killed their families and then themselves. Most all of these have been directly related to loss of jobs/economic status and desperation.
There have also been several recent cases of men going into public centers and shooting people indiscriminately (man went into a church, fella into the retirement home where his ex worked, fella out here into the job he'd just been layed off from, etc.) I think the economic situation puts added pressure on folks likely to break and they break the way they do, in the area where they are already cracked.
The Pittsburg thing? Who knows why the fella did that yet? But what news is available tells us he was a not well liked, short fuse fella (got in a couple of fistfights with his neighbors over piddling grievences) with an obsession with guns and he lost his job.
Oakland? A man didn't want to go back to jail.
Can't lump all these different events together. The most common theme is they were under economic pressure and broke where they were already cracked.
Another theme is that too many folks in this country believe guns make them powerful, or give them power.
But politicians will lump them together. They can't solve the economic pressure part, so to look like they are doing something they can ban AKs.
tipoc
Hmmm?
Doesn't make me feel good at all.
The fact of the matter is that these people we are talking about are not the average mentally competent people. Something in them makes murder an option.
Qualifies as a nut job to me. You don't consider the inner workings of these peoples' brains the same as a normal healthy person's, do you?
I might add, I don't think being a nut job excuses them from their crimes, but if you lined up 99 regular people and the one murderer, then I'd have to say that 1% of those people is mentally different. Call it a mindset, or lack of values, or whatever. But something in their nut job heads makes them do it
I can't see how you can say this:
And then turn around to say that they are not nut jobs...they "cracked"...what does that term mean if not that the person became a nut job?
I think what tipoc means by "feel good" is only in reference to be able to put a label on it so it can be dissected. Feel good as in giving you at least a starting point to be able to understand it with a level head. You start with nut job as the inner core of the issue and work outwards.
Weakness is the why! Not the circumstance. my family has been under extreme economic pressure many times over the years and this last time is due to me being unable to work caused by a crash in '07. I have no interest in goin' on a killin' spree what so ever!
Excuses are like buttholes... everyone has one but no one wants to hear your...
Brent
Excuses are like buttholes... everyone has one but no one wants to hear your...
Brent
Your on to something here,in my life time I've seen population double and yes society has changed, less disciplined, declining morals values or whatever you wish to call it. Public schools are run by the far left and appear to teach that America is the enemy, two parent families both working to purchase things they don't need, the rest are single parents,millions of children without fathers.
Too many factors in our new America that will cause such actions as we see and certainly the media is no help at all. We're fragmenting into groups with no common bond, The question for me is how or what turns it around, whatever that may be will be difficult but I can say that unless we control ourselves someone will do it for us and that is the reason we simply cannot say, "that's just the way it is".
I would like to see some stimulus money to study the effect of liberalism on society, but I think it will be a long wait.
Dave_Shotgun
New member
I really hope these mass shootings don't prompt Barrack Obama to prohibit or restrict firearms, because that will probably back-fire on him and in 4 years, when Sarah Palin runs for president, people might vote for her. Just a thought.
Hope? and change.
Most folks can deal with a finite amout of hardship.Tough winter,but the promise of spring.Lost the crop,but we'll plant again next year....
Good,Play by the rules folks can go over the edge
If they worked all their lives,built a future,and have it robbed by crooks and corruption.
Pensions can be defaulted,etc.Promises broke create rage.Create fear.
People eating fear and anger,eventually can have their minds find a "groove in a warped record"
A lot of folks jumped from windows in the 1920's stock market crash.
Perhaps now there is more to be angry about.
The belief systems and promises of our nation are being abandoned.
I think we will see many more desperate acts by desperate people.
I do not suggest it is excusable.No matter what led to it,killing people will gain no respect or empathy.
Compare Timothy McVeigh to those who signed the Declaration of Independence,or the Chinese student who stood before the tank at Tienimen Square.We can honor,support,rally behind those who will risk dying for the love of their country,but not someone who kills from rage.
Agreed,the media and political agenda pump ot for all the propaganda it is worth.
Not long ago,in my town,a woman who was using her cell phone struck and killed a 9 year old girl with her vehicle.She was convicted of distracted driving,guilty of a misdemeanor.Got one years probation,$300 fine,had to write a letter of appology,do community service.
How many people are killed by cellphones in USA each week? What is the body count of texting and driving?
Where is the media?
It is not that the media cares about people or death,or the same focus would be on cellphones.The media wants death,atrocity,horror.It gives them a story for their pornographic sensationalism and ammunition to support the political agenda they promote.
It is not about guns.Our culture is being torn down.
$800,000,000 for Hamas,an Ipod fror the Queen,and lets tell our Veterans who left blood and brothers and sisters on the sand we changed our minds and they should buy there own health insurance.(Credit this idea to Tammy Bruce)
Does anybody suspect printing trillions of empty dollars will make their financial plan for old age diminish?
Lets look at stopping the people who are robbing and destroying our economy and our future .
But,yeah,lets also be peaceful.Hurting,killing,gains nothing.
Most folks can deal with a finite amout of hardship.Tough winter,but the promise of spring.Lost the crop,but we'll plant again next year....
Good,Play by the rules folks can go over the edge
If they worked all their lives,built a future,and have it robbed by crooks and corruption.
Pensions can be defaulted,etc.Promises broke create rage.Create fear.
People eating fear and anger,eventually can have their minds find a "groove in a warped record"
A lot of folks jumped from windows in the 1920's stock market crash.
Perhaps now there is more to be angry about.
The belief systems and promises of our nation are being abandoned.
I think we will see many more desperate acts by desperate people.
I do not suggest it is excusable.No matter what led to it,killing people will gain no respect or empathy.
Compare Timothy McVeigh to those who signed the Declaration of Independence,or the Chinese student who stood before the tank at Tienimen Square.We can honor,support,rally behind those who will risk dying for the love of their country,but not someone who kills from rage.
Agreed,the media and political agenda pump ot for all the propaganda it is worth.
Not long ago,in my town,a woman who was using her cell phone struck and killed a 9 year old girl with her vehicle.She was convicted of distracted driving,guilty of a misdemeanor.Got one years probation,$300 fine,had to write a letter of appology,do community service.
How many people are killed by cellphones in USA each week? What is the body count of texting and driving?
Where is the media?
It is not that the media cares about people or death,or the same focus would be on cellphones.The media wants death,atrocity,horror.It gives them a story for their pornographic sensationalism and ammunition to support the political agenda they promote.
It is not about guns.Our culture is being torn down.
$800,000,000 for Hamas,an Ipod fror the Queen,and lets tell our Veterans who left blood and brothers and sisters on the sand we changed our minds and they should buy there own health insurance.(Credit this idea to Tammy Bruce)
Does anybody suspect printing trillions of empty dollars will make their financial plan for old age diminish?
Lets look at stopping the people who are robbing and destroying our economy and our future .
But,yeah,lets also be peaceful.Hurting,killing,gains nothing.
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bojack2575
Moderator
I think Wingman is absolutely correct. This is not the America of 20 years ago there is no self accountability "its always someone else's fault" You can thank liberalism for that. I can honestly say that I am not proud of what America has become and where we are going........but I am like Andy Dufrain I still have hope
Its not that they hadn't happened before.
Otherwise there wouldn't have been a St Patrick's day Massacre.
Only those that get the media sensation are the ones noted in history.
They have happened thousands of times long before.
Shootings being mass killings, or attempts thereof.
Not all involved guns.
Some of the earliest recorded could be argued to be within the Old Testament of the Bible.
We hear of them more today for two reasons.
The information age is upon us. We can hear of them more rapidly.
And, an unbiased media will use any means necessary to correct what it feels is "wrong" via political pressure. The easiest way to "move" the masses is to show them a best/worst case scenario.
If the scenario choosen is repeated, they will use the drama repeatedly.
Otherwise there wouldn't have been a St Patrick's day Massacre.
Only those that get the media sensation are the ones noted in history.
They have happened thousands of times long before.
Shootings being mass killings, or attempts thereof.
Not all involved guns.
Some of the earliest recorded could be argued to be within the Old Testament of the Bible.
We hear of them more today for two reasons.
The information age is upon us. We can hear of them more rapidly.
And, an unbiased media will use any means necessary to correct what it feels is "wrong" via political pressure. The easiest way to "move" the masses is to show them a best/worst case scenario.
If the scenario choosen is repeated, they will use the drama repeatedly.
The biggest reason is because there are over 300 million people living here, in relative freedom. With freedom comes responsibilty, but for the last 30-40 years many parents in this country have not taught their children responsibility.
Human life is as cheap here now as in places like the ME and Africa. It didn't used to be that way. People used to repect others. Now it's all me, me, me.
Human life is as cheap here now as in places like the ME and Africa. It didn't used to be that way. People used to repect others. Now it's all me, me, me.
No matter how bad your life gets,there is NO JUSTIFICATION for killing people that you supposedly love and care about.
And there is NO JUSTIFICATION for killing people you don't know or even that you do know just because you have decided to go on a rampage.
At one time or another EVERYBODYS life truly sucks.
Life gives NOBODY a free pass.
When someone decides that their own misery is so important,so special that they need to spread it around,it is a cognitive and logically derived mental decision on their part that they have the right to take any life they want to prove how miserable they are.
You want to see the psycho cool factor of guns?
Look on your television every night.
I can guarantee you you will find the very companies and people that are screaming for more gun laws making ad money by showing careless and stupid depictions of gun use and possession on fifty percent of the action shows they broadcast.
The people doing these killings have decided to kill you and me.
There was no accident.
They planned these killings and carried them out.
I feel absolutely no remorse that these killers are dead.
I only wish they have had the common decency to put the gun to their own head and only kill themselves instead of all the people just working their cruddy jobs or trying to scrape out a living or trying to better themselves.
People have been fighting depression and struggling with their jobs since there has been both.
99.999999% have never decided to pick up any gun they own and hurt anyone because their life sucks.
They just get up everyday,go to their dead end jobs and continue to struggle with dignity and grace.
These are the true heros of gun ownership.
People that know the difference between courage and utter selfish stupidity.
And there is NO JUSTIFICATION for killing people you don't know or even that you do know just because you have decided to go on a rampage.
At one time or another EVERYBODYS life truly sucks.
Life gives NOBODY a free pass.
When someone decides that their own misery is so important,so special that they need to spread it around,it is a cognitive and logically derived mental decision on their part that they have the right to take any life they want to prove how miserable they are.
You want to see the psycho cool factor of guns?
Look on your television every night.
I can guarantee you you will find the very companies and people that are screaming for more gun laws making ad money by showing careless and stupid depictions of gun use and possession on fifty percent of the action shows they broadcast.
The people doing these killings have decided to kill you and me.
There was no accident.
They planned these killings and carried them out.
I feel absolutely no remorse that these killers are dead.
I only wish they have had the common decency to put the gun to their own head and only kill themselves instead of all the people just working their cruddy jobs or trying to scrape out a living or trying to better themselves.
People have been fighting depression and struggling with their jobs since there has been both.
99.999999% have never decided to pick up any gun they own and hurt anyone because their life sucks.
They just get up everyday,go to their dead end jobs and continue to struggle with dignity and grace.
These are the true heros of gun ownership.
People that know the difference between courage and utter selfish stupidity.
skydiver3346
New member
Why the killings?
Really hard to give you a concrete or definitive answer on why these folks are going haywire like this?
Bottom line is, it just seems that there are a lot of folks nowadays who just don't respect authority or even human life anymore. Criminals used to steal or rob from you and go on their way. Nowadays it seems they have to shoot you after they rob you. Some are frustrated from losing their jobs, marriage, etc. Some are just bound and determined to end their life and want to take someone else with them. I am an older gentleman and I can't remember ever hearing about crimes like this when I was a young man. The times they are a changing.....
Maybe its simple? Not to start preaching, but one thing no one has mentioned, (maybe we are just getting away from our faith in a higher power and putting it on the back burner). Seems we are trying to handle all our problems by taking it out on other folks instead. I don't know, but it is getting really bad when you can't go to work, school (or even take a leisurely walk with your wife) and not get attacked or shot by some guy going off the deep end. It is no wonder so many people are carrying a concealed weapon nowadays.
Really hard to give you a concrete or definitive answer on why these folks are going haywire like this?
Bottom line is, it just seems that there are a lot of folks nowadays who just don't respect authority or even human life anymore. Criminals used to steal or rob from you and go on their way. Nowadays it seems they have to shoot you after they rob you. Some are frustrated from losing their jobs, marriage, etc. Some are just bound and determined to end their life and want to take someone else with them. I am an older gentleman and I can't remember ever hearing about crimes like this when I was a young man. The times they are a changing.....
Maybe its simple? Not to start preaching, but one thing no one has mentioned, (maybe we are just getting away from our faith in a higher power and putting it on the back burner). Seems we are trying to handle all our problems by taking it out on other folks instead. I don't know, but it is getting really bad when you can't go to work, school (or even take a leisurely walk with your wife) and not get attacked or shot by some guy going off the deep end. It is no wonder so many people are carrying a concealed weapon nowadays.
EricReynolds
New member
I think too much emphasis is always placed on why? There is always an outcry in the aftermath of a tragedy asking why? Media asks and law enforcement feels obligated to explain a possible motive. I believe that more often then not, it's a simple explanation. Some people are just crazy and will do unpredictable things. Trying to make sense out of the senseless is a waste of time. What I am curious about as far as the massacre in Binghamton is where did the shooter get his weapons. The killer from Virginia Tech. bought his guns legally despite having a history of mental illness. Here in New York, to get a handgun you'll have an extensive background check done. I don't know what the history of this latest shooter is but the Virginia Tech. assasin would not have been able to get 2 pistols here. I know a lot of people will say a criminal can get a gun easier than an honest citizen, but that's a 1/2 truth. Criminals often can get a gun. What about nutcases? Not just anyone can walk in to a bad neighborhood and start asking around of the local bad guys, "Hey where can I get a gun?" I also know a lot of people are very much against registration because they believe that's the first step towards the government coming and taking all of our guns away. I know that others believe that second amendment means there should be no restrictions whatsoever. There has to be regulations though. Not just to keep guns away from criminals, but also crazy people. I think the latter is often overlooked.
And,Eric,I think way too much emphasis is placed on who,or what else can we blame besides the shooter.
As in,who sold him the gun?
It is already against the law to murder people.Review the story of Cain and Abel.A rock,was it?
The only person responsible,is the person who could have chosen to not murder.No one else murdered.
The litigation induced attitude "Well.if only you hadn't xxx,he would not have murdered "is totally irresponsible BS.
No prohibition or registration will stop murder.NYC's laws do not prevent murder.
Think in terms of still having teeth to fight back with.
As in,who sold him the gun?
It is already against the law to murder people.Review the story of Cain and Abel.A rock,was it?
The only person responsible,is the person who could have chosen to not murder.No one else murdered.
The litigation induced attitude "Well.if only you hadn't xxx,he would not have murdered "is totally irresponsible BS.
No prohibition or registration will stop murder.NYC's laws do not prevent murder.
Think in terms of still having teeth to fight back with.
To the OP: There's really no rocket science involved or needed with this. It's been a long, hard winter in the midst of the worst economic environment since the Great Depression coupled with a society that has turned away from personal responsibility and towards anti-depressant prescription drug use. Add all of this to a United States that's twice the population it was back in our grand father's day and TEN TIMES the population of your Canada and statistically I'm amazed that we're not seeing MORE of this crap.
Oly
Oly
The odds are that we would have, prior to the moment when they snapped. Supposing that there is some simple, quantifiable difference between people does little or nothing to help us to understand the situation. All it does is allow us to mentally partition those people off from ourselves so that we can all rest assured that it isn't us.
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