Why aren't revolvers pistols anymore?
- Thread starter Dave85
- Start date
FirstFreedom
Moderator
Mal, I buy that - except, you're talking about a "Grip", not a "stock" - UNLESS you define stock broadly to include a grip that is not made of wood - I do not define it that way, but IF you do, then Oxford is arguably correct.
Saying that something has more than one definition does not answer the question of which one is number ONE - the MOST correct definition - dicitionaries can and do have the job of making that judgment call based on their research of usage, and deciding which def is FIRST. That's the MOST correct one.
In any event, the answer is that the weight of authority seems to clearly indicate that pistol=handgun, and so therefore all revolvers are pistols (the reverse is not necessarily true), and all semi-auto handguns are pistols (the reverse is not necessarily true). All other handguns are also pistols, since pistols=handguns.
So it's SETTLED, folks! (in my opinion). To call a revolver a pistol is CORRECT! And FirstFreedom looked over his persuasive analysis and saw that it was good. And a hush came upon all the land with respect to this issue, and the result of this analysis henceforward reigned supreme, without any manner of dispute. And the pharisees and saducees so inscribed this truth in their sacred writings, and FFs will was done, and Sam Colt's ghost was pleased.
Saying that something has more than one definition does not answer the question of which one is number ONE - the MOST correct definition - dicitionaries can and do have the job of making that judgment call based on their research of usage, and deciding which def is FIRST. That's the MOST correct one.
In any event, the answer is that the weight of authority seems to clearly indicate that pistol=handgun, and so therefore all revolvers are pistols (the reverse is not necessarily true), and all semi-auto handguns are pistols (the reverse is not necessarily true). All other handguns are also pistols, since pistols=handguns.
So it's SETTLED, folks! (in my opinion). To call a revolver a pistol is CORRECT! And FirstFreedom looked over his persuasive analysis and saw that it was good. And a hush came upon all the land with respect to this issue, and the result of this analysis henceforward reigned supreme, without any manner of dispute. And the pharisees and saducees so inscribed this truth in their sacred writings, and FFs will was done, and Sam Colt's ghost was pleased.
Fred Hansen
New member
I think I heard a big sigh of relief coming from the general direction of the folks over at OED.
OutAtTheEdge
New member
Common usage - or misusage, actually - will probably always prevent such matters from ever being thoroughly settled. The ATF form 4473 that we've all grown to cherish, for instance, has a box for identifying the type of firearm, and lists the choices as "rifle", "shotgun", "revolver", or "pistol". And then there's Remington's backer card for their blister-packed magazines, with the word CLIP emblazoned across the top. Does Remington's usage effectively legitimize the term, then? I think most of us would say it doesn't. But what about the ongoing debate over the ".45 Colt" vs. ".45 Long Colt"? The predominent argument in support of the legitimacy of the "Long Colt" designation cites the use of that name on boxes of ammunition marketed around the turn of the 20th century, presumably to prevent confusing the ammo with the concurrent, shorter, .45 Schofield round.
Along this same vein, here is another potentially confusing issue that occurred to me a while back, concerning the regulations in some parts of the country permitting only shotguns for deer hunting, and not rifles. What, exactly, makes a long gun a "rifle"? I have always believed that the defining feature was a rifled barrel. But now that rifled shotgun barrels have claimed dominance in the deer camps, where is the line drawn? A legal definition based on cartidge/shell design would be almost impossible, considering the occasional manufacture of brass hulled shotgun shells over the years. So...?
Finally, to dump a little fuel on the clip/magazine issue, I'll point out that, technically, the term "magazine" is almost universally misused by those of us in the know. To be completely accurate, that thing we stuff full of cartridges and jam up into our firearms is rightfully called a "detachable box magazine." In general, "magazine" is used to describe a storage space, such as the powder magazine on a Naval vessel. As it relates to guns, the term "magazine" correctly describes any place on a firearm designed to store and feed ammunition, such as the integral magazine on rifles without detachable boxes, or the area in an M1 Garand into which we insert the en bloc clip.
Okay, enough. I'm.....
OutAtTheEdge
Along this same vein, here is another potentially confusing issue that occurred to me a while back, concerning the regulations in some parts of the country permitting only shotguns for deer hunting, and not rifles. What, exactly, makes a long gun a "rifle"? I have always believed that the defining feature was a rifled barrel. But now that rifled shotgun barrels have claimed dominance in the deer camps, where is the line drawn? A legal definition based on cartidge/shell design would be almost impossible, considering the occasional manufacture of brass hulled shotgun shells over the years. So...?
Finally, to dump a little fuel on the clip/magazine issue, I'll point out that, technically, the term "magazine" is almost universally misused by those of us in the know. To be completely accurate, that thing we stuff full of cartridges and jam up into our firearms is rightfully called a "detachable box magazine." In general, "magazine" is used to describe a storage space, such as the powder magazine on a Naval vessel. As it relates to guns, the term "magazine" correctly describes any place on a firearm designed to store and feed ammunition, such as the integral magazine on rifles without detachable boxes, or the area in an M1 Garand into which we insert the en bloc clip.
Okay, enough. I'm.....
OutAtTheEdge
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So going back to the "we want to get to the original meanings and call things by there proper names" theroy...
Revolver = revolving cylinder handgun
Semi-auto = semi- automatic magazine fed handgun
Pistol = small knife or dagger concealable in clothing
Actualy, I've always called them both pistols and will continue to do so..both are variations of...pistols!
This sort of pendantry erupted in the gun magazines about 40 years ago. The gun writers liked to wax smart about revolvers not being pistols because pistols have continguous barrel and chamber. The thrust of the argumen was that the gun writer was a lot smarter than the idiots who called their revolvers pistols and that anybody who did so was ignorant and not a good american. Some of them still do this in regard to "wheelgun" saying that people who call their revolvers such are stupid because only carriage mounted cannons are wheelguns.
As mentioned early above, the distinction was lost on Sam Colt who invented revolvers and called them Revolving Pistols. Now some people insist that revolvers are actually "rotators" since they don't revolve except when a drugstore cowboy twirls them around on his finger. This might be one of the reasons that people don't seem to pay much attention to gunwriters anymore.
As mentioned early above, the distinction was lost on Sam Colt who invented revolvers and called them Revolving Pistols. Now some people insist that revolvers are actually "rotators" since they don't revolve except when a drugstore cowboy twirls them around on his finger. This might be one of the reasons that people don't seem to pay much attention to gunwriters anymore.
Zigokubasi
New member
so then...
What do we call a Dardick? It doesn't really have a chamber, per se. There is a cylinder of sorts - each "chamber" consists of two walls made up by the revolving section, with the third made up by the outside wall of the "cylinder" itself. Fed by an integral magazine (which could have easily been made detachable) and ejecting spent trounds by the revolving action of the cylinder. Is it a pistol? Is it a revolver? I'm pretty sure it's a handgun, unless you find the "carbine" variant...
And let's not forget that with a little more work, the Dardick design could become an automatic weapon with a rate of fire limited only by how fast you can spin the action(automatic electric wheelgun, anyone?)
What do we call a Dardick? It doesn't really have a chamber, per se. There is a cylinder of sorts - each "chamber" consists of two walls made up by the revolving section, with the third made up by the outside wall of the "cylinder" itself. Fed by an integral magazine (which could have easily been made detachable) and ejecting spent trounds by the revolving action of the cylinder. Is it a pistol? Is it a revolver? I'm pretty sure it's a handgun, unless you find the "carbine" variant...
And let's not forget that with a little more work, the Dardick design could become an automatic weapon with a rate of fire limited only by how fast you can spin the action(automatic electric wheelgun, anyone?)
They are what they are
They are what they are. a Pistol is a Pistol. It just happens that now there are 2 sub classes of pistols. Revolvers, and Semi-autos.
I have 2 handguns. A 22 Revolver, and a 9mm semi. It would be silly to say, i have one pistol, and one revolver. To me, it just sounds wrong. I have 2 pistols, a 22 revolver, and a 9mm semi.
They are what they are. a Pistol is a Pistol. It just happens that now there are 2 sub classes of pistols. Revolvers, and Semi-autos.
I have 2 handguns. A 22 Revolver, and a 9mm semi. It would be silly to say, i have one pistol, and one revolver. To me, it just sounds wrong. I have 2 pistols, a 22 revolver, and a 9mm semi.
AngusPodgorney
New member
"...What do we call a Dardick?
A Flop?
A Flop?
For the same reason longguns are no longer referred to as handguns or handgonnes> And the same reason some [eople will try to correct you if you call a "semi auto" and automatic. Our language is constantly changing to fit the constantly changing technology involved with living it.
A few years ago you would have had a revolver and an automatic