Why are HK P7s $1k+???

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oktagon

Moderator
The "highest" was a typo. What I ment was tough. I am trying to work as well you know :)

I am not an engineer, so my knolege of metalurgy is on very deletant level.
In my phone conversation with Hk technician about a year ago, this question came up, and I thought that P7s are made of 4140, but he said that I was wrong and they make them from H13. Knowing that H13 is instrumental steel, and that P7s are dificult to machine, I put 2 and 2 together. It appears that I got 5.
Sorry for the confusion.
 
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Peter M. Eick

New member
Mylhouse,

I have three P7PSP's and 3 Baer's (including one of his 1.5" guarantee models), so I think I have a marginally statistically sound measure of the tightness of the barrel to frame fit when in battery.

I think that the only way to move the barrel on the frame of my p7's is with a very big hammer (since it is pinned and sleeved to the frame). The Baer's, although very very tight, can be perceptibly moved with a great deal of force. They do not rattle around like my glock, but I am moving the barrel enough to realize I am doing it.

So to me the Baer's are not as tight as the P7.

Now as for accuracy, I can shoot the Baer 10mm heavyweight monolith off a rest more accurate then the p7, but I can freehand the p7 better then the monolith. The other Baer's are good, but not as accurate as the P7 freehand.

So, to me the P7 is as accurate as my Baer's. This is certainly not a slight of the Baer's, I will certainly buy a fourth one, and I will probably not buy a fourth P7.

This is not meant as a flame or such, but your comment deserved a reply.
 
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hksigwalther

New member
"HK had to design and make the tooling, not the tool. No manufacturer builds there own special mills, lathes, etc. to produce a product, unless it is very specialized (like the chunnel drills, or the space shuttle) and I seriously doubt the P7 requires tooling that specialized."

No, HK also made the machines. The mills, the lathes, etc. that made the guns. The HK Machine Tool Division that made the equipment was sold off under British rule.
 
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Mylhouse

New member
Peter,

I appreciate the reply. I still don't understand where you are coming from, however. I don't see how the BARREL TO FRAME fit has anything to do with the accuracy equation. The sights are on the slide, and there is no way in my mind that the slide-to-frame fit on a P7 is as tight as a Les Baer. From a machine rest (Ransom) where the FRAME is mounted into the machine, I can see the P7 having better accuracy, because the sights don't matter. But from free hand and/or sandbagged shooting, I would think the Les Baer would be clearly superior, since the barrel-to-slide fit would be tighter and the sights WOULD come into play.

Mind you I'm not a P7 basher. I'm actually an admirer. However, I haven't seen any P7 or any other production line pistol that can match the precision and quality of a custom/semi-custom hand-built handgun.
 
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Oris

Moderator
Octagon

O.K., it got expalined. BTW, I'm pretty sure, although I never
saw detail prints of P7, that it is not made from H13, possibly only 1 or 2 parts, but I doubt even that. I think your assumption about 4140 or similar quality German steel may be much closer to the truth. It's just plain irrational to use H13 to make pistols, and Germans are rational people.
 
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oktagon

Moderator
Oris,

I also think that it is more likely that P7s are made of 4140 forgings, but they must heat treat differently then most other manufacturers, the darn things are very hard, but not fragile. Also if I am not mistaking the slides are made from the different steel then frames, higher molybdenium content may be?
I don't feel like cuting a piece of P7 off and having it burned in the spectrograph, so I guess the question will remain standing.
 
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Lavan

New member
It's worth it because anyone who snatches it from you will never figure out how to shoot the non-intuitive thing.
I have had too much bullseye shooting to be able to adjust to a gun that needs GRIP to make it ready. I would rather have the Glock.
Other than that, it is GERMAN. Ach! Mercedes. BMW. PPK. Zeiss.

Viddout da cherman marck on der receivenschutzenversplatten, it vud only be $400.
 
D

don't shoot it's me

New member
Bad guy asking for your wallet...................$60
BVDs stained from looking down barrel......$2.95
Seizing a moment and capping him 9 times
from your P7.....................................Priceless

Of course, you get the $60 back....
 
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hksigwalther

New member
"the best way to end this thread would be to agree that the P7 is not worth 1,000 bucks....le's say 999.00..."

Huh. At the last gun show I went to last Satruday, a dealer was selling his unfired P7 (from personal collection) for $999.00.:eek:
 
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Herr Walther

New member
Brian, how much do you think a Walther P88 is going for these days?

They charge that much because they know there are descriminating buyers out there willing to pay for a quality machined, well thought out, proven design of German engineering.

If you can't, or don't want to play with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

Plenty of Rugers out there.
 
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Brian Busch

New member
"Herr Walther"-

Perhaps you should read the thread, and try to comprehend the content and spirit of what and why I posted it before you make snide remarks and personal attacks.

-BB
 
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Peter M. Eick

New member
Mylhouse,

You make some very valid points. My experience is to the contrary, but your points are valid.

How about a draw?

I accept you have good points, and you except that I can shoot the P7 better then my Baers.

Pete
 
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Peter M. Eick

New member
Mylhouse,

If it is a "draw" I go for the p7. I find that it is instinctive for me to grab, grip and fire in one smooth motion. So if "tshtf" it will be the P7. (but I really might like the power of the 10mm Baer!!!!)

What about yourself???
 
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Mylhouse

New member
Well, I just sold my P7, so.....

I would probably reach for my USPF 45. It shoots the best and most predictably in my hands , and I have always been most comfortable with DA/SA autos. The P7 just didn't work for me as well as I thought it would (main thing being that the grip wasn't comfortable for my hand...I prefer thicker-gripped pistols).
Now if I had your Baer Monolith 10mm, I'd be hard-pressed not to reach for that!!! Not only could I pick which eye-socket to put the burning slug in, but I could send his brains into the next county!
:D
 
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1/504PIR

New member
So then what might a PSP, SN# 149 go for ? Just curious, it's not for sale, as the gov't doesn't surplus out weapons these days. Shame huh ?
 
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Sambonator

New member
I like my P7M13 but I don't like to fire it. I could never get used to the way it punishes the web of my hand between thumb and index finger. I'm in pain after just a couple of clips.

I can shoot my USP .45 all day without problems, my P99, etc.
I don't understand why it hurts so much to fire this pistol. My hand still hurts from firing the P7 yesterday. Maybe its the gas-retard system combined with the flat backstrap...

Sam
 
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