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Why are red dot optics not standard from the OEM?
- Thread starter rpenmanparker
- Start date
Rangerrich99
New member
I found these two videos interesting. I was wondering about possible issues with finding the dot on a pistol, which the first video addresses briefly. The second one has to do with a failure on the part of the red dot system itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WqTJKzo52Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bslw__XfnCo
At this point I'm leaning away from installing one of these type systems on one of my defensive handguns. YMMV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WqTJKzo52Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bslw__XfnCo
At this point I'm leaning away from installing one of these type systems on one of my defensive handguns. YMMV.
Mackie244Bud
New member
Rangerrich99,
This really is not about the OP's question of
BUT...
I will say that even though your 2 videos are from 2012, the first one is correct in a few points.
1) You want the Red Dot actually milled into your slide (not Dove Tailed in and a mounting plate sitting on top of the slide)
2) You want to have your Red Dot with Co-Witnessing Iron Sights.
3) With anything new you will have to train with your Red Dots..
However if you have good technique of raising your gun and lining it up with the Iron Sights, your Red Dot will be there.
And as everyone in almost ALL Red Dot videos say, "It get's really good fairly fast.
You can train with the gun empty and in the comfort of your home.
You had to learn to use the Iron Sights..Now train with the Red Dot.
In the 2nd video
1)Talking about the Red Dot going out.
Most of today's Red Dots have completely different electronics, built much more robust to take the jarring slide movement shot after shot.
2) Improved battery life & placement.
Red Dots on Pistols The Good & The Bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNH262vjKK4
Red Dot Sights on Carry Guns a Bad Idea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD95JL6Zhp8
Red Dots are not for everyone, myself I really like it on my Carry P320.
There are many good points in regard to using a Red Dot.
The worst negative is that it won't be on.
In 2500 rounds with my P320's Romeo 1 it has yet to not be there for me.
There was a period of time that my Romeo 1 was out at the beginning but it was because I buggered the plastic battery cover threads.
A call to Sig customer support and a new battery cover was sent to me "Next Day" for no charge!
A nice feature of Sig's Romeo 1 is that once the gun sit's motionless for 90 seconds, the Red Dot turns off to save battery life.
Pick up the P320 and the Red Dot is instant on.
Lastly youtube is loaded with videos concerning Red Dots so there is not a possibility of you being mis-informed or unaware.
Mackie244 / Bud
This really is not about the OP's question of
Why are red dot optics not standard from the OEM?
BUT...
I will say that even though your 2 videos are from 2012, the first one is correct in a few points.
1) You want the Red Dot actually milled into your slide (not Dove Tailed in and a mounting plate sitting on top of the slide)
2) You want to have your Red Dot with Co-Witnessing Iron Sights.
3) With anything new you will have to train with your Red Dots..
However if you have good technique of raising your gun and lining it up with the Iron Sights, your Red Dot will be there.
And as everyone in almost ALL Red Dot videos say, "It get's really good fairly fast.
You can train with the gun empty and in the comfort of your home.
You had to learn to use the Iron Sights..Now train with the Red Dot.
In the 2nd video
1)Talking about the Red Dot going out.
Most of today's Red Dots have completely different electronics, built much more robust to take the jarring slide movement shot after shot.
2) Improved battery life & placement.
Red Dots on Pistols The Good & The Bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNH262vjKK4
Red Dot Sights on Carry Guns a Bad Idea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD95JL6Zhp8
Red Dots are not for everyone, myself I really like it on my Carry P320.
There are many good points in regard to using a Red Dot.
The worst negative is that it won't be on.
In 2500 rounds with my P320's Romeo 1 it has yet to not be there for me.
There was a period of time that my Romeo 1 was out at the beginning but it was because I buggered the plastic battery cover threads.
A call to Sig customer support and a new battery cover was sent to me "Next Day" for no charge!
A nice feature of Sig's Romeo 1 is that once the gun sit's motionless for 90 seconds, the Red Dot turns off to save battery life.
Pick up the P320 and the Red Dot is instant on.
Lastly youtube is loaded with videos concerning Red Dots so there is not a possibility of you being mis-informed or unaware.
Mackie244 / Bud
Last edited:
Rangerrich99
New member
As you have had your red dot for a while let me ask a couple questions. Have you tried using it one-handed both strong hand and weak hand? Have you tried using it from non-typical positions, like 45 degrees off vertical, very close to your body/face, from your back, and so forth?Rangerrich99,
This really is not about the OP's question of
BUT...
I will say that even though your 2 videos are from 2012, the first one is correct in a few points.
1) You want the Red Dot actually milled into your slide (not Dove Tailed in and a mounting plate sitting on top of the slide)
2) You want to have your Red Dot with Co-Witnessing Iron Sights.
3) With anything new you will have to train with your Red Dots..
However if you have good technique of raising your gun and lining it up with the Iron Sights, your Red Dot will be there.
And as everyone in almost ALL Red Dot videos say, "It get's really good fairly fast.
You can train with the gun empty and in the comfort of your home.
You had to learn to use the Iron Sights..Now train with the Red Dot.
In the 2nd video
1)Talking about the Red Dot going out.
Most of today's Red Dots have completely different electronics, built much more robust to take the jarring slide movement shot after shot.
2) Improved battery life & placement.
Red Dots on Pistols The Good & The Bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNH262vjKK4
Red Dot Sights on Carry Guns a Bad Idea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD95JL6Zhp8
Red Dots are not for everyone, myself I really like it on my Carry P320.
There are many good points in regard to using a Red Dot.
The worst negative is that it won't be on.
In 2500 rounds with my P320 Romeo 1 it has yet to not be there for me.
A nice feature of Sig's Romeo 1 is that once the gun sit's motionless for 90 seconds, the Red Dot turns off to save battery life.
Pick up the P320 and the Red Dot is instant on.
Lastly youtube is loaded with videos concerning Red Dots so there is not a possibility of you being mis-informed or unaware.
Mackie244 / Bud
I ask because I noticed recently that with my red dot on my AR-15 using it from non-typical positions sometimes made finding the dot difficult. Fortunately I could still see my irons so I just shot the drill anyway, but I was wondering if the same kinds of issues were possible with a handgun red dot.
Mackie244Bud
New member
Hi RangerRich99
The short answer is...No
I have not..though I have not tried that with Iron Sights.
All of my shooting has been in the dual hands form = Hip, Chest and press Out in front.
However if I grab my gun while sitting here now...
Acquiring the Red Dot with my P320 either in my single Right hand and then Left hand I do not have a problem sighting.
I could shoot this way at the range
I can also put my gun 45 degrees up or down and as long as I can sight in (Iron Sight-wise) the Red Dot is always there.
If I needed I could do this shooting routine and improve my aim.
But then again I am used to my Red Dot, I've had my P320 for a year.
After awhile it (red dot) really is just there without thinking.
Through 250 rounds today at the range the P320 comes up and I'm good to go..there is no searching for the red dot.
What you can do with your Irons you can do even better with the Red Dot.
Hence Red Dot's in competition shooting.
I'm not quite sure what you mean about
If you mean my gun is so close to my body that I can't even sight it in with Irons, neither can I Red Dot.
If I had to shoot coming out of my holster because a threat is to close and I can't get the gun up to sight at all.
I just have to do the best I can.
The deal with Red Dots is that if you have good technique sighting in your gun's Iron Sights then the Red Dot will naturally be there, then fine tune shooting with your Red Dot.
New shooters that are still learning how to use the guns Iron sights will be the persons searching for the Red Dot.
Because their sighting technique is so poor the gun is not positioned correctly per the guns sights.
It is cocked up or down or left or right it's no wonder that the Red Dot is not there.
If they are searching for the red dot and once it comes into the sight glass Oh, look, there is the Iron sights lining up as well
It's telling you..Hey dude (or dudette) why don't you get your gun sighted in correctly and then I'll make an appearance! LOL!
As you look down your gun and the front sight lays in your rear sight the red dot should be right on top of the front sight.
You know how to quickly acquire that sight picture.
With time you will stop using the Irons and just use the Red Dot.
I put My Red Dot in the middle of my sight glass.
As you have had your red dot for a while let me ask a couple questions. Have you tried using it one-handed both strong hand and weak hand? Have you tried using it from non-typical positions, like 45 degrees off vertical, very close to your body/face, from your back, and so forth?
The short answer is...No
I have not..though I have not tried that with Iron Sights.
All of my shooting has been in the dual hands form = Hip, Chest and press Out in front.
However if I grab my gun while sitting here now...
Acquiring the Red Dot with my P320 either in my single Right hand and then Left hand I do not have a problem sighting.
I could shoot this way at the range
I can also put my gun 45 degrees up or down and as long as I can sight in (Iron Sight-wise) the Red Dot is always there.
If I needed I could do this shooting routine and improve my aim.
But then again I am used to my Red Dot, I've had my P320 for a year.
After awhile it (red dot) really is just there without thinking.
Through 250 rounds today at the range the P320 comes up and I'm good to go..there is no searching for the red dot.
What you can do with your Irons you can do even better with the Red Dot.
Hence Red Dot's in competition shooting.
I'm not quite sure what you mean about
very close to your body/face, from your back, and so forth
If you mean my gun is so close to my body that I can't even sight it in with Irons, neither can I Red Dot.
If I had to shoot coming out of my holster because a threat is to close and I can't get the gun up to sight at all.
I just have to do the best I can.
The deal with Red Dots is that if you have good technique sighting in your gun's Iron Sights then the Red Dot will naturally be there, then fine tune shooting with your Red Dot.
New shooters that are still learning how to use the guns Iron sights will be the persons searching for the Red Dot.
Because their sighting technique is so poor the gun is not positioned correctly per the guns sights.
It is cocked up or down or left or right it's no wonder that the Red Dot is not there.
If they are searching for the red dot and once it comes into the sight glass Oh, look, there is the Iron sights lining up as well
It's telling you..Hey dude (or dudette) why don't you get your gun sighted in correctly and then I'll make an appearance! LOL!
As you look down your gun and the front sight lays in your rear sight the red dot should be right on top of the front sight.
You know how to quickly acquire that sight picture.
With time you will stop using the Irons and just use the Red Dot.
I put My Red Dot in the middle of my sight glass.
Rangerrich99
New member
Okay, good to know. I watched a couple guys at my last defensive handgun class have some trouble finding their red dots so I was wondering if that was normal.
What I meant was holding the gun at about half the distance from straight out. Where you can still the sights but you've brought the gun closer to your chest.
From the back: laying on your back, as if you've been pushed down or you had to fall back for some reason.
What I meant was holding the gun at about half the distance from straight out. Where you can still the sights but you've brought the gun closer to your chest.
From the back: laying on your back, as if you've been pushed down or you had to fall back for some reason.
I'm no handgun expert so i'm not going to go all technical armchair commando on the subject. I can only state what I observed in simplistic terms. My takeaway from running both on my FNX45 is that when I bring up a traditional fixed sight handgun i'm quickly merging a 2 plane sight system that is progressive. Progressive meaning the 2 different sight positions are very easy to merge into the correct line of sight and seems to just be a natural muscle memory progression into alignment. What I found with my dot is the fact that as you bring the sight into the same alignment and you have nothing "progressive" to begin your alignment. You are basically looking at a blank screen first, then acquire to dot, then place the dot on your target. Almost seems to me like with a dot there is an extra step involved. No doubt if I were to pursue a dot system I would seek professional training but i'm just throwing out my initial conclusions from an amateur handgun enthusiast's perspective.
Mackie244Bud
New member
Try watching these videos and see if you start to get the picture...
Original Red Dot: Training to See the Dot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbf4MqGHJw
Original Red Dot: Learning Red Dot Pistol Skills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOvji8a0Hc
Original Red Dot: Training to See the Dot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEbf4MqGHJw
Original Red Dot: Learning Red Dot Pistol Skills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XOvji8a0Hc
rpenmanparker
New member
That is actually a good explanation of the situation. It is like iron sights are analog while red dots are digital, i.e. either 0 or 1, either off or on. However over a very short time you should be able to always start from either “on” or the dot will be off screen in the same area every time so that you know exactly how to quickly find it.
gunrunner1
New member
Because of personal preference. I would rather that they not come with a red dot since I may not want the red dot they would put on it.
The idea that results obtained with a red dot aren't "real" or as praise-worthy as with iron sights is BS. Can you say luddite?
As for where to put your money in a match between red dots and irons, what do you think is happening every day in Afghanistan, etc.? And the money is on red dots. Who do you think proved out red dots in the first place? Special ops folks. You gonna argue with them?
The battery life is so long on modern red dots that power failure is a non issue. If you left the optic always on and changed the battery every month, you would spend almost nothing and still have essentially no risk of failure. Besides there are very good co-witnessing mount options available to make battery failure of no consequence.
If you knew all the answers then why did you ask the question? Seems that most just want others to validate what they already think.