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What say you to this idea?
- Thread starter James K
- Start date
Thing is that remington was butt ugly. I still think the pump AR would be easily marketed to the tacticool crowd who lived in states that couldn't have a real AR. Don't get me wrong, I would have no use for it either but I believe there would be a market for it and as some have noted, a pump action can be fired much faster than a bolt, again appealing to some people.As noted earlier the 7615 from Remington was probably the best solution to the problem. If It didn't go over I can't see an AR lookalike doing any better. I could be wrong, but just don't see the market for it.
It is dead easy to make a pump version of the AR15, as it is with most semiauto designs.
A pump-action "AR15" receiver would be able to handle most of the accessories made for the AR, which would speak well in its favor. The exception would be the AR fore-ends... The pump version would have to use a different mounting system so the fore-end would actuate the action rails. Thus the current AR fore-ends would not work, new ones would have to be designed to work with pump-action.
Designed right, it would take any AR upper in any AR-compatible caliber. As mentioned earlier, there would have to be a plug for where the tube would normally go.
It would also be a very effective weapon. Many shooters can actually do deliberate, aimed fire quicker with a pump than with a semi-auto.
It would be slower for 'hosing' but hosing is just a good way to waste ammo in any case.
I'm not a big fan of AR's but a good idea is a good idea.
At least a pump-action AR would not have combustion gasses and crud pooting back into the rifles action with every shot fired. For this reason the pump model would run cleaner and be more far more reliable than an actual AR15.
I'd be more likely to buy a pump AR than a semiauto model, for the reasons outlined above.
A pump-action "AR15" receiver would be able to handle most of the accessories made for the AR, which would speak well in its favor. The exception would be the AR fore-ends... The pump version would have to use a different mounting system so the fore-end would actuate the action rails. Thus the current AR fore-ends would not work, new ones would have to be designed to work with pump-action.
Designed right, it would take any AR upper in any AR-compatible caliber. As mentioned earlier, there would have to be a plug for where the tube would normally go.
It would also be a very effective weapon. Many shooters can actually do deliberate, aimed fire quicker with a pump than with a semi-auto.
It would be slower for 'hosing' but hosing is just a good way to waste ammo in any case.
I'm not a big fan of AR's but a good idea is a good idea.
At least a pump-action AR would not have combustion gasses and crud pooting back into the rifles action with every shot fired. For this reason the pump model would run cleaner and be more far more reliable than an actual AR15.
I'd be more likely to buy a pump AR than a semiauto model, for the reasons outlined above.
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If it was specifically designed as a pump you just don't drill the gas port in the barrel. If a conversion, you could just turn the gas block backwards if a low profile, or drill and tap the FSB for a small pipe plug. I just wonder what you would use to lock and release the slide.
tahunua001
New member
I think it would be fairly simple to do the straight pull bolt action AR. the nyreen rifles have the side charging handles and all it would take is removing the gas system and it would become a single shot.
now since the nyreens are all long actions they are heavy as heck but and AR15 of a similar variant would be legal.
now since the nyreens are all long actions they are heavy as heck but and AR15 of a similar variant would be legal.
I think someone will find a way to make a compliant "ar"
Such a thing would be an excercise in Futility, as we are not dealing with reasonable people.
The Anti's would look at it, see an EBR, and ban it too.
Facts, reason and physics do not drive these people: Emotion does.
You can not have, let alone win, a reasonable argument people that believe in allowing their cardiac muscles to do their thinking for them.
papershotshells
New member
That we even have to HAVE this discussion about any of the 50 (not 57 dear leader) states of this once great country makes me sad enough to cry.
Having said that, yes, I think there COULD be a market for such a travesty, since there is no limit to what the mall ninja will buy when he can't have the real thing. I think most students of the gun, if faced with such restrictions (and not able to relocate to a free state), would opt for a more traditional and functional pump or bolt action repeater, but again, there is always the mall ninja/tacticool crowd who will buy it just because it LOOKS lethal.
As for me and mine, we will always live where we can exercise our FULL Constitutional rights, or we will not live.
Papershotshells
Having said that, yes, I think there COULD be a market for such a travesty, since there is no limit to what the mall ninja will buy when he can't have the real thing. I think most students of the gun, if faced with such restrictions (and not able to relocate to a free state), would opt for a more traditional and functional pump or bolt action repeater, but again, there is always the mall ninja/tacticool crowd who will buy it just because it LOOKS lethal.
As for me and mine, we will always live where we can exercise our FULL Constitutional rights, or we will not live.
Papershotshells
The sad fact is that our Second Amendment rights were lost in 1934 and will never fully return, no matter how much we rant and rave and talk about dying for our rights.
(Permit me to doubt that people who talk that way really mean it; are they really ready to start a revolution over a gun law? Are they ready to sacrifice themselves, have their homes burned, and their families killed over a ban on one kind of firearm? I doubt they have ever given any serious thought to what a revolution involves, or what is needed for success besides some "cool" rifle and a few rounds of ammunition.)
Jim
(Permit me to doubt that people who talk that way really mean it; are they really ready to start a revolution over a gun law? Are they ready to sacrifice themselves, have their homes burned, and their families killed over a ban on one kind of firearm? I doubt they have ever given any serious thought to what a revolution involves, or what is needed for success besides some "cool" rifle and a few rounds of ammunition.)
Jim
Brotherbadger
New member
No thanks. If I'm going to run a bolt gun I would rather it be a real bolt gun not an AR knock off. Same with a pump.
Agreed. Personally, I wouldn't buy one. If I wanted a bolt action .223, I'd buy a traditional hunting rifle in that caliber. I could see it working in ban states, maybe.
tahunua001
New member
and what exactly constitutes a "real" bolt action?
the swiss Schmit rubins as well as K11 and K31s are all straight pulls and in no way resemble a standard bolt action but are still considered bolts.
the M95 mannlichers are straight pulls and still considered bolts. what is the difference between one of those and some "tacticool" barett 50 cal.
the swiss Schmit rubins as well as K11 and K31s are all straight pulls and in no way resemble a standard bolt action but are still considered bolts.
the M95 mannlichers are straight pulls and still considered bolts. what is the difference between one of those and some "tacticool" barett 50 cal.
I was going to mention the Remington 7615 was marketed as such and it isn't exactly known as a popular rifle. Of course, others beat me to it.
IF... and this is a big if... but IF one could design a well made AR clone that utilizes a short stroke pump action that operates very smoothly I think it just might take off. Even more so if the price is right. Of course it would have to have the ability to take AR mags... which may not be as big of an issue because high cap mags are usually associated with semi-auto (or "automatic rifles" as the media loves to call them). I can see a market for it, with a bonus chance if you can mount lights and grips on the pump forearm without it wobbling around like the one on a Mossberg pump.
IF... and this is a big if... but IF one could design a well made AR clone that utilizes a short stroke pump action that operates very smoothly I think it just might take off. Even more so if the price is right. Of course it would have to have the ability to take AR mags... which may not be as big of an issue because high cap mags are usually associated with semi-auto (or "automatic rifles" as the media loves to call them). I can see a market for it, with a bonus chance if you can mount lights and grips on the pump forearm without it wobbling around like the one on a Mossberg pump.
Buzzard Bait
New member
Demand your rights
Sorry but you have a right to own a military style rifle. I think I would spend a fair amount of time getting in the face of the politicians who are denying you your rights, fund his opposition and let the public know that their rights are being taken from them. Demand that my rights, my constitutional rights as expressed in the bill of rights be fully restored and let them know our rights are not negotiable and the people who have denied them be removed from public office. The slime who are denying you your rights should not hold any public office they are unfit to be dog catcher.
bb
Sorry but you have a right to own a military style rifle. I think I would spend a fair amount of time getting in the face of the politicians who are denying you your rights, fund his opposition and let the public know that their rights are being taken from them. Demand that my rights, my constitutional rights as expressed in the bill of rights be fully restored and let them know our rights are not negotiable and the people who have denied them be removed from public office. The slime who are denying you your rights should not hold any public office they are unfit to be dog catcher.
bb
Buzzard Bait, that is all well and good and I agree fully with your theory but you are not being realistic. Reality is that we are in the minority. The majority is in one of two categories, informed liberals who do not think we should have these rights or uninformed voters who don't care one way or the other as long as they get their government hand outs. Who do you think elected the current president twice? It certainly wasn't informed voters who care about our (or their) constitutional rights. Absolutely, make your feelings known as much as possible and don't give up the fight but, there is only so much that can be done when so much of the voting population can't even tell you who is Vice President.
I also agree completely with what James K said above. There are plenty who talk a good fight when it comes to things like revolution but few if any who really have the stomach for it. Americans have had it too good for too long to give it all up in a heated battle against the government.
I also agree completely with what James K said above. There are plenty who talk a good fight when it comes to things like revolution but few if any who really have the stomach for it. Americans have had it too good for too long to give it all up in a heated battle against the government.
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Gun control or any kind is like a bully trying to steal you pie. The bully wants the whole pie, but he doesn’t eat the whole pie all at once.
So if you keep the part he’s not eating he doesn’t care as long as you are afraid of him and will give him pie every time he demands a piece. The holder of the pie is stupid enough to not know the bully has already clamed the whole pie, and is just letting the holder hold it for a while ------until the bully is ready.
The one attribute that makes this system work is cowardice.
These compromises are just cowardly ways to look at giving a bully a smaller piece of the pie at any given moment. But giving in at all is 100% proof that the bully will get the whole pie in time.
So if you keep the part he’s not eating he doesn’t care as long as you are afraid of him and will give him pie every time he demands a piece. The holder of the pie is stupid enough to not know the bully has already clamed the whole pie, and is just letting the holder hold it for a while ------until the bully is ready.
The one attribute that makes this system work is cowardice.
These compromises are just cowardly ways to look at giving a bully a smaller piece of the pie at any given moment. But giving in at all is 100% proof that the bully will get the whole pie in time.
It started with their ability to perform under adverse conditions. That's why the military adopted them.
While true for a number of guns, it didn't start out that way for the AR. Gen Curtis Lemay was looking for a replacement for the M1 carbine his Air Force SPs were using. At that time, the Air Force was still getting all its small arms, and support (parts, etc.) from the Army. And the Army was dropping the M1 Carbine.
So, faced with the choice of using the carbines until they ran out of parts or looking for another rifle, Lemay went looking, and (according to stories) was shown the AR rifle at a party. Apparently he thought it would be a fine choice for airbase security. (not down in the mud infantry combat, which the Air Force didn't do) Also have heard that JFK was taken with it, and enjoyed shooting it.
It was the "brilliant" bean counters in the MacNamara Defense Dept that forced it on us as a general infantry rifle, the M16. There's a lot more to the story, but that's the basics of its beginnings.
As to a pump or straight pull AR, to get around the legal restrictions in some places, ok. Just understand that as long as the rest of the nation remains relatively free, the market will be small.
AND, there is a potential unintended consequence if you go that route. Right now, the gun bans all are worded to include semi-auto AND magazine capacity (often phrased as "the ability to accept magazines over XX round capacity, or something similar).
What they are afraid of is a large capacity firearm that can be fired quickly. Once they realize that you are flouting their rules by using a manually operated action, they will simply reword the laws to include ALL firearms that can accept a ....rather than just semis...
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
FYI, folks - just saw this:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/30/troy-defense-par-pump-action-ar-style-rifle/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/30/troy-defense-par-pump-action-ar-style-rifle/
i saw a "compliant" pump ar back in the 90s. just a standard pump version. not bad. really slowed down the rate of fire i guess.
other compliant feature for 'thkose evil magazines' was to have a 10-10 round magazine WELDED into the reiciever, and simply pull the back pin out and rotate everything up and forward to reload the magazine.
other compliant feature for 'thkose evil magazines' was to have a 10-10 round magazine WELDED into the reiciever, and simply pull the back pin out and rotate everything up and forward to reload the magazine.
A friend of mine has one of the Remington pump .223s (non AR gun) that takes the AR magazine.
I think they intended it for the police, and for people who for one reason or another didn't want an "EBR" looking gun.
I also don't think they sold many. Turns out the police can get actual M16s or ARs from our govt cheap/free, so they weren't very interested in the Rem pump.
His is for sale, if you want it.....
these aren't the droids you are looking for...(waves hand)
Move along...
(waves hand again...)
I think they intended it for the police, and for people who for one reason or another didn't want an "EBR" looking gun.
I also don't think they sold many. Turns out the police can get actual M16s or ARs from our govt cheap/free, so they weren't very interested in the Rem pump.
His is for sale, if you want it.....
these aren't the droids you are looking for...(waves hand)
Move along...
(waves hand again...)