Onward Allusion
New member
I can tell you that a 22LR bullet fired from a 2" snub will slide/ricochet off a windshield without much damage to the windshield.
Wanna see car door; car window penetration tests?
- Thread starter DG45
- Start date
I can tell you that a 22LR bullet fired from a 2" snub will slide/ricochet off a windshield without much damage to the windshield.
A couple of old news storys come to mind.
A fireman on his way home after a long shift on his way home [San Francisco Bay Area] was foung dead. His sports car was beside the road with 7 bullet holes in the drivers side door. They looked like 45, but the caliber was not mentioned. I figured it was a 45 because thats what most magazines held in those days.
Remember Tupac Shukar, the rapper? He was riding in a high dollar ride in Las Vegas after attending the Tyson fight. Someone pulled up next to him at a stop light and pumped a few 9mms thru the door. He died a few days later.
The results are self explanatory.
A fireman on his way home after a long shift on his way home [San Francisco Bay Area] was foung dead. His sports car was beside the road with 7 bullet holes in the drivers side door. They looked like 45, but the caliber was not mentioned. I figured it was a 45 because thats what most magazines held in those days.
Remember Tupac Shukar, the rapper? He was riding in a high dollar ride in Las Vegas after attending the Tyson fight. Someone pulled up next to him at a stop light and pumped a few 9mms thru the door. He died a few days later.
The results are self explanatory.
shushirice
New member
Simple 9MM vs 380 question
What are the speeds, and penetrations of the best .380 round compared to the worst 9MM round, and why shouldn't my life depend on the most powerful .380 round instead of a 9MM? Small crippled gun hand. I've read all the posts, but still can't figure it out. All big bore boys can opt out of this one. Thanks
What are the speeds, and penetrations of the best .380 round compared to the worst 9MM round, and why shouldn't my life depend on the most powerful .380 round instead of a 9MM? Small crippled gun hand. I've read all the posts, but still can't figure it out. All big bore boys can opt out of this one. Thanks
To me, in the case of .380 versus 9mm, it isn't entirely the cartridge, it's the gun itself. Here I'm not talking size but kick. I think most 9mm pistols kick less than most .380 pistols and 9mm Makarov pistols, too. The reason is most 9mm pistols are locked breech action, most .380s are straight blowbacks. Between the two, there are few exceptions and I also realize that some will say that a 9mm is bound to kick more than any .380 but my experiences have been otherwise.
The noteworthy exceptions was the line of .380 Government Models that Colt used to produce and their variations. They shot like .22 rimfires. Another except for different reasons are the mid-size Beretta .380s and the almost identical Browning. They simply have large grips and that always helps to soften recoil.
The noteworthy exceptions was the line of .380 Government Models that Colt used to produce and their variations. They shot like .22 rimfires. Another except for different reasons are the mid-size Beretta .380s and the almost identical Browning. They simply have large grips and that always helps to soften recoil.
carguychris
New member
"Weak" 9mm vs. "Powerful" .380
"Gun Tests" magazine recently ran articles about popular .380 and 9mm Luger self-defense loads. Both were tested using a 5" barrel. The fastest .380 load was Federal 90gr Hydra-Shoks @ 980 fps, while the highest muzzle energy was Fiocchi 95gr FMJ @ 197 ft-lb. OTOH the slowest 9mm Luger load was Speer 124gr Gold Dots @ 1,101 fps, and the lowest muzzle energy was Hornady 115gr FTXs @ 329 ft-lb. They really don't compare.
"Gun Tests" magazine recently ran articles about popular .380 and 9mm Luger self-defense loads. Both were tested using a 5" barrel. The fastest .380 load was Federal 90gr Hydra-Shoks @ 980 fps, while the highest muzzle energy was Fiocchi 95gr FMJ @ 197 ft-lb. OTOH the slowest 9mm Luger load was Speer 124gr Gold Dots @ 1,101 fps, and the lowest muzzle energy was Hornady 115gr FTXs @ 329 ft-lb. They really don't compare.
As an engineer I like looking at specifications and crunching numbers. I have spent a good deal of time playing around with terminal performance figures for various handgun calibers and they definitely break into categories that I call performance classes. While the argument can be made that within a given performance class there's not a lot of difference in terminal performance between the calibers, when you look at the differences between performance classes it's a different story.
The .380ACP is in the performance class that I call the "Pocket Pistol" class while the 9mm is in the performance class that I call the "Service Pistol" class.
All of the service pistol class members are capable of penetrating at least 12" with expanding ammunition. None of the pocket pistol class can reliably do that with expanding ammunition.
I carry a .380ACP from time to time, and there's no denying that a .380ACP can save your life, but that doesn't mean it can duplicate or approach the performance you would get from a pistol in the service pistol performance class.
The .380ACP is in the performance class that I call the "Pocket Pistol" class while the 9mm is in the performance class that I call the "Service Pistol" class.
All of the service pistol class members are capable of penetrating at least 12" with expanding ammunition. None of the pocket pistol class can reliably do that with expanding ammunition.
I carry a .380ACP from time to time, and there's no denying that a .380ACP can save your life, but that doesn't mean it can duplicate or approach the performance you would get from a pistol in the service pistol performance class.
Hagar the Republican
New member
I'm a college history teacher, and I had a LEO in one of my classes. I was very interested in his stories. He said that one night he was fired at by a guy in a fancy pimped ride. He fired back and put nine holes in the door of the car with a 9mm. The felon had a revolver and threw it out after firing his 6 shots and put his hands up. After he pulled the guy out of the car he saw that NONE of his rounds had penetrated the door. He said that after that he always grabbed his 870 when he exited the car.
I guess it depends on the car door.
I guess it depends on the car door.
If true, and likely it is not true but a bit of an exaggeration and embellishment, than the results here are not typical.
9mm has a reputation as a good penetrator particularly of auto doors and auto bodies. It has been doing that for a long time.
I linked earlier to the box 0' truth website where they shot through windshield glass on a Buick with 9mm, 40 S&W, .357 Sig and 45 acp. All penetrated the windshield and side window glass. IIRC 22lr did not penetrate the windshield. But .22 lr did penetrate the side window glass.
There are a good many videos over to you tube of people shooting various vehicles with a variety of guns. You can look at those.
tipoc
I don't have any doubts that the 12 pellet magnum buck or any of my rifled slugs would effectively blast through a car wind shield to stop a charging bad guy. However tactical or managed recoil 8 or 9 pellet buck would be better suited for urban home defense do to less penetration and power. Also a shotgun with buckshot has a higher hit potential. Its difficult to generalize the performance of versatile 12 gauge shotgun and its large catalog of shells of varying performance levels.
I posted earlier a link to brass fletcher. The following type of tests are sprinkled throughout the test results for various calibers. Just poke around and look for them...
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Speer 124gr +P Gold Dot versus automobile windshield and gelatin.html
tipoc
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Speer 124gr +P Gold Dot versus automobile windshield and gelatin.html
tipoc