What say you to this idea?

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James K

Member In Memoriam
First, please no rants or threats to do nasty things to me for "surrendering" to the anti-gun gang.

We fought hard but more states have banned or restricted semi-auto rifles of the AR-15 type. We don't like it, but don't have a lot of choice especially as some of the penalties involved are draconian.

So, how about an AR-15 lookalike that has no barrel port, and is operated by a pump-gun foreend or a straight pull bolt. It has been done, but the idea has not caught on because in most of the U.S. it is still possible to buy modern semi-auto rifles. But, for those of us who have to live in states that restrict them, a manually operated AR-15 seems to me an attractive alternative.

Again, please no nasty comments or ravings about "cold dead hands" or "no compromise" or "move, you $^%$$". Just an opinion on whether enough manually operated rifles would sell to make production worthwhile.

Jim
 
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Ruger480

New member
No can do kimosabe. Form follows function. Its not necessarily the look that made these firearms desirable.

It started with their ability to perform under adverse conditions. That's why the military adopted them. I think that the idea proposed here is trying to make function follow form. I'm not sure that would catch on very well. That's just me though.
 
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Grundy53

New member
No thanks. If I'm going to run a bolt gun I would rather it be a real bolt gun not an AR knock off. Same with a pump.
 
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CTS

New member
I think if you are looking at it from a sales standpoint there would probably be a market for it, especially among the younger crowd. There is plenty of money being made right now on AR accessories just because they look cool so there is something appealing about the look of an AR that would be legal to own in restricted states.
 
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1stmar

New member
I think someone will find a way to make a compliant "ar" or at least I hope so. Stag may be leading the way here. I think the challenge may be the various different state laws and what it will take to be compliant in all states. Certainly magazine capacity is common. Pistol grip, bayonet lug etc...I'd like to see as many features retained as possible but perhaps the most important feature for me would be modularity. The ability to change upper receivers and get different calibers, shorter barrels, heavy barrels etc is the real attraction to the ar for me. Hopefully someone is already working on it.
 
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Sweet Shooter

New member
Which states are banning them? The ban is on the sale or transfer right? there is no confiscation...

I agree with the others... there's no point if the basic fundamentals of self loading from a high cap mag is not the outcome. I'd take a bolt gun over a functionally compromised AR.
-SS-
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
At the moment there is no confiscation, but many states require registration, clearly intended as a prelude to confiscation. As it is now, no one in those states who does not own one can ever buy one, so it amounts to a ban for those folks.

If making "compliant" guns is a bad idea and totally unacceptable, then how come folks want to own semi-auto versions of the AR-15 and M14, which are nothing more than "compliant" versions of guns originally designed as full auto weapons?

Technically, there is no reason any semi-autos could not be modified to manual operation.

Jim
 
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marine6680

New member
You could do the same thing if you just remove the gas tube, or seal it somehow. Just use the charging handle to manually cycle the action.


Most states still allow semi auto, they just limit some features.


An idea like this shouldn't be needed... but that is beyond the scope of this thread.
 
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Nathan

New member
I think you have to look at effectiveness...in that light, a semi auto shotty with buckshot sounds a lot better to me.

To me, it is not about looking like an AR, but being as effective. Perhaps a Mossy 930 with an 18.5" barrel and matching length mag tube? Mount a Trijicon RMR and ~300 lumen light on it and I'd use it..
 
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9x19

New member
I wouldn't have any interest whatsoever, but I'm one of those guys who'd pack up and move.

Good luck to you.
 
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Jay24bal

New member
No thanks. If I'm going to run a bolt gun I would rather it be a real bolt gun not an AR knock off. Same with a pump.
Click to expand...

I would tend to agree with this statement.

If I need to operate it manually, why not just buy a bolt gun, or a pump gun? The appeal of the AR (or AK, or SKS, etc) is in the functionality of the platform (at least to me). I could care less what it looked like. It is a pretty darn reliable weapon, with a 30 round mag, that can fire those 30 rounds as fast as I can pull the trigger.

The only reason I could see this taking off is for the people who like to mount accessories on their front rails as a range toy. For home defense, they make plenty of pump shotguns that you can hang any accessory you wanted to off it.
 
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g.willikers

New member
Yes and No.
There will be customers for a pump action AR look-a-like, if they can't have the real thing.
Especially when they realize how fast a pump can shoot.
Don't know about a bolt action, though - probably not.
And there will be customers who would prefer a traditional looking pump or bolt action, figuring if they can't have the real thing, why invite a possible hassle over something that still looks like one.
 
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2ndsojourn

New member
It may already be made. I think James Pond (I think it was him but I could be wrong) posted a photo awhile back of a UK?-legal AR. I believe it was some kind of bolt action EBR. I don't remember if it was magazine fed or single shot but I guess if that's all you're allowed to have as a modern sporting rifle I could see getting one.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
The argument that no one would buy something that just "looks like", say, an AR-15, is again defeated by the semi-auto AR-15 itself, as well as the M1A, both of which just "look like" the selective fire rifles they originally were. And by the large numbers of non-firing machineguns, semi-auto BAR's, .22 StG clones, etc.

In fact, I still own, and can fire, several semi-auto "modern sporting rifles", as well as high capacity magazines, since previous ownership was grandfathered. But unless the law is changed or declared unconstitutional (both unlikely), no future generations will be able to.

Jim
 
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dakota.potts

New member
If I were going to buy one, I don't know if I'd buy it in 5.56.

To me, that is where the AR platforms in .243, 6.8/6.5, .308, etc. come in. Something like the 6.8 SPC/6.5 Grendel could still fit on an AR-15 frame and there are a lot of advantages of those over a standard bolt action gun. Friendlier controls, modular capability, lightweight, universal platform.

I could see something like this Grendel "counter sniper" with a bull barrel becoming more popular in that case: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Grendel_Counter_Sniper.JPG

or perhaps something like the BCM Mk12 or Knight Armament SR-25

Of course, when talking about featureless AR models, we often end up with something like this monstrosity: http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/arms...18/2127100_03_ar_15_featureless_stock_640.jpg

A very creative solution, if not ugly, but over time I have to wonder if we might even get very good platforms created by the need for a featureless AR.
 
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jmr40

New member
As noted earlier the 7615 from Remington was probably the best solution to the problem. If It didn't go over I can't see an AR lookalike doing any better. I could be wrong, but just don't see the market for it.

Fortunately I have no restrictions on AR ownership. If I did, I'd much prefer a pseudo- scout type bolt rifle. I have no use for forward mounted scopes, but a 5-6 lb bolt rifle with a 1-4X scope mounted conventionally and a 5-10 round DBM would be preferable to a pump action AR in my opinion.

None of the bolt rifles marketed as a scout rifle would interest me, nor any of the pump actions.
 
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