Weapon Mounted Light Training...

[Koda94]

Specifically pistols, teach me about the use of a weapon mounted light (WML) on a pistol. I'm not asking so I can skip taking a class, I'm asking so I can gauge if I want to invest in it and take a class. I just want a basic idea of what the training entails, so I can decide if a light would benefit me. I've been of the mindset that the less I put on my weapons the better and am fine with investing my time in "old school" techniques like the Harris hold.

what is a basic drill used to train with a WML?

 

[T. O'Heir]

A weapon mounted light looks really cool on TV. You will not be going into dark rooms looking for trouble with a CCW permit.

 

[Koda94]

A weapon mounted light looks really cool on TV. You will not be going into dark rooms looking for trouble with a CCW permit.

I understand this, thats why I'm asking what kind of training is involved. The market is heavily saturated with rail-guns and lights, how are people using these lights?

 

[Unconventional]

... You will not be going into dark rooms looking for trouble with a CCW permit.

Giving orders?

On the flip side, I wish you luck, should you find yourself in a dark room with trouble looking for you.

OP, the need for a weapon light depends on your needs. (T. O'Heir assumed you are simply a CCW permit holder) Assess your need for one. The class might help you in this assessment.

 

[Koda94]

OP, the need for a weapon light depends on your needs. (T. O'Heir assumed you are simply a CCW permit holder) Assess your need for one. The class might help you in this assessment.

thats why I asked, to assess if I want to take a class.


from what I'm seeing in this thread, nobody must have ever received training. Not one person can explain even a basic use of the light in action?

Maybe I should have asked first how many people have taken a low light class?

 

[jmr40]

A weapon mounted light looks really cool on TV. You will not be going into dark rooms looking for trouble with a CCW permit.

But sometimes trouble comes into the dark room where you are, and it would be nice to know if it is really a threat or not.

I used to think they were a gimmick, but wouldn't want a HD weapon without one anymore. Turning on the lights isn't always an option and I want to be 100% certain there is a threat before I pull the trigger. I think it is much better mounted on the gun rather than a separate light in the other hand.

You don't have to point the weapon at someone to use it. With the pistol pointed at the ground and the powerful lights available it will light up the entire room and at least 40-50' away outdoors. Easily enough light to identify the threat without actually pointing the weapon at someone. If it is a threat bringing the weapon up and pointing it at them will blind an attacker.

At least with my guns and lights at close range (10-15') the center of the light beam is where the shot will hit. Almost as good as a laser sight.

They are not really practical for most carry, although some duty holsters are available that allow you to keep the light on the gun. But on a CC pistol I still don't think they are practical. At least with current technology. Perhaps if they can make powerful lights smaller one day.

I keep one gun at home dedicated for night stand duty with a light. When I travel, or am camping, a light goes with me and at night it goes on the gun.

 

[Unconventional]

jmr40 seems to have some good advice.

I believe a light is essential from an offensive standpoint, as was the case when I employed one. I don't know what your circumstances are, or what your use will be, but for home defense, there's little reason not to have a light. For concealed carry, they can be cumbersome, which may prevent some folks from using them. This is a legitimate reason. Others don't want to take the time to get familiar with them and use sorry excuses like "you will not go into dark rooms" or some other such nonsense. I don't currently use one on my concealment gun.

You ask for purpose or use of a light in action, and it's pretty simple: target identification and discrimination. For CCW, that seems to be it's limited legal use. By virtue of the fact you're asking for reasons and drills to use with a light, I imagine you don't have extensive training and are asking from a CCW standpoint.

Becoming accustomed to turning the light on as part of the presentation of the weapon during the draw would be a focus for the training. So to answer your question about a basic drill, it depends on your shooting method, draw method, carry configuration, weapon, and weapon light. If you already have training and familiarity with your setup, then simply add the light activation in the draw.

I hope that sheds some light (derp) on the purpose of a WML.

 

[Unconventional]

Also, I think you have it backwards. The training shouldn't determine if you need a light. The need determines the training and if it's worthwhile.

 

[James K]

I have taken training with a weapon mounted light and with a light held in the off hand. I have never engaged in a gunfight with either and will gladly listen with respect to those who have.

But advocates of weapon lights never seem to want to discuss the point that a bad guy, finding himself pinned by a light in a dark room just might shoot at the light, a situation which might not be beneficial to the person holding the light in front of his face. In my training, many moons ago, I was taught to hold the flashlight in the off hand well away from my precious self so I was not caught in the light splash nor silhouetted in the light. This has, I believe, two advantages - it allows free movement of the light and it allows the light to be used without pointing the gun at something (or someone) you don't want to shoot.

Of course, in many "training scenarios", there is never a "no shoot" condition; everything is a target to be shot. One might wish that the real world were that simple.

Jim

 

[Koda94]

I have taken training with a weapon mounted light and with a light held in the off hand. I have never engaged in a gunfight with either and will gladly listen with respect to those who have.

But advocates of weapon lights never seem to want to discuss the point that a bad guy, finding himself pinned by a light in a dark room just might shoot at the light, a situation which might not be beneficial to the person holding the light in front of his face. In my training, many moons ago, I was taught to hold the flashlight in the off hand well away from my precious self so I was not caught in the light splash nor silhouetted in the light. This has, I believe, two advantages - it allows free movement of the light and it allows the light to be used without pointing the gun at something (or someone) you don't want to shoot.

Of course, in many "training scenarios", there is never a "no shoot" condition; everything is a target to be shot. One might wish that the real world were that simple.

Jim

This is why I am asking about what drills they teach, to get a basic idea of using a WML.

Im sure it has some advantages, so I am curious what those are. Obviously low light shooting I get it, but Im just curious what some of the techniques are and how they are an improvement over older techniques like the Harris hold.

 

[James K]

Since advocates of weapon-mounted lights see no disadvantages and never mention "incoming" rounds, I will let them explain how the user of a WML always wins (in the ads).

Jim

 

[Koda94]

so maybe I can clarify a little what I'm after here, those who have assumed about me are correct I don't have extensive training and my interest is from a CCW or home defense perspective. I have taken an advanced defensive handgun class (but that did not cover low light shooting obviously).

primarily I am just curious what some of the drills are they teach in these classes, how are they set up and what does the student do to perform the drill? That kind of thing...

 

[raimius]

Do you foresee a potential to use a firearm in low light? If yes, you should do some training in that environment.

As to the advantages and disadvantages of a WML, they have both. As James K noted, light sources do tend to attract incoming fire (much like firearms do during daylight). That is a serious disadvantage. Yet, only a couple hand-held techniques really address it, and they have limitations (especially in tight spaces or longer duration situations).
Where WMLs shine are in that they closely replicate a two-handed shooting grip that most of us regularly train with. Personally, I am MUCH more accurate and fast with two hands. Side benefits also include indexing the light along the aiming point, what the light points at tends to be where the gun is pointed. (That's also a con, if you don't use the splash effect.) Further, many set-ups also can free up a hand, if you use a constant on function (also has drawbacks, but sometimes you need a free hand and light).

 

[Unconventional]

Since advocates of weapon-mounted lights see no disadvantages and never mention "incoming" rounds, I will let them explain how the user of a WML always wins (in the ads).

Perhaps try some force on force training without a light against someone with a light. The pain response imparted by simunitions or UTM will square you up.

I've had to use this lesson with trainees who were reluctant to use lights, or even their NVGs for that matter.

That said, I admitted earlier that I beleieve there are legitimate reasons (disadvantages) to not carry a light on a CCW gun.

 

[Model12Win]

Keep in mind you will be accused of being a "technicool Rambo" here if you bring up weapons mounted lights.

 

[Sharkbite]

I’ll chime in here a little

I have not only taken scores of classes in low light (surefire inst amongt other locations). But have about a decade of teaching low light tactics to LE/mil and pvt contractors heading into harms way.

My guns wear WML’s. So, my POV should be clear. I like em!!

First, just because its on the gun doesnt mean you HAVE TO turn it on.
Second, there is no difference (from the badguys view) between a WML and MOST of the handheld techniques. Harries, Ayoob, Rogers, etc...all have the gun and light pretty close together. Even a neck index dosent offset the light enough to make a difference from downrange. The FBI technique (as alluded to above) DOES move the light away from the holder, but has its own problems.

In short, get the training to PROPERLY use the light and realize there is no one answer to all tactical problems. Your brain and training are the best weapons you can employ.

 

[stephen426]

I will jump into this one. I bought the Crimson Trace light/laser combo for my Glock 43. It has a switch that allows you to select light only, laser only, or combination. It goes over the trigger guard and makes the front end a bit bulkier. It does help breakup the outline a bit though.

https://www.crimsontrace.com/01-5280

As for the use of the light, I acknowledge that the light can be a target that will attract incoming rounds. It is pretty bright and can make it hard for them to see. The thing is people are rarely in a situation where there is no light at all and they would still be visible to an attacker.

The other argument against is that you are basically pointing your gun at anything you are illuminating.

Now here are the pros.
- Ease of Use: The Crimson Trace is activated by the switch on the grip, meaning that it can easily be turned off. The activation is instinctive and does not require any real thought or extra action.
- You want to clearly identify the target rather than taking a "shot in the dark".
- Your weak hand may be occupied or injured. If that is the case, you will have no light without a weapon mounted light.
- Most of us shoot way better with 2 hands rather than one handed (and the other hand far away from your body). You will be able to control the gun far better and make follow up shots faster.

In the end, decide for yourself what is right. I carry a flashlight in my pocket regardless and have a light laser combo on my carry gun.

 

[Viper225]

Several good points have been covered.
Holsters, check out custom holster makers, most now make holsters for weapon mounted lights.
Weapons lights are cheap enough for anyone to own today. However the better/more powerful the light, the higher the cost. Another thing buy a quality USA made Weapon Light. They will last for years. I have owned my WML forever. I do need to get another one that is new enough to be LED.

Not mentioned so far are Lumens. You will not want to go under 300 Lumens, but if you can afford a 600 Lumen light it is way brighter. Which gets us to battery run time. That 300 Lumen LED will probably run 2.5 hours continuous with HOT 123 batteries. The run time on a 600 Lumen light with the same HOT batteries will be down to around 1.5 hours continuous. Either will be long enough in most situations for a civilian. On the subject of HOT batteries. I recommend having a separate set of Practice Batteries. Use them at the Range and when practicing illuminating rooms or things in the yard. When done with practice, reinstall HOT Batteries. Nothing worse than dead batteries when you need them to work.
Practice operating the switch from feel. Most lights will have Momentary and Constant On. Practice will get you familiar with how the switch works. Work with Momentary quite a bit. The old saying,” When up to your chin in alligators is not the time to worry about draining the swamp” applies here. Know how to use the switch before needing it. Practice at the Range or some other safe location that you can live fire using the light. Your sights will look different looking into a light beam.
I wear a Duluth Trading Working Man’s Vest all the time. My wife calls it my Office. I have a Construction Calculator in one chest pocket, and a Note Pad in the other. My Right Lower pocket will have an ammunition carrier, 1911 Magazine, Speed Strip, or my accidentally ordered G22 10 round magazine with 7 rounds in it for Pocket Ballast, so my vest sweeps easily doing my weapon presentation. In the other lower pocket I carry a 300 Lumen LED compact flash light. I recommend carrying a flash light on you even if you have a weapon mounted light. You will use this light more than you would think.

Bob R

 

[ShaulWolf]

What purpose is the firearm that you're going to be carrying used for? Is it for duty, personal defense, home defense, or range use? That's going to be the first factor in determining if a weapon mounted light (WML) is going to be worthwhile.

For a duty gun, it's absolutely worth having a WML. Duty gnus have a very real possibility of having to get used in an offensive capacity, where you are actively searching for a hostile subject. Your gun should be out, and you will need a light to positively ID whether or not the target you have in your sights is a threat or not.

For a personal defense or home defense gun, it is beneficial. No, you will not likely be actively searching for a hostile subject, but you will still need to PID the target. This could be a robber that's approaching, and you want to get better lighting on the threat. This could be the random person that jumped out and presented themselves as a serious threat. This could be the person banging on your bedroom door trying to get in, and you want to clearly see where they are when they do break down the door.

As a range gun, it's not necessary, unless you plan to shoot a lot at night.

Why a WML over a handheld light? Firstly, the two serve two different primary tasks. A handheld light should be part of everyone's EDC kit, and it allows you to illuminate an area for everything else that doesn't require a lethal response. The secondary (and equally important) purpose for a handheld light is to provide illumination on a potential threat, and maintaining illumination while engaging said threat if it becomes a lethal threat.

A WML's primary purpose is to provide PID on a lethal threat. It is NOT purpose built for lighting up an alleyway, or finding your keys, or providing lighting on an approaching unknown person. A WML is used only when that person or thing becomes a lethal threat, and you want to use a two handed grip on your gun while maintaining illumination.

So if a handheld light can provide illumination, why use a WML? Because a WML allows the shooter to use a two handed grip while illuminating a target. A two handed grip is much more stable than any one handed grip with a light, which then allows increased accuracy, faster follow up shots, and better overall effectiveness. This translates to better hits on target, more hits on target, and being able to see if there are other threats after the initial target is down.

Now, if there are other potential threats, then you can continue to use your WML to scan and assess, and then engage if necessary. For duty use, this is an easy concept. For defensive purposes, this may or may not be necessary. However, it is still highly useful because it allows you to maintain a two handed grip, maintain illumination, and keep your area secured until law enforcement arrives.

There are a number of techniques available for use of a handheld light and WML. This is where classes and genuine instruction comes into play. You'll be able to learn how to properly use these techniques, when they are most useful, and then be able to practice what you learned. You can still learn on your own, but it's always better to see what the proper and actual application is, rather than try to do it yourself with zero experience, since this can often lead to bad habits. Again, you CAN learn on your own, but it tends to work better with genuine instruction.

IF you choose to run a WML, then you need to consider how much light you think you'll need, what size light you can practically use, cost of the WML, and cost of any accessories you need to purchase (holsters and batteries). I have half a dozen holsters that were rendered useless when I picked up my WML for duty and EDC. The cost of new holsters added up quickly.

As for how many lumens and candela? I prefer as much as possible. Yes, there is a very real possibility of light backsplashing and blinding you. This is where proper training and practice comes into play. At a minimum, I would say 300 lumens, but I would rather have a 1,000 lumen handheld and an 800 lumen WML. The more light I have, the more information I can gain from the light used, and the better my chances of completely blinding a potential threat.

Durability also needs to be accounted for. A WML is going to take a lot more abuse than a handheld light, by sheer virtue of the nature of recoil from a handgun. That's a lot of heavy jarring on an electronic system, and durability is going to be a must. Purpose built WML's will withstand this better than a cheaply made airsoft model. My go-to brands are Streamlight and Surefire. I give a heavy nod to Streamlight, because their products have been proven to be more than durable, and their price points are half of what Surefire charges.

This only scratches the surface of this topic, and there's a lot to consider. I think it covers a lot of the basics though, and if anyone else has anything to add, feel free.

ETA: my personal setup is a G22 w/ Surefure X300 for duty, and a G23 w/ Streamlight TLR-1HL for off-duty. I'll be switching to a TLR-1HL for duty use ASAP.

 

[PPGMD]

I have taken training with a weapon mounted light and with a light held in the off hand.

But advocates of weapon lights never seem to want to discuss the point that a bad guy, finding himself pinned by a light in a dark room just might shoot at the light, a situation which might not be beneficial to the person holding the light in front of his face.

Of course, in many "training scenarios", there is never a "no shoot" condition; everything is a target to be shot. One might wish that the real world were that simple.

Sounds like you have some poor training that didn't include evolutions against the instructor so you experience how effective the techniques are when employed properly, nor no shoot scenarios.

Yes I could go on and on about proper technique, and how you are wrong. But honestly these are things people need to experience themselves. Getting destroyed by a light wielding opponent, or seeing how in all but the most rural areas there is plenty of light to actually shoot with the light off (using your night sights) after PID is made are things you just have to experience to believe yourself. I highly recommend making a trip out to the Surefire academy, because I know that they do these things, at least they used to (the instructor set has changed a few times).