what law is violated???

[farmall]

Wife was in court once when a leaving the scene of an accident case was being tried. The defendant claimed to be experiencing a "diahrrea emergency" and HAD to leave for home.

From the Twinkie to the Mud-Butt defense, she's seen it all.
I'd rather plead guilty than subject myself to that humiliation!

The cops have a crappy enough job to do. If I feel I'm being treated fairly, and with respect, I'll reciprocate, but my $100 dollar cars have gotten me profiled more often than the wife's Navigator. Just human nature, I suppose.

Andy

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

but my $100 dollar cars have gotten me profiled more often than the wife's Navigator. Just human nature, I suppose.

Indeed. I used to drive a heavily modified, shiny wheeled, tinted window Eagle Talon. I got pulled over about twice a month, no matter what I was doing.

Nowadays, a Subaru Forester with Sunshades in the rear windows and two car seats.... complete with an "I support Broome County Sherrifs" window decal and I have haven't been pulled over in years, can't even remember the last time.

 

[Skans]

also, i pretty much write everyone i pull over. although some of the nicer ones do indeed get a warning. of course the great excuse wins too, but the great excuse is few and far between. does that make me a bad cop, or just one doing his job?

Personally, I don't think that police officers should be in the business of stopping people for speeding on highways. I know that this is our legislatures fault and not the fault of LEO's, but that's just how I feel. If someone is driving eratically or wrecklessly, then pull him over. But, its absurd the amount of resources that goes into paying LEO's to sit in the median of highways trying to trap speeders. I'd much rather all of these LEO's spend their time staking out convenience stores and the like rather than hunting down speeders.

Drive at your own risk. It's dangerous. Get cops back to doing what they are meant to do - keep the peace and catching real criminals in the act of committing real crimes.

 

[jfrey123]

First thing out of my mouth when stopped, with hands on my steering wheel still and the light on if needed, is "May I ask why I'm being stopped?" followed by "Officer, I want to let you know that I have a Concealed Firearm Permit and I am in fact armed." For the most part, I know I've done something wrong which is why I'm being stopped and I'd rather tell the officer about the gun up front rather than have it be discovered later through questions or somehow be accidentally seen.

That's as far as I go. I will not consent to a search, and to me a search includes them attempting to disarm me. When they tell me that I'm being stopped for a speeding ticket, they have no reason to suspect I've committed any other crimes and therefore they have no "probable cause" to do anything besides run my DL and plates for the traffic stop.



If you notice from watching police shows, most of the time when they ask a question it starts with "Do you mind....?" "Do you mind stepping out of the car?" "Do you mind if search your vehicle?" Now, some officers are very good at this. They ask very sternly to encourage your compliance, or they motion like they're already reaching in to what they want to search. The thing to remember as a citizen is that they can ask WHATEVER THEY WANT. It's their job to ask questions and find bad guys. It's happened to me on more than one occasion, and when I refuse I generally get a smile and a "Alright." They know they're reaching sometimes, and they know I have the right not to play their game.


To answer the OP's question, you legally do not have to answer any question they ask. EDIT TO ADD: MOST STATE'S DO HAVE A REQUIREMENT TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF TO A PEACE OFFICER. OTHER QUESTIONS DO NOT NEED TO BE ANSWERED. Failure to answer a question is not Probable Cause for a search, no matter how much they intimidate you and say it is, and that is thanks to a Supreme Court ruling.

 

[OldMarksman]

I just don't buy in to the suggestions given that only make the LE officer's life harder.

Nor do I.

I don't even go for my license or registration until asked so the officer can watch my every move. On top of that, I tell him where my hands are going before I make my move.

Makes excellent advice for everyone, I think.

Even a routine traffic stop entails significant risk for the officer and is therefor likely a high stress situation.

As taxpaying citizens, we employ those men and women to serve us It makes no sense to pay them and then willfully make their jobs more difficult by behaving rudely or stupidly or both.

People who are pulled over often see themselves as victims of a sort. Consider this: how do you know that your car does not match the general description of one that has just been reported as having left the scene of a robbery, kidnapping, or suspicious transaction?

It's one thing exercise fourth and fifth amendment rights appropriately and another to impede the progress of what my be a criminal investigation requiring the rapid apprehension of a dangerous suspect.

Should you end up in some kind of potential legal difficulty for any reason--speeding, failure to stop at a sign, expired registration, not having your insurance card, whatever--your having given smug, oblique, or untrue answers will neither engender any sympathy to the officer or help your credibility.

One other thing--just how smart is it to engage in verbal horseplay with an armed officer who is under high stress who may have just heard that someone matching your general description should be considered to be armed and dangerous?

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Anyone that wants to know how to act during a traffic stop should find the book "A Speeder's Guide to Avoiding Tickets". It was written by a former NY State Trooper IIRC.

Not that I recommend speeding at all but it is an excellent guide to proper behavior, and the reason for it, during a traffic stop and is applicable to most interactions with LE.

 

[zukiphile]

To answer the OP's question, you legally do not have to answer any question they ask.

I believe you will see some state to state variance on that and that in Ohio, you have no right to withhold your identity from an inquiring LEO.

I wouldn't like someone to learn a difference in laws the hard way.

 

[KLRANGL]

Am I violating a law if I answer no to all but I have a rifle and pistol in the vehicle? A "gun" is, by definition a smoothbore projectile launching platform.

I'm pretty sure that in Virginia you legally have to inform an officer that you have a weapon if they ask, though after trying to find the statute I've come up empty handed. I'll have to double check with my cop buddy...

I am curious as to where you got that smootbore definition from. Never heard it before.

 

[Bud Helms]

Did you miss this post by hogdogs?

I just researched the word gun and it seems I would be lying as it looks like gun is no longer smoothbore and any projectile emitting hand held device could be termed a gun...
Brent

That was about post #8.

 

[KLRANGL]

Did you miss this post by hogdogs?

It would appear so I read the whole thread, honest...

 

[madmag]

If you are CCW

I want to let you know that I have a Concealed Firearm Permit and I am in fact armed.

So, doesn't that make telling the officer about any guns you do or don't have a moot issue? My state says I am supposed to tell the officer I have (show) a carry permit. Then he can ask if I have any guns on my person or in the car. Doesn't make sense that I would first inform him I have a permit, then say "no I am not going to answer your questions about being armed".

I held permits in three other states, and as I remember they had about the say requirements when stopped by a LEO.

 

[mrray13]

First thing out of my mouth when stopped, with hands on my steering wheel still and the light on if needed, is "May I ask why I'm being stopped?" followed by "Officer, I want to let you know that I have a Concealed Firearm Permit and I am in fact armed." For the most part, I know I've done something wrong which is why I'm being stopped and I'd rather tell the officer about the gun up front rather than have it be discovered later through questions or somehow be accidentally seen.

That's as far as I go. I will not consent to a search, and to me a search includes them attempting to disarm me.

again, inform me of that in my state, you will be stepping out of the vehicle, and turning over your weapon. compliance means you will most likely get your gun back with no citation attached, other then what i pulled you over for. non compliance will get you taken out the car, the gun removed and citations for all of it. you can not carry legally in the state of illinois, regardless of what your state says. (well, unless you follow the 7 seconds to safety idea)

i'd much rather you tell me up front, and for my safety the sidearm will be with me during the traffic stop. it will only help you in the end to do so.

 

[AK103K]

I feel safer already.

By the way, just for my curiosity, since you are a cop, "am I required by law to answer the question"? Not being a wise ass, I just really want to know. I'm sure you have the cite readily available if it is.

 

[KLRANGL]

i'd much rather you tell me up front, and for my safety the sidearm will be with me during the traffic stop

I know carry in Illinois is a no no legally, but from a philosophical point of view, would you really feel safer holding on to a firearm that someone told you up front about? If they wanted to use said firearm against you, you think they would have told you about it? These are serious questions btw, not being rhetorically sarcastic.
I mean down here in Virginia, it is the opinion of some cops I know that they feel more uptight when they run someones tags on a traffic stop and it comes up as a CCW holder. To me, it just seems like it should make you feel safer, since you are facing someone who statistically commits far less crime. Not saying you should loose your edge, just saying it shouldn't make you more uptight. Make sense?

 

[OuTcAsT]

and for my safety the sidearm will be with me during the traffic stop

OK, but do I get to keep your sidearm with me for my safety?


If I showed you my permit, told you where the firearm is, how is relieving of my sidearm making either of us "more safe"? My weapon will not magically jump out of it's own accord and fire any more than yours will.

(OK we got the whole "Illinois" thing) Would you do the same if CC or OC were legal in your state?

 

[mrray13]

ak103...no, you do not have to answer the question. depending upon the situation, it could lead to other issues. but for the sake of this thread, if state law says you don't have announce you are carrying (assuming the ccw permit thing), then don't answer the question. the part about drugs or large amounts of cash are moot IMO. i'd only ask that question if i had reasonable suspision, which might lead to probable cause, to get into the vehicle.

KLRANGL, OuTcAsT...i understand what you two are getting at, but please understand my position. i'm alone on the interstate, backup 6 minutes away, in a state where carry isn't allowed without some kind of LE credentials. you just told me you have a gun on your person, and in the last case i had, the driver and passanger both had weapons, plus an extra one in the truck. yeah, it makes me feel safer to have those three weapons in the car with me during that traffic stop. from my POV, while you have indeed set the tone by being honest and up front, you are still breaking the law, i am not your favorite person to begin with by pulling you over and i just informed you that you can now go to jail for your otherwise legal weapons. people have been shot for less, and while i believe most would not shoot me, what about that one where that was the last straw? is it worth my life to bother you for a moment and retain your illegally transported firearms (illinois statue makes it unlawful use of a weapon)? you bet it is. IMHO, i'm doing that ccw holder a favor by not taking them to jail, and just retaining their weapon for a few moments.

if carry was legal, and you had abided by all laws concerning that legality, i would probably not retain the weapon, as you hadn't broken any laws by having it. but i think your attitude would dictate my actions there as well.

 

[jgcoastie]

When I'm on a boarding, the first question I ask when I get on the boat is "Sir/Ma'am, without moving or reaching for it in any way, are there any weapons on this vessel?" If they say yes (and they dang well better be telling the truth if they say no), my reply is "Without moving or reaching for the weapon in any way, where is/are the weapon/s located?"

Upon retrieving the weapon, I will clear the weapon and place zip-tie through the action. I will then retain the weapon or hand it off to one of the other members of the boarding party for the duration of the boarding. When the boarding is complete, the weapon will be returned to the master of the vessel.

Officer safety comes before the safety of any other. Period. As law-abiding citizens you should not allow your rights to be infringed, but you should also know the exact legal limitations of those rights as well as the legal obligation to comply and inform the officer. Many states require that you inform any LEO if you are armed immediately upon official interaction. And always bear in mind that LEO's of all varieties will take any/all steps necessary to return home to their families (regardless of whether you think it is trivial/dumb/inappropriate/etc). I know I will.

 

[Pbearperry]

Are some folks imagining that lying to police is a crime or is that actually a crime in some states?Even in Massachusetts there is no law on the books about lying to the cops,unless it's during the booking process after an arrest.Also,I have never seen anyone ever hammered in court for that either.Lying to cops in Mass. is an art form.

 

[OuTcAsT]

Officer safety comes before the safety of any other. Period.

and...

As law-abiding citizens you should not allow your rights to be infringed

= Dichotomy.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Don't think so, Outcast. You only provided a clipping of mrray's statement to artificially support your claim. You have rights, yes. However, once on a public road with deemed privelages your rights only go so far when an officer sworn to protect the public trust has you pulled over for a reason.