Which Rifle?
- Thread starter amprecon
- Start date
bamaranger
New member
Whelen
Ahh...........but not .35 Whelen, but a Whelen quote, ...."the 30'06 is never a poor choice..." or words to that effect. Well, at least I think it was Whelen......maybe it was Askins?
Anyhow.....
And, we have space bullets these days to make it even better. And if you can't find the premium space bullets, the big traditional cup and core 180, 200 and 220's will suffice like they did in days past. As much as I like the .308.....I don't ever expect to clobber anything bigger than maybe a big boar hog someday. Were I expecting to shoot all the really big game mentioned by the OP, the '06, with its greater powder capacity and higher velocity as a general rule, would be the route I would go.
I'm with Pathfinder regards detachable mags on a hunting rifle. Just something to misplace, damage or have get away at the wrong time. I'm not even sure I like hinged flooplates, but they do allow a bit of ease for cleaning and a field degunk. Oh sure, I have some hunting rifles with detach mags.......but if I can load/unload the bolt rifle from the top....I seldom pop the magazine. As an example, I once stripped a mag equipped Savage 110....simple you'd think. But I got the side mounted mag release button goobered somehow in reassembly, .....and got the mag in....but there it stayed. Till I got the mag out and the release button squared away....I'd boogered the mag pretty good. I had a spare, but the whole apparatus was just something else to go wrong.
Fixed 4x.......good for you, I'm a fixed power guy myself.
Ahh...........but not .35 Whelen, but a Whelen quote, ...."the 30'06 is never a poor choice..." or words to that effect. Well, at least I think it was Whelen......maybe it was Askins?
Anyhow.....
And, we have space bullets these days to make it even better. And if you can't find the premium space bullets, the big traditional cup and core 180, 200 and 220's will suffice like they did in days past. As much as I like the .308.....I don't ever expect to clobber anything bigger than maybe a big boar hog someday. Were I expecting to shoot all the really big game mentioned by the OP, the '06, with its greater powder capacity and higher velocity as a general rule, would be the route I would go.
I'm with Pathfinder regards detachable mags on a hunting rifle. Just something to misplace, damage or have get away at the wrong time. I'm not even sure I like hinged flooplates, but they do allow a bit of ease for cleaning and a field degunk. Oh sure, I have some hunting rifles with detach mags.......but if I can load/unload the bolt rifle from the top....I seldom pop the magazine. As an example, I once stripped a mag equipped Savage 110....simple you'd think. But I got the side mounted mag release button goobered somehow in reassembly, .....and got the mag in....but there it stayed. Till I got the mag out and the release button squared away....I'd boogered the mag pretty good. I had a spare, but the whole apparatus was just something else to go wrong.
Fixed 4x.......good for you, I'm a fixed power guy myself.
I like a lot of the selections on your poll. The .338-06 is my favorite big game rifle, and I have several others. That said, I am outfitting my boys with a brace of bolt actions, one in .243 Win and one in .30-06, each getting one of my first set that I hunted with. The .30-06 is a very versatile cartridge and if we did not hunt Pronghorn and predators, I would skip the .243Win.
The two bolt actions I like right now are the Ruger American and the Tikka T3. I think those are two of the best value, set of features, hunting rifles on the market right now.
The two bolt actions I like right now are the Ruger American and the Tikka T3. I think those are two of the best value, set of features, hunting rifles on the market right now.
I must say, choosing a new rifle can be daunting when you want to be sure you are picking the right one without handling and shooting them firsthand. I have used all the action types, just not the particular ones I have been considering here.
The first step is to choose the right caliber for your applications and I feel that while there are better calibers for the big brownies, for most applications the .30-06 is the best overall choice as ammo is readily available almost everywhere and a rifle with less powerful ammo is better than a rifle without magnum or niche caliber ammo.
The next step was to choose the appropriate action, the single action, while rugged, doesn't allow for quick follow up shots if necessary.
The pump action is a complicated design comparatively speaking and doesn't allow for easy access to the action or breakdown for in-depth cleaning in the field with limited or no cleaning supplies.
The lever action, while probably simpler in design than a pump still has an enclosed receiver, making it harder to access or to give a more thorough cleaning and I'm not sure you can even remove the bolt to break down and clean if required. I also feel that the lever lends itself to easy damage if left extended and it were to have something fall on it, such as the user.
I feel the pump and levers would be harder to get back into action should one drop it into a muddy puddle, their more complicated designs with enclosed receiver would make them harder to get clean enough to use with confidence.
I feel the the bolt action is the most reliable with the fewest parts and most rugged design with less to possibly go wrong. The bolt is easily removed and when removed gives total access to the action, the action is as simple as a rock and it is a repeater albeit slightly slower than the other types.
Then the challenge becomes which bolt action out of the hundreds of makes and models available. As most people I am also concerned with cost to a point. If it costs more to get the attributes I require, then so be it.
Narrowing the caliber down did help, but not by a significant margin. So I began searching via the qualities I wanted in a bolt-action which were detachable magazine and a 60 degree bolt throw. This narrowed the field down significantly as I could only find short throw bolts made by Sako, Tikka, Browning and the new Winchester XPR's.
I liked the XPR, it has short bolt throw and detachable magazines and the price is very right, but they are only available in 24" barrel lengths which I find a tad too long for my tastes.
The Sako and Tikka line of rifles appealed to me as well as they have a stellar reputation, but they use some sort of mutant bolt, half control-feed, half push-feed. But that wasn't the deal killer, reviews of their detachable magazine and it's difficultly in installation and removal steered me away from them.
Of the Browning X Bolt models that are offered I prefer the Browning X Bolt Hunter Full Line Dealer with raised cheek piece.
However, I am having a hard time finding this particular model available anywhere, Item Number 035281226, UPC 023614397243.
What a journey this has been, but I feel confident that after much diligence, reviews and comparisons, that this rifle would suit most of my hunting needs with reliability, ruggedness, simplicity, ease of cleaning, accuracy and effectiveness and topped with a fixed 4x scope would make it The Hunting Rifle.
The first step is to choose the right caliber for your applications and I feel that while there are better calibers for the big brownies, for most applications the .30-06 is the best overall choice as ammo is readily available almost everywhere and a rifle with less powerful ammo is better than a rifle without magnum or niche caliber ammo.
The next step was to choose the appropriate action, the single action, while rugged, doesn't allow for quick follow up shots if necessary.
The pump action is a complicated design comparatively speaking and doesn't allow for easy access to the action or breakdown for in-depth cleaning in the field with limited or no cleaning supplies.
The lever action, while probably simpler in design than a pump still has an enclosed receiver, making it harder to access or to give a more thorough cleaning and I'm not sure you can even remove the bolt to break down and clean if required. I also feel that the lever lends itself to easy damage if left extended and it were to have something fall on it, such as the user.
I feel the pump and levers would be harder to get back into action should one drop it into a muddy puddle, their more complicated designs with enclosed receiver would make them harder to get clean enough to use with confidence.
I feel the the bolt action is the most reliable with the fewest parts and most rugged design with less to possibly go wrong. The bolt is easily removed and when removed gives total access to the action, the action is as simple as a rock and it is a repeater albeit slightly slower than the other types.
Then the challenge becomes which bolt action out of the hundreds of makes and models available. As most people I am also concerned with cost to a point. If it costs more to get the attributes I require, then so be it.
Narrowing the caliber down did help, but not by a significant margin. So I began searching via the qualities I wanted in a bolt-action which were detachable magazine and a 60 degree bolt throw. This narrowed the field down significantly as I could only find short throw bolts made by Sako, Tikka, Browning and the new Winchester XPR's.
I liked the XPR, it has short bolt throw and detachable magazines and the price is very right, but they are only available in 24" barrel lengths which I find a tad too long for my tastes.
The Sako and Tikka line of rifles appealed to me as well as they have a stellar reputation, but they use some sort of mutant bolt, half control-feed, half push-feed. But that wasn't the deal killer, reviews of their detachable magazine and it's difficultly in installation and removal steered me away from them.
Of the Browning X Bolt models that are offered I prefer the Browning X Bolt Hunter Full Line Dealer with raised cheek piece.
However, I am having a hard time finding this particular model available anywhere, Item Number 035281226, UPC 023614397243.
What a journey this has been, but I feel confident that after much diligence, reviews and comparisons, that this rifle would suit most of my hunting needs with reliability, ruggedness, simplicity, ease of cleaning, accuracy and effectiveness and topped with a fixed 4x scope would make it The Hunting Rifle.
ammo.crafter
New member
Rifle actions
Very interesting comments, indeed.
We all have our own preferences and comfort zones.
I shoot a Contender (21-inch barrel) in .358 Bellm for moose with success. With practice, follow up shot(s) become natural.
(FYI, .358 Bellm is made by necking down .444 Marlin shells to .35 caliber.)
Very interesting comments, indeed.
We all have our own preferences and comfort zones.
I shoot a Contender (21-inch barrel) in .358 Bellm for moose with success. With practice, follow up shot(s) become natural.
(FYI, .358 Bellm is made by necking down .444 Marlin shells to .35 caliber.)
Savage rifles are cheap, accurate, easy to re-barrel, and have horrible feel to the actions. Personally the feel annoys me so much I won't touch them.
Back to the original question, the 7600 is unreliable junk.
In terms of caliber, the only one I would consider for your stated application is .35 Whelen or .338-06. The great bears just demand more gun than a .30-06 in my opinion. Lots of people will tell you different. They also tend to be selling .30-06s, which goes to motive. Ample real world experience with the .35 Whelen and 9.3x62 (its European ballistic twin) shows they have much better performance on dangerous game than .30-06.
The problem is, the only thing off that list available in .35 Whelen is the 7600. The .338 federal is pretty much DOA. Personally I'd get a Montana Rifle Co 1999 in .35 Whelen. It's a reliable action, in the right caliber, for a reasonable price. There are 4, including one in a nice carbon fiber stock, on gunbroker now.
Back to the original question, the 7600 is unreliable junk.
In terms of caliber, the only one I would consider for your stated application is .35 Whelen or .338-06. The great bears just demand more gun than a .30-06 in my opinion. Lots of people will tell you different. They also tend to be selling .30-06s, which goes to motive. Ample real world experience with the .35 Whelen and 9.3x62 (its European ballistic twin) shows they have much better performance on dangerous game than .30-06.
The problem is, the only thing off that list available in .35 Whelen is the 7600. The .338 federal is pretty much DOA. Personally I'd get a Montana Rifle Co 1999 in .35 Whelen. It's a reliable action, in the right caliber, for a reasonable price. There are 4, including one in a nice carbon fiber stock, on gunbroker now.
Last edited:
Deaf Smith
New member
Browning BLR, stainless, in 35 Whelen!
That will do the trick. Just use the lighter bullets for most game (say Noslers) and heavy ones when you are in Griz country.
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
180 gr FN, 2,963 ft/s, 3,510 ft·lb
200 gr SP, 2,798 ft/s, 3,478 ft·lb
225 gr SB, 2,613 ft/s, 3,412 ft·lb
250 gr RN, 2,523 ft/s, 3,535 ft·lb
Deaf
That will do the trick. Just use the lighter bullets for most game (say Noslers) and heavy ones when you are in Griz country.
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
180 gr FN, 2,963 ft/s, 3,510 ft·lb
200 gr SP, 2,798 ft/s, 3,478 ft·lb
225 gr SB, 2,613 ft/s, 3,412 ft·lb
250 gr RN, 2,523 ft/s, 3,535 ft·lb
Deaf
Crankylove
New member
Out of the options posted, I'd go for the BLR in .358 Winchester.
I've got a Hawkeye in .358, and have taken elk and antelope with it. I looked at a BLR before I picked up the Hawkeye, and while a very nice gun, it was also about $200 more than the Ruger, and a noticeable amount heavier.
It may not shoot as flat as my '06 or .270, but still very capable out to 300-350 yards, or more, depending on how well you know your rifle. I load mine with 250's and would say the recoil is on par with my M70 .270 Winchester, probably even less out of the heavier BLR.
Not a whole lot of factory ammo choices available in my area, but there is at least one load on the racks at my local stores. Not that it matters, I reload, and my rifle had never seen factory ammo since factory .358 brass is readily available to me, or easily formed from .308.
I've got a Hawkeye in .358, and have taken elk and antelope with it. I looked at a BLR before I picked up the Hawkeye, and while a very nice gun, it was also about $200 more than the Ruger, and a noticeable amount heavier.
It may not shoot as flat as my '06 or .270, but still very capable out to 300-350 yards, or more, depending on how well you know your rifle. I load mine with 250's and would say the recoil is on par with my M70 .270 Winchester, probably even less out of the heavier BLR.
Not a whole lot of factory ammo choices available in my area, but there is at least one load on the racks at my local stores. Not that it matters, I reload, and my rifle had never seen factory ammo since factory .358 brass is readily available to me, or easily formed from .308.
Deaf Smith
New member
Well, I THOUGHT the BLR was once made in 35 Whelen, but nope it seems it wasn't. Ok, how about a Remington 7600 pump in 35 Whelen?
http://www.35cal.com/loading.html#7600carbine
http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=remington+7600+35+whelen
Ain't all that expensive to.
Deaf
http://www.35cal.com/loading.html#7600carbine
http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=remington+7600+35+whelen
Ain't all that expensive to.
Deaf
Deaf Smith
New member
You would think a BLR, being in '06, then 35 Whelen would be a snap. Oh, well.
Deaf
Deaf
QUOTE: "... There's just something sexy about that lever action..."
Not my cup of tea. As much as I like the looks of almost every other lever-action rifle made, I've always thought the BLR to be a rather ugly gun with out of proportion lines to it. A well-made rifle typical for Browning for sure, but this beholder's eyes see no beauty.
Not my cup of tea. As much as I like the looks of almost every other lever-action rifle made, I've always thought the BLR to be a rather ugly gun with out of proportion lines to it. A well-made rifle typical for Browning for sure, but this beholder's eyes see no beauty.
Last edited:
Hawkeye_FH
New member
JMR, do you have links to the test you mention in your first post?
I seem to remember hearing about a study by Alaska Fish and Game that most used cartridge to take brown and grizzly bears in Alaska is the .30-06. Hunting and defense are two different things. Interestingly enough though, I recently read a story on TFB.com of a fishing guide successfully defending his clients from a large grizzly with a 9mm handgun, for whatever it's worth.
I seem to remember hearing about a study by Alaska Fish and Game that most used cartridge to take brown and grizzly bears in Alaska is the .30-06. Hunting and defense are two different things. Interestingly enough though, I recently read a story on TFB.com of a fishing guide successfully defending his clients from a large grizzly with a 9mm handgun, for whatever it's worth.