Which bolts reset on the forward stroke?
- Thread starter wbw
- Start date
I don't know the Marlin 62, but I do know the Savage 99.
Don't confuse "cocked when closed" with "cock on closing". They mean different things.
"Cock on..." means that the majority of the work (or even all of it) needed to cock the gun happens when the bolt moves in that direction.
A cock on opening gun will have the hammer/firing pin spring in the cocked position with the action OPEN. A cock on closing gun does not.
A cock on opening gun may seem to "cock on close" but what you are seeing on the closing stroke is the end of the process.
Other than revolvers, break action hammer guns, and some antique designs (Spencer, etc) everything I can think of is ready to fire when the action is in the closed position. They are cocked when closed, but not cocked AS they close. They are already cocked when you begin to close them.
Cock on close bolt actions are older military designs, and sporters derived from them.
The Savage 99 cocks on opening. You won't see the cocked indicator pin until you close the action, but the mechanical work needed to cock the gun is done when you open it.
Look at the classic WIN/Marlin lever gun with their hammer. They are cock on opening. So is the AR-15. So are a nearly all repeaters these days. IF it has a hammer, that gets pushed down when the bolt comes back, its cock on opening.
Don't confuse "cocked when closed" with "cock on closing". They mean different things.
"Cock on..." means that the majority of the work (or even all of it) needed to cock the gun happens when the bolt moves in that direction.
A cock on opening gun will have the hammer/firing pin spring in the cocked position with the action OPEN. A cock on closing gun does not.
A cock on opening gun may seem to "cock on close" but what you are seeing on the closing stroke is the end of the process.
Other than revolvers, break action hammer guns, and some antique designs (Spencer, etc) everything I can think of is ready to fire when the action is in the closed position. They are cocked when closed, but not cocked AS they close. They are already cocked when you begin to close them.
Cock on close bolt actions are older military designs, and sporters derived from them.
The Savage 99 cocks on opening. You won't see the cocked indicator pin until you close the action, but the mechanical work needed to cock the gun is done when you open it.
Look at the classic WIN/Marlin lever gun with their hammer. They are cock on opening. So is the AR-15. So are a nearly all repeaters these days. IF it has a hammer, that gets pushed down when the bolt comes back, its cock on opening.
@44AMP: I'm not sure about the savage 99. If I understand it correctly, my savage 99 has a dog leg at the end of the firing pin, which engages a sear when you close the bolt. You can feel the firing pin load as you're closing the lever. Also, you can really feel the firing pin load on the marlin 62. Matter of fact, the marlin 62 reminds me of a miniaturized savage 99.
Mike Irwin has a lot of experience with savage 99's. Maybe he can weigh in?
Mike Irwin has a lot of experience with savage 99's. Maybe he can weigh in?
Mike Irwin
Staff
As I have always understood its operation, at least the early ones, the Savage 99 is cock on closing, which is born out by early illustrations of the gun, such as this one, where you can see the interplay of the sear, hammer, and other parts.
http://www.savage99.com/images/sav_1903_action.jpg
Guns made prior to about 1950 could be closed without cocking by "slipping" the trigger as the lever was closed.
A note about the "hammer" on the Savage 99... It's not what you traditionally think of as a hammer, such as those found on a Winchester lever action or a Smith & Wesson revolver.
In appearance and function it really is best thought of as a striker employing an independent firing pin nose.
After about 1950 the action was redesigned and, I believe the best description would be "partially cocked on opening, fully cocked when closed."
http://www.savage99.com/images/sav_1903_action.jpg
Guns made prior to about 1950 could be closed without cocking by "slipping" the trigger as the lever was closed.
A note about the "hammer" on the Savage 99... It's not what you traditionally think of as a hammer, such as those found on a Winchester lever action or a Smith & Wesson revolver.
In appearance and function it really is best thought of as a striker employing an independent firing pin nose.
After about 1950 the action was redesigned and, I believe the best description would be "partially cocked on opening, fully cocked when closed."
@44AMP: And I almost always defer to your expertise. I've learned a lot from you (and many others here). Thanks sent to you for your knowledge and thanks to Mike Irwin for the clarification.
The only generalization anyone can make about firearms is: "You can't generalize." (LOL)
The only generalization anyone can make about firearms is: "You can't generalize." (LOL)
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I gladly defer to Mike's expertise about the Savage 99."
Sucker!
Sucker!