Which bolts reset on the forward stroke?

T

tangolima

New member
I think that he broke the cheek weld when he worked the bolt in the video.

Take a 1903 Springfield. After dry firing, maintain the same cheek weld. Now work the bolt fast as you mean it. You will know how much it hurts when the butt of the bolt hits your cheek bone, or even your aiming eye.

-TL
 
M

Mobuck

Moderator
No "modern" centerfire that I know of has "cock on close" operation.
Suggest you lube the heck out of the Mossberg and work the bolt a couple of hundred times.
 
H

hooligan1

New member
Remington model 700, at least mine cocks on close, try your 700's, lift the bolt and slide it out of the action, its not cocked until you closebit down.
 
W

wbw

New member
Thanks for all the info guys.

The post above is interesting concerning the Rem 700. Any other thoughts about that?
 
J

Jim Watson

New member
Never saw a Remington 700 built to cock on closing.
What he likely feels is that you have to hold the cocked position as the cocking cam comes out from under the striker until it sears up.
 
A

AK103K

New member
I recently picked up a 5.56 MVP, and the bolt is a little different. Its not smooth, and can be downright jerky when working it. There is a lot of slop in it, and if you arent consistent in working it, it can be hitchy.

Mine was worse when I first got it, and now after about 500 rounds, it has smoothed out a little, but I really think its more me getting used to it, than it is the gun actually wearing in. Maybe a combination of the both, but if I work it slow, and with any side, or offline force on the bolt, and it still binds up.

I shoot a number of other bolt guns, Remingtons, Savage's, Mauser actions, 03's, SMLE's, and the Mossberg is definitely not as smooth, or as refined.
 
E

emcon5

New member
None of my Rem 700s cock on close. Never heard of one that did.

I suppose someone may have made some sort of bolt conversion for one, but I can't imagine why anyone would want that.
 
E

emcon5

New member
Clear the rifle and dry fire it. Lift the bolt handle, then lower it, without moving it fore/aft.

Try to dry fire it again. If it is a standard Remington 700, it will dry fire.
 
W

wbw

New member
I'm the OP here. It is clear to me now that the problem is me and I just need to spend more time behind the bolt.
 
M

Mobuck

Moderator
The 700 striker is retracted by the cocking cam during bolt handle lift. The striker is caught by the sear as the bolt is closed and held while the cocking cam rotates out of the way as the bolt handle is turned down. Same basic operation as 98 Mauser, M-70 Winchester, and most other current bolt actions.
 
M

Mike Irwin

Staff
In general terms only military rifles and those sporting rifles derived from military rifles have been cock on closing.

A (non) exhaustive list includes:

British Lee-Enfield
Japanese Arisaka
various Mauser variants
British Pattern 1914 Enfield
American M1917 Enfield

Remington made a number of sporting rifle variations on the M1917 Enfield. The initial Model 30 was cock on closing; later versions incorporated a redesigned bolt that made them cock on opening.

Various inexpensive .22 rifles from a variety of makers have also been made as cock on closing over the years.
 
S

seanc

New member
jmr40:
Anyone who spends a little time practicing can work with a long action rifle quite fast and still maintain cheek weld. All soldiers in WW-1 and most in WW-2 used long action bolt rifles and were taught to maintain cheek weld when shooting. I'm not quite as good as this guy, but I can get off 3 shots in under 2 seconds.

If you watch the entire video he uses 2 different rifles, one in 7X64 and the other in 300 WM. Both long actions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b43aF4R0h40
Click to expand...

He broke cheek-weld on every shot they showed him working the bolt on where you could see his face/shoulder. He kept the rifle in the shoulder pocket, but definitely broke cheek weld. Impressive results from those bullets!!
 
S

SIGSHR

New member
The Winchester Model 69-introduced 1935-cocks on closing. In 1937 the design was changed to cocks on opening and redesignated the Model 69A.
 
T

tahunua001

New member
then your 700 is severely defective and needs factory work. rem700 is cock on open like all modern rifles. some misconceptions.

1. enfield was not the only cock on close action.
2. the mauser 1896 was not the last cock on close to be developed. the swedes produced mausers based on the 96 action all the way up to the model 38 and the reworked M41s(model number coincides with year they entered service). in addition to direct decendants, the 1896 had a lot of rifles which were derived from it.
3. the american model 1917, based on a design proposed by enfield which resembled a mauser action in function, and sometimes called "the american enfield" is a cock on close design.
4. the Arisaka family of bolt action rifles are all cock on close.

5. if you want to get technical, the straight pull mannlichers are also cock on close.
 
4

44 AMP

Staff
The 700 is cock on opening. You are just confusing what you are seeing with the term.

Cock on opening means the firing pin spring is cocked (compressed) when you lift the bolt handle. Some guns let you see this very clearly, some don't. The 700 with its bolt shroud "don't".

When you close the bolt, what you see is the cocked firing pin, being held by the sear(trigger), and a very small amount of movement of the bolt body forward when you turn the handle down.

With a typical cock on closing action, the firing pin gets held about a half inch or so before the bolt is closed, and you have to push the bolt forward against the pressure of the firing pin spring, compressing it, and cocking the gun.

Confusing to explain, total no-brainer when you see them side by side.

Outside of military designs, cock on closing fell by the wayside for sporting arms (probably) mostly because of slower locktimes.
 
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