Why aren't double triggers more popular?

[Ricklin]

A safety on a trap gun is quite useless. The way the game is played there is no need for a safety, none whatsoever.

My 1918 LC Smith SBT has no safety at all, it was not manufactured with one. AFAIK all the SBT's from LC Smith have no safety.

Those old boys got a right, over a hundred years ago.

 

[44 AMP]

A safety on a trap gun is quite useless. The way the game is played there is no need for a safety, none whatsoever.

True, HOWEVER, having a safety on the gun means it can be used;/useful for other situations. Like taking the gun afield, hunting.

My Grandfather's Ithaca (1909) has a 3 position safety. Center is safe, forward is fire, which moves to safe when the action is opened, and all the way back, which is the "off" position, the gun fires, but the safety stays in the off position when the gun is opened. Pulling and holding both triggers, while closing the action, with the safety in its most rearward position lowers the hammers, leaving the gun uncocked, and ready for storage.

 

[Jim Watson]

I took the safety off my 1100 TA after the report of someone going down the row of trap guns in the rack and applying safeties. A substantial number of shooters did not check and lost their first target.

We had one guy who said a BT99 34" Full would knock a squirrel down out of a tall tree.
He got along without a safety catch.

 

[jaguarxk120]

All of the auto safety's on my O/U's are now manual.

If the safety is off it stays off till I put it on. It is a pain in the rear at the trap range
when the safety go's on when you open the gun.

 

[FITASC]

I agree, I have one gun with an auto safety, and it is the one I haven't shot in about a decade..............Not even my S&W Elite Gold SxS field gun has an auto safety....

 

[Jimbo-Indy]

It can get confusing. Of my two double trigger guns, the 1909 Ithaca Flues has the auto/manual selector but the 1939 Lefever Nitro Special (by Ithaca) has an auto only safety. My modern O/U has a manual safety/barrel selector. Seldom do I finish a round of trap without forgetting the Lafever's auto safety at least once. Really like the old Ithaca system, useful but simple.

 

[Ricklin]

Not my Elsie

My Elsie (LC Smith) has a 34" barrel, it does not go hunting. Besides it's too darn pretty for the field. Heck I won't even shoot it in the rain.
It's not exactly quick to the shoulder either, Long LOP, straight grip, and beavertail forend.

It only kills clay birds, it would kill em better if it was not choked so flamin tight. It's the factory original choke from 1918. Gotta center punch the birds and make smoke.
I just can't bring myself to alter it.

Heck unless the game bird was out a ways there would not be much left to eat.

 

[FITASC]

You might try shooting loads with fiber wads instead of plastic - that's what those old guns were designed (and choked) for way back then.

 

[pete2]

Double triggers bang my second finger and they are slower than a single trigger. Just not as good as a single trigger.

 

[Jim Watson]

My first (and only) double trigger shotgun is the war trophy* Verney Carron I bought at a soldier's estate sale for CAS. It locks up tight but has zero finish, so I did not mind having the chokes let out to .005" and the forcing cones reamed to more taper.

It only took me a few shoots to learn to shift triggers as fast as I could swing from target to target. I even shot a little Skeet with it and the triggers were not a limit on breaking doubles.

*I figure it was twice a war trophy; seized from a Frenchman by a German, confiscated from a German by an American.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Even with bird hunting... a bird pops up, are you going to have a thought process and decide which barrel/choke would be best? Nope, bird... safety off... shoot.

Actually, that is incorrect. Most SXS shotguns with two triggers are set up so the front trigger fires the right barrel and the rear trigger fires the left barrel. The right barrel usually had a relatively open choke while the left barrel had a relatively tight choke. I have a couple of old Stevens 311s. The right barrel has a modified choke, the left barrel has a full choke. The idea was if a bird flushed, you pulled the front trigger first, firing the more open choke. If a second shot was required you slid your finger back to the rear trigger firing the tighter choke, because the bird was usually farther away at this point. No thinking required at all, you fired the triggers from front to back, firing the more open choke first and the tighter choke second.

Speaking of competition, most guys in CAS who use a SXS a have one with double triggers. It is simple to slip the trigger finger back after firing the front trigger to the rear trigger. Hardly took me any time at all to learn it.

I have four old Stevens SXSs with double triggers. This one is my favorite. A sidelock hammered double, made around 1908 or so. Before I bought it somebody had cut the barrels down to 24", so both barrels are cylinder bore now. Doesn't matter too much in CAS, the targets are usually close enough so that any choke will hit them. This one is murder on flying poppers. I follow the popper up until it starts down again, then I fire as it falls in front of my muzzles. Works almost every time. Of course sometimes it is a bit difficult to see the targets because I only shoot this shotgun with Black Powder.

The other nice thing about two triggers is the mechanism is simpler. No recoil operated toggle to go out of whack, the hammers exposed or internal, are either cocked or they are not. And if something should happen to one of the locks, which has happened to me, I still have another barrel and trigger to keep shooting until I get a chance to fix the problem.

 

[FITASC]

The left barrel usually had a relatively open choke while the right barrel had a relatively tight choke.

You have that backwards - unless it is a driven bird gun...

 

[Screwball]

Actually, that is incorrect. Most SXS shotguns with two triggers are set up so the front trigger fires the right barrel and the rear trigger fires the left barrel. The left barrel usually had a relatively open choke while the right barrel had a relatively tight choke. I have a couple of old Stevens 311s. The right barrel has a modified choke, the left barrel has a full choke. The idea was if a bird flushed, you pulled the front trigger first, firing the more open choke. If a second shot was required you slid your finger back to the rear trigger firing the tighter choke, because the bird was usually farther away at this point. No thinking required at all, you fired the triggers from front to back, firing the more open choke first and the tighter choke second.

It would be incorrect if I was talking about double triggers...

Reread my post, was talking about single trigger O/Us, where the safety selects the first barrel to go off. If you are going to switch the selector to fire the correct barrel for the job upon a bird going up, you likely lost the bird before getting it ready to fire. It isn't as instinctive as taking the safety off, and firing.

 

[FITASC]

Reread my post, was talking about single trigger O/Us, where the safety selects the first barrel to go off. If you are going to switch the selector to fire the correct barrel for the job upon a bird going up, you likely lost the bird before getting it ready to fire. It isn't as instinctive as taking the safety off, and firing.

Not all O/Us have selective barrels; not all O/Us have the selector on the safety; not all O/Us with the selector on the safety switch require major movement - some just need a flick to one side.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

You have that backwards - unless it is a driven bird gun...

Thanks. Fixed it.

 

[Screwball]

Not all O/Us have selective barrels; not all O/Us have the selector on the safety; not all O/Us with the selector on the safety switch require major movement - some just need a flick to one side.

I never said all O/Us have selective barrels...

Nor did I say selectors have major movements to switch tubes...

Many do need to be in safe to change the barrel (never said all, either). But what I pointed out was it isn't an instinctive manipulation. If you are bird hunting, and a bird spooks up, you aren't going to tell yourself, "self, that bird is pretty close... my top barrel has a wider choke, so I need to push the safety to the left/right to choose that tube before I pull the trigger on this very fast moving bird." Whatever you have the gun set to will be fired when you flip the safety off.

Sorry, but if you are telling me that you hunt like that... you definitely have way too much time in the field. Definitely a lot more than I can put off to that. Driftwood Johnson's post showed that double triggered guns were setup in a way to make it more instinctive (pull first trigger first, close up).

But to bring it back to the OP, who asked about the use of double triggers in competition, which stemmed the tube selector topic. Problem is that you'd NEVER use it that way in any clay sport... for reasons that have gone over numerous times. When people call for the bird, they aren't going to change the barrel due to the angle the target is sent. They are going to acquire the target and shoot.

 

[44 AMP]

But what I pointed out was it isn't an instinctive manipulation.

What you're calling instinctive, is just a matter of what you have trained yourself to do. We call it instinctive when we have learned to do it below the level of conscious thought. It can even be a moderately complex task, using both feet and both hands in different ways at the same time. like driving a standard (stick) shift.

Instinctive actions can also be the wrong actions, IF you are using a system different from the one you practice with.

I had this lesson taught to me many decades ago, and it only cost a lost pheasant. Friend showed up at the farm, wanted to borrow a rifle, because he had seen a deer up the canyon, and only had his Browning Sweet 16 with birdshot. Asked me to go with him, and take his shotgun, in case we did flush some birds. For some reason I can no longer remember, I agreed.
No deer, but we did put up a pheasant. Three times, I punched the safety off, and pulled the trigger, without a shot firing as the bird flew off.

Would have had pheasant, if I had been carrying my Winchester. But, the Browning's safety was behind of the trigger, not in front, like my Winchester, and that's where my finger instinctively went, to the front of the trigger guard to push the safety off.

I tell this story often, mostly to the people who rotate the pistols they carry for self defense, using much different models with controls in different places, to illustrate that when carrying a gun you might need to use instinctively, carrying something you aren't really used to might not be a good idea.

 

[Doyle]

I also agree on the auto safety. I removed the one from my Marlin 90.

 

[Husqvarna]

I changed barrels when I first started (prefer the top barrel, with the lower for follow up/doubles)... never during the day. If you experiment, change between days so you don't have going from one to another effecting your "outcome.

and did someone tell you that you shouldn't do that?

that puts more stress on the action

 

[Jim Watson]

While the top barrel technically puts more stress on the receiver,
first, the gun is built to take it, else they would not build "top single" trap combos and second, it doesn't matter which ORDER you fire when you are shooting both barrels.