If you can go to prison for using factory ammo in a pro-gun state than what difference does it make if you use reloads? If the prosecuter is out to get you he's going to find something to demonize whether you were shooting reloaded JHPs in .500 Magnum or soft foam nerf darts straight out of their factory packaging.
Who carry's reloads for CCW?
- Thread starter onlybrowning
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I tote a .45 ACP and I carry reloads in it as I have learned from the school of hard knocks to pay attention to reloading and then run and cycle my reloads through the pistol to eliminate any doubt per chambering, ejection, whatever.
Mine are 230 grain full jacketed, pushed out of the tube by either weighed or measured 5 grains of Bullseye powder. It works, I am not going to change it.
Mine are 230 grain full jacketed, pushed out of the tube by either weighed or measured 5 grains of Bullseye powder. It works, I am not going to change it.
What's this. I can get sued for using handloads in a good shooting. What is this world coming to. I suppose the next thing you know I'll have to dig the garlic outa the hollow points !!!
Every town in every state that has a phone book also has a slew of personal injury attorneys listed in the yellow pages. And guess what. They're just waiting to help some poor sole with a bullet hole. And they will help him. But they need something to hang their hat on. If not handloads then the bullet was too big, or too fast or too small, a 22 maybe. Just like the alleged mafia hit men used to use. Or there was too many hits, or you practiced too much. They will throw more stuff around than Geraldo himself. And they will hope some dope catches just a little. You will have a much better chance of coming out ahead if the shooting was right, both morally and legally. You're CCW'ing to protect yours or someone else’s life. If you absolutely have to use it make sure you're right. If you are constantly worrying about repercussions after a shooting you may as well leave your weapon at home. You would probably be no good in a shooting anyway.
The only way you are guaranteed not to be sued is of course if you yourself are a street person living on a small disability check. There's no money in it.
Every town in every state that has a phone book also has a slew of personal injury attorneys listed in the yellow pages. And guess what. They're just waiting to help some poor sole with a bullet hole. And they will help him. But they need something to hang their hat on. If not handloads then the bullet was too big, or too fast or too small, a 22 maybe. Just like the alleged mafia hit men used to use. Or there was too many hits, or you practiced too much. They will throw more stuff around than Geraldo himself. And they will hope some dope catches just a little. You will have a much better chance of coming out ahead if the shooting was right, both morally and legally. You're CCW'ing to protect yours or someone else’s life. If you absolutely have to use it make sure you're right. If you are constantly worrying about repercussions after a shooting you may as well leave your weapon at home. You would probably be no good in a shooting anyway.
The only way you are guaranteed not to be sued is of course if you yourself are a street person living on a small disability check. There's no money in it.
oldbillthundercheif
Moderator
One fellow I read about recently had loaded some extremely mild .38 rounds for his recoil-sensitive girlfriend...
She shot herself. When the cops went to do powder-burn tests, they tested the ammo that had originally been loaded in those cases (.38 +P). To achieve similar powder-burns they had to be quite far away and you can guess what happened next.
He was charged with murder.
It's only one case, but it shows how badly things can go when there are any questionable factors in a shooting investigation. It seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth...
She shot herself. When the cops went to do powder-burn tests, they tested the ammo that had originally been loaded in those cases (.38 +P). To achieve similar powder-burns they had to be quite far away and you can guess what happened next.
He was charged with murder.
It's only one case, but it shows how badly things can go when there are any questionable factors in a shooting investigation. It seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth...
Living in the Retardoland of Illinois I don't get the choice to carry. I've made enough reloads for all my guns I would carry that I wouldn't even hesitate to do it, except for one little problem. I can see an overzelous DA trying to make a name for himself prosecuting me for intentionally using bullets designed to kill. I have actually heard of trials where this happened. As if any bullet used isn't meant to kill.Think it won't happen? How about the DA who put the 3 Duke players on trial, even though the DNA evidence said none of them did anything.
I guess the State AG is going to go after the DA, now.
I guess the State AG is going to go after the DA, now.
If you can't afford ONE box of factory premium ammo per year for your carry gun, how can you afford the tools to reload????
This isn't rocket science or brain surgery folks. If you want advice on reloading, you consult the people who write reloading manuals, because they're the experts in their field.
If you want legal advice you listen to attorneys for the same reason. I've had at least a dozen attorneys tell me not to carry handloads. Includong one district attorney, (Prosecutor) and an ADA who is now a judge. This is THEIR field, and they're the experts here! Why shouldn't I listen to them?
This isn't rocket science or brain surgery folks. If you want advice on reloading, you consult the people who write reloading manuals, because they're the experts in their field.
If you want legal advice you listen to attorneys for the same reason. I've had at least a dozen attorneys tell me not to carry handloads. Includong one district attorney, (Prosecutor) and an ADA who is now a judge. This is THEIR field, and they're the experts here! Why shouldn't I listen to them?
Because in their field in every case half of them were wrong
Now, before you go into attack mode, I will say that if you do use handloads in a shooting and end up in civil court it will no doubt become part of the argument. It is also reasonable to assume that if your handloads approach or meet factory ballistics the impact at trial would be minimal. However, I do not believe that if all other aspects of the shooting were above board and completely reasonable you would be successfully sued simply and solely because a handload was used.
One of the problems with this debate is there isn't a large sample of CCW shooting cases. There are several cases of the burglar breaking in and being shot with the trusty 30-30 that was handy to get too. I don't think that is viewed the same as a shooting by a CCW that carries 24/7 expecting trouble at every turn.
"Lawyer bashing" is fun.
and I engage in it quite frequently myself. But in the court room, one of the "winners" is going to be a lawyer.
I wouldn't want a lawyer removing my gall bladder, I'd go to a surgeon. But I wouldn't want that surgeon defending me in court.
And I sure as heck wouldn't want "ol' Bubba" from the gun shop telling the jury **'bout them thar sooperdooper "death dealing handloads"** that I reloaded from his special recipe!
Boy that is for sure and for certain. Handload sounds worse than reloads. And both sound worse than factory. Kinda like a stabbing with a dagger and a stabbing with a pocket knife.
Just like twisting statistics around twisting words around can be effective. And attorneys are universally known to be good at that. And that's not bashing, that's a compliment.
Latter
OWB Suggestions for my 642
Hi All
What is your fave OWB holster for your 642 snubby? I have a Bob Mika pocket holster and a Galco stow-n-go which is great for carrying at 1:00 with my loose khakis. With my dress suit I'd like to try OWB since I will have the suit jacket on. Thanks!
Hi All
What is your fave OWB holster for your 642 snubby? I have a Bob Mika pocket holster and a Galco stow-n-go which is great for carrying at 1:00 with my loose khakis. With my dress suit I'd like to try OWB since I will have the suit jacket on. Thanks!
stellarpod
New member
All lawyer hype aside; it amazes me that some of those who frequent this forum, while expounding the positive aspects of self-reliance in regards to training in tactics, choice of firearms, gunsmithing, etc. feel compelled to draw a line for self-reliance where ammunition is involved.
I pride myself on my ability to consistently produce ammunition that is equal to or better than factory in regards to accuracy, reliability and most importantly safety. If I should find myself in a situation where I have to defend myself in court after having defended myself with a firearm I am perfectly prepared to do so.
To those who say that reloaded ammunition just gives the lawyer one more thing to pick on, I say why stop there? Perhaps we shouldn't engage in specialized tactical training either, as it might be portrayed in court as a sign of an overtly-aggresive gunfighter mentality. Or maybe we should be content with a .38 Special, as a .357 just "proves we want to kill someone".
My point is this: If you find yourself in a courtroom trying to defend a firearms charge you're going to have a multitude of issues with which to deal - some real and many contrived. We all draw a line in the sand beyond which we're not willing to compromise. I respect those who draw it at feeling the need to use only factory ammo, whether that be due to their inability to reload or their unwillingness or uncomfort with doing so (it's not everyone's cup of tea). Please do me the favor of reciprocating with a proper measure of respect for my decision to maintain my self-reliant step of using what I perceive to be superior ammunition - that which comes from my own reloading bench and which I know and trust intimately.
stellarpod
I pride myself on my ability to consistently produce ammunition that is equal to or better than factory in regards to accuracy, reliability and most importantly safety. If I should find myself in a situation where I have to defend myself in court after having defended myself with a firearm I am perfectly prepared to do so.
To those who say that reloaded ammunition just gives the lawyer one more thing to pick on, I say why stop there? Perhaps we shouldn't engage in specialized tactical training either, as it might be portrayed in court as a sign of an overtly-aggresive gunfighter mentality. Or maybe we should be content with a .38 Special, as a .357 just "proves we want to kill someone".
My point is this: If you find yourself in a courtroom trying to defend a firearms charge you're going to have a multitude of issues with which to deal - some real and many contrived. We all draw a line in the sand beyond which we're not willing to compromise. I respect those who draw it at feeling the need to use only factory ammo, whether that be due to their inability to reload or their unwillingness or uncomfort with doing so (it's not everyone's cup of tea). Please do me the favor of reciprocating with a proper measure of respect for my decision to maintain my self-reliant step of using what I perceive to be superior ammunition - that which comes from my own reloading bench and which I know and trust intimately.
stellarpod
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