We're in the Savage/Ruger era.

[FiveInADime]

People will always buy cheaper varieties of goods when they are being strictly utilitarian. But when people want to show off their rifles, they don't pull out their Savage Axis or Ruger American to see who has the prettiest plastic or the roughest sprayed-on finish. They reach for that old walnut and blued steel rifle in the back of the safe.

Maybe if you only associate with those 50+. The younger guys will be pulling out AR platform rifles and metal chassis 'combat-style' bolt actions with big box magazines.

And the guys that need lightweight mountain rifles have stainless rifles with fiberglass/carbon/composite stocks.

I AM a younger guy who loves classic rifles but I'm a relic of my gun-loving ancestors who thought walnut and shiny bluing was the only acceptable rifle trim.



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[Llama Bob]

I don't know about that - ARs are ugly and mostly the same and everyone has three, and regardless of age everyone's sort of figured that out. The best ones (especially in beefier calibers) are good battle and long range rifles though.

I've gotten way more interest at the range in my 1886 than in anything AR or long range bolt. I guess there's something about a gun that will thrown a 425gr monolithic solid at 2100 ft/s that gets people's attention

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Levers and bolts, walnut and blued steel, Winchesters for me.... And I'm 38 years old.

I do confess to owning a Rem 700 ADL synthetic... It's all business and utility, but has put a fair bit of meat in the freezer for me. Yeah it does the job pretty nicely, but my m70 Super Grade and BB94 are my pride and joy of the safe..

It's nice to have such a wide variety to choose from though. There is something for every taste out there.

 

[Sarge]

I have a weakness for the economy versions for first string rifles of 50 years ago; namely the Remington 78 and Winchester 670, left and right in the photo.

I've never had one that didn't shoot great and you don't worry about using them hard. I can't abide a rifle w/o irons and these guns always have them. Heck I still zero the irons for 200 yards before I ever mount a scope.

The Winchester was shortened to 20" and shoots better than it did before the chop. It now wears a basic 3x9 Nikon BDC and is my main battery hunting rifle.

 

[Gunplummer]

Yes, it is a little weird. Mossberg was always considered a low grade gun too, but it seems there was no reason for it. I would bet that the "Big name" manufacturers started a lot of the bad rumors. Many people thought the Marlin lever guns were less than a Winchester, and I will never understand that.

 

[Guv]

I think the 336 was/is considered less sleek with it's lever pivot screw. What you get is a forged receiver (for all years), 1 screw take down for cleaning the bore and a very nice flat receiver should you want to mount a scope.

 

[Olympus]

Maybe in terms of inexpensive rifles, but not as a general statement. It may seem like that because a larger portion of gun buyers are buying more of the less expensive models. But it depends on your circle.

 

[bobn]

good guns are where you find them. for me it means good not just passable accuracy, the ability to single feed AND reliably feed from the magazine. unload safely (laws while out hunting require that near road sides, cars, etc). sturdy construction meaning no need for repairable parts supply.
.....which ones do that is where our opinions differ.
ruger accuracy is hit or miss, anything with a rotary magazine cannot be single fed or topped off, savage currently doesn't have a decent fitting magazine. the bedding on their rimfires is a joke. howa has a decent action made like a traditional rifle but the plastic stocks do not do anything for me.
... I would rather pay twice and get a m70 or a cdl/bdl 700. wood and steel. a surplus mauser did me when I was too broke to splurge. bobn

 

[VoodooMountain]

good guns are where you find them. for me it means good not just passable accuracy, the ability to single feed AND reliably feed from the magazine. unload safely (laws while out hunting require that near road sides, cars, etc). sturdy construction meaning no need for repairable parts supply.
.....which ones do that is where our opinions differ.
ruger accuracy is hit or miss, anything with a rotary magazine cannot be single fed or topped off, savage currently doesn't have a decent fitting magazine. the bedding on their rimfires is a joke. howa has a decent action made like a traditional rifle but the plastic stocks do not do anything for me.
... I would rather pay twice and get a m70 or a cdl/bdl 700. wood and steel. a surplus mauser did me when I was too broke to splurge. bobn

Ruger accuracy hasn't been hit or miss in many years. They are just plain accurate.

Savage offers models in wood stocks along with Remington
Howa doesn't but Boyd's are available

I haven't had issues with Ruger's rotary mags, either. I know some did on the American series but those were since resolved and I'm not sure what you mean by saying the rotary mags can't be topped off or single loaded. I have done both to my 10/22's and American.

 

[Llama Bob]

Many people thought the Marlin lever guns were less than a Winchester, and I will never understand that.

At least in the context of the big cartridges, there's a good reason for that. The Winchester/Browning 1886/71 is a much stronger design than the Marlin 336/1895.

 

[Guv]

A 444 Marlin is rated at 44,000 cup.
348 is rated at 40,000 cup.

 

[FiveInADime]

the ability to single feed AND reliably feed from the magazine.

That annoys me with my one and only Savage. I can't really single feed it. But you can't really single-feed a CRF M70, either (you're not supposed to).

But then I shoot a bug-hole group or smack a steel target FAR away with it and I don't care so much.

My hunting rifles are push-feed M70s in .243 and 7RemMag and they're great for that purpose but they're 1" to 1-3/4" shooters.

Compare that to:

I bought a cheap Marlin X7 stainless in 7mm-08 to use as project gun and it shot factory loads into an inch and handloads 1/2"-3/4". And the barrel looked liked it was threaded on the inside it was so rough. Now it's a 26" heavy-barreled .260Rem with a nicely figured walnut stock.

My Savage .223 came out of the box as the most accurate rifle I've ever owned. It's ridiculous and truly the only rifle I've owned I can't outshoot. It irritates me that it's so accurate and my other guns can't shoot that well.

 

[Llama Bob]

A 444 Marlin is rated at 44,000 cup.
348 is rated at 40,000 cup.

The 1886 (in modern steel) can tolerate about 25% more bolt thrust than the 336. It's all dependent on case/piston cross-area but if you compare apples to apples the 1895 in .45-70 can safely tolerate about 42KPSI vs. about 50KPSI for the 1886. It's really not even very close.

By the way, CUP is units for "we screwed up the pressure testing and don't really know". The error in copper crush measurements is so high as to make them barely useful.

 

[Sarge]

savage currently doesn't have a decent fitting magazine...

My youngest son recently bought an Axis 308 that started spitting the magazine out at random, on the first range trip. They replaced it but he hasn't had a chance to wring the new one out yet.

 

[Llama Bob]

That annoys me with my one and only Savage. I can't really single feed it. But you can't really single-feed a CRF M70, either (you're not supposed to).

That's a feature, not a bug. If there's enough space for the extractor to pop over the case rim going into battery, there's enough space for it to pop over the rim during extraction. In a true CRF design, the real benefit is to extraction. If you bring that bold back, you WILL either get the case out of the chamber or rip the case head off trying.

That's why CRF is strongly recommended for dangerous game applications, not because of some nonsense about feeding rounds upside down (which PF rifles typically have no problem with either).

 

[bobn]

thanks for discussing the various thoughts I have. I understand the new ruger American series offer better accuracy as a whole but one in our club in 300 blackout does not. the recently purchased hawkeye I had in 257 Roberts did not either. glad others have had better luck. bobn

 

[Stats Shooter]

Bobn,
Every company makes a lemon barrel now and then. But what Ruger and Savage have done is make sub moa guns affordable to everyone. To do this they put all "value" in their barrels and triggers. They are totally utilitarian because a Burch stock with gloss finish and silky smooth action adds at least another $500. Now both Ruger and Savage make high end rifles like that but so does Remington, Winchester (FN), Browning etc.

Plus most of the innovation in bolt action has been from these companies. When it comes to shotguns, Remington is king, for pistols it's S&w. But I think in the rifle arena it's Ruger followed closely by Savage.

 

[Olympus]

When it comes to shotguns, Remington is king, for pistols it's S&w. But I think in the rifle arena it's Ruger followed closely by Savage.

I'm not sure I agree with the shotguns and certainly don't agree with the pistols.

 

[bobn]

miss, I see your point but I am sure glad I think plastic, alloy and other stuff belong on a AR otherwise its wood steel remchesterbrown. lol, bobn

 

[fourbore]

In the low cost, bread and butter world, folks still talk about Remington. I dont but some do. There are a lot of Tikka selling well and being talked about and that is only a little more money for IMHO a lot more gun. Nothing fancy either, synthetic (aka plastic) stock, moa guarantee. Image an MOA guarantee from Ruger - in your dreams. There is a lot of buzz on the net and at the clubs around CZ and the whole new ownership line of Winchester. The Winchester stuff is higher cost, but I hear and see plenty. Winchester even got an 1873 now. Tikka and CZ are kinda new names to me, while the old names, Winchester, Remington, Ruger and Savage all alive and spoken of.

In a sort of role reversal, Ruger started out as a classic/classy alternative to the cheaped out Remington and Winchester line with with pressed checkering, push feed guns. Now, Ruger is taking the low road and CZ is stealing the classic/class act market. Go in any gun shop- it is a lot more than 2 brands. Join a club. Get off the web. There is a big world out there. I think on average as many if not far more choices than ever before in my life time. I just need more money.

Look at the big bores. For decades, it was 458 win mag and 375. Now you got 404,416x3 flavors, lott, gibbs, rigby, a whole parcel of Nitro Express rounds loaded by Hornady and rifles in singles, bolts and double for all the above.

Consider the single shots by c sharps, Uberti and Shiloh and others. And some junk I wont mention. Imagine, you can buy single shot in 45/70, 90, 110 or 44/77 or 50/90. How was that in the good old days? Oh yea, even an 1885 (86,92,73) with the winchester name on it! You never see those come out of new haven. Believe me, people talk about this too.

Cowboy action, steel challenge, long range precision shooting and three gun. There is a lot going on and purpose built guns for all of it.