I am seriously looking at the S&W 360 J-frame. less than 12oz. For the kind of weight 5 shot is not bad, anything close to this weight semi is only around 6 shot. You cannot beat the reliability of a revolver. 360 is just very expensive.
Trying to understand the point of over accessorizing your CCW.
- Thread starter Sigkid79
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I am seriously looking at the S&W 360 J-frame. less than 12oz. For the kind of weight 5 shot is not bad, anything close to this weight semi is only around 6 shot. You cannot beat the reliability of a revolver. 360 is just very expensive.
There was a time when the selection of handguns was quite limited. Customization was almost a necessity if you wanted something to fit your specific requirements perfectly.
Now customization is largely done for fun because the selection is staggering. It's pretty easy to find a gun that fits your needs without having to make a bunch of changes.
Customization is ok as long as people understand what they are doing and the ramifications.
For example, I've seen a couple of law enforcement shooting videos where the officer dropped his magazine unintentionally while shooting. That's kind of a bad thing.
I've seen people scoff at the magazine brake in some CZ pistols that prevents the magazine from dropping free. I've seen gun writers go nuts about gun designs that prevented magazines from dropping free. I've seen people modify carry guns to add extended magazine releases. What's really important?
An extra fraction of a second required to strip a mag during a reload is way better than pulling your gun and finding you have only the round in the chamber because your mag dropped out at some point during the day.
Dumping a loaded mag in the middle of the gunfight because the extended mag release accidentally got activated is infinitely worse than having to stretch your thumb a bit to release the mag.
While I think that customization is not nearly as important as it once was, there are still constructive changes that can be made. It's just important to be sure that they are really constructive changes.
Now customization is largely done for fun because the selection is staggering. It's pretty easy to find a gun that fits your needs without having to make a bunch of changes.
Customization is ok as long as people understand what they are doing and the ramifications.
For example, I've seen a couple of law enforcement shooting videos where the officer dropped his magazine unintentionally while shooting. That's kind of a bad thing.
I've seen people scoff at the magazine brake in some CZ pistols that prevents the magazine from dropping free. I've seen gun writers go nuts about gun designs that prevented magazines from dropping free. I've seen people modify carry guns to add extended magazine releases. What's really important?
An extra fraction of a second required to strip a mag during a reload is way better than pulling your gun and finding you have only the round in the chamber because your mag dropped out at some point during the day.
Dumping a loaded mag in the middle of the gunfight because the extended mag release accidentally got activated is infinitely worse than having to stretch your thumb a bit to release the mag.
While I think that customization is not nearly as important as it once was, there are still constructive changes that can be made. It's just important to be sure that they are really constructive changes.
YES!!!!!! And a pocket holster, too!
Yep, everyone should own one or two J-frames just to round out your CCW equipment, because sometimes a J frame is the difference between being armed and not, and while they require a bit of practice, they can be shot a lot better than many might think.
I own 3 J-frame, M37 and two M36. They are not hard to shoot. Of cause they are not accurate at 25yds, but they're not meant to be that. recoil never bother me.
The weight of 360 is as light as it gets. It's definitely more reliable than semi auto of similar weight, just a little thicker. Sure a lot lighter than my Walther PPKS.
I don't like using a holster putting on my back, it's too uncomfortable when you sit trying to rest the back onto the chair. I rather put in pocket of jacket. That's when weight is everything.
Of someone shows me a carry glock 19 with a rmr, a light, an extended mag, threaded barrel, and whatever else, with 2 extra magaines, the first question I ask is "so do you clear houses for a living or just enjoy taking strolls at night in bad parts of town?" 2nd question is "how is you sciatic nerve doing?" I carry a glock 48 with 1 extra mag or a LCP II here in FL. If I was law enforcement I'd certainly have a bigger load out. Luckily I live in a safe neighborhood, don't go urban exploring, and just keep my eyes and ears open when I'm out.
Just as easy to conceal as a 26....
Have you tried shooting an RMR yet? Doesn't add any appreciable size or weight difference and the benefits are tremendous if you invest the time and effort into training with it.
I tend to agree with you here, but tech is evolving and there are some pretty small lights, I probably still won't carry one and I am pretty bad about even having a flashlight on me or in my car.
What's extended? If I do carry a spare magazine its a 17 round. That being said I almost never carry a spare magazine. Even on the days I just carry a Sig 938.
No difference in how it carries at all. For those whose one pistol is a do everything pistol, why not?
As someone who rarely carries a spare magazine, I can ask you the same question regarding clearing houses. But you carry that because it works for you, your plan and your mindset.
What I'm trying to get at here is that what someone carries fits THEIR needs, not yours. For every anecdote given in this thread about a certain type of people seen at the range I can easily counter with several about boomers and their 1911s or J-frames that load and make ready behind the firing line, point their muzzles parallel to the firing line when attempting to clear a malfunction or just trying to show off their toys to their friends.... behind the firing line. Trying to project your image of CCW onto others does not work. Yes, there are some legitimately stupid carry choices out there, but blanket statements about all types of carry that aren't yours really are not productive. Open up your minds, maybe you'll learn something.
Ignition Override
New member
I've never owned a scope, light or such for any handgun or rifle. And I'm 67.
All of my multiple rifles and handguns have remained stock, except for a muzzle brake on the VZ-58.
But boy - if I only knew how to buy these components wholesale and $ell them for a maximum retail price!
All of my multiple rifles and handguns have remained stock, except for a muzzle brake on the VZ-58.
But boy - if I only knew how to buy these components wholesale and $ell them for a maximum retail price!
In self defense, it's mostly close distance. All the light, lazer, scope stuff are just over killed. I think some people just like gadgets. For CCW, less is more, just have the truly necessities. Spend the time and money to practice to become a better shooter!!! Seen so many people in the shooting range having all the fancy "toys" on the bench, that's all they have to show and tell, don't look at the target.
I think a lot of the weight increasing customization has to do with how these folks train and what their goals are.
My goals are to be fast, smooth and concealed with my pistol. I tend to spend money on ammo and holsters and practice time after I buy the gun. Few accessories…maybe sights or a small trigger change.
If I were being driven by high round count, high target count, timer based training, then I suppose I would slowly morph my ccw into a race gun which is what we are seeing. Heavy guns with huge mags, dot sights and mag wells will always improve timer results for someone putting in the effort.
The question then becomes are you really carrying that 50oz safetiless race gun with a 2lb trigger pointed at your junk?
My goals are to be fast, smooth and concealed with my pistol. I tend to spend money on ammo and holsters and practice time after I buy the gun. Few accessories…maybe sights or a small trigger change.
If I were being driven by high round count, high target count, timer based training, then I suppose I would slowly morph my ccw into a race gun which is what we are seeing. Heavy guns with huge mags, dot sights and mag wells will always improve timer results for someone putting in the effort.
The question then becomes are you really carrying that 50oz safetiless race gun with a 2lb trigger pointed at your junk?
Adding an RMR that weighs 1.2 oz. isn’t likely to impact your speed or smoothness. A light like the TLR-7A weighs 2.4 oz. and holsters made for lights, even concealment holsters, are pretty fast. Weight wise such a setup is an additional 3.6 oz. total. That’s a far cry from a 50 oz. pistol. None of this means you have to modify the trigger weight at the same time, though I’m sure some do (keep in mind people modify triggers on handguns without these items, too). My trigger is a stock Gen 5 Glock. I didn’t even polish the connector.
As for money on ammo and practice time, I shoot about 800 rd of 9mm a month, go to the range once a week, and I do about 4-6 training courses a year on various topics with instructors of different backgrounds. I mention this because I’m now seeing the comments that training and gear are mutually exclusive. Training can motivate gear purchases, as Nathan mentioned. But even in that case it doesn’t mean a person has to go full race gun. There are loads of options in between.
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I’m just saying big heavy race guns are the fastest. If we train to a timer as our main measure for ccw, then moving towards a race gun is the natural flow.
I train more to the ASP training mentality, what are the situations? How can I size and weight my ccw to make sure it is on me more if the time.
I originally carried a j frame 640. It just seemed like the right ccw. As I became timer conscious, I moved to a 5” 1911. I soon realized my threat level didn’t require a big gun.
Then I moved to a Shield, I carried it a lot more. I have swam with it twice. How many times has your carry gun been swimming!
Now I’m seeing my P380 in a pair of gym shorts too often, so I’m trying to move into a s&w 340(wish it were cut for moon clips!) in an Enigma. We’ll see, I need to get it back from s&w, train with it, develop my ideal enigma setup, etc.
I train more to the ASP training mentality, what are the situations? How can I size and weight my ccw to make sure it is on me more if the time.
I originally carried a j frame 640. It just seemed like the right ccw. As I became timer conscious, I moved to a 5” 1911. I soon realized my threat level didn’t require a big gun.
Then I moved to a Shield, I carried it a lot more. I have swam with it twice. How many times has your carry gun been swimming!
Now I’m seeing my P380 in a pair of gym shorts too often, so I’m trying to move into a s&w 340(wish it were cut for moon clips!) in an Enigma. We’ll see, I need to get it back from s&w, train with it, develop my ideal enigma setup, etc.
I don’t have an issue carrying my firearm on me. It’s comfortable for me. If someone wants to carry something else because the same isn’t true for them that makes sense. Just because race guns might be the fastest doesn’t mean a person has to go full race gun as there are practically unlimited combinations between stock pistol and full race gun.
My point, going way back to my first response on this thread, is that there seems to be an awful lot of judgement passed on what is or isn’t the right carry setup, and often this is based on incorrect data (like how much certain attachments weigh). On the scale of things I care about what you personally choose to carry ranks pretty far down the list. You evaluate your risks and choose what works for you, the same is true for me.
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My point, going way back to my first response on this thread, is that there seems to be an awful lot of judgement passed on what is or isn’t the right carry setup, and often this is based on incorrect data (like how much certain attachments weigh). On the scale of things I care about what you personally choose to carry ranks pretty far down the list. You evaluate your risks and choose what works for you, the same is true for me.
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Doc Intrepid
New member
The only comment I'd offer is that I'd bet 90+% of US pistoleros practice in daylight.
Most public ranges I'm familiar with don't allow shooting after dark. Shooters might shoot after dark while camping in a National Forest, perhaps, but not routinely - and there are folks out and about even there who might take it amiss.
After falling in with a group that works a private range, and holding numerous night training shoots, I've developed a new appreciation for the use of flashlights while shooting in the dark. I'm the only member who doesn't mount a flashlight on a rail, and while I'm comfortable with that it makes the reloads more complex.
It's also astonishing how many small things you wouldn't consider are more difficult in utter darkness. We even unconsciously use peripheral vision to assist with reholstering, not to mention scanning the area for other threats, etc.
The point is, as we've all heard, the gunfight you find yourself in isn't necessarily the gunfight you envisioned and trained for. Gunfights in darkness benefit from practice in darkness. If you only practice in daylight, you may not recognize the utility of having a number of small flashlights (or head lamps) on your person (or mounted on your rail) to facilitate a night encounter.
I'm betting guys carry at night all the time, who've never actually trained in darkness.
Most public ranges I'm familiar with don't allow shooting after dark. Shooters might shoot after dark while camping in a National Forest, perhaps, but not routinely - and there are folks out and about even there who might take it amiss.
After falling in with a group that works a private range, and holding numerous night training shoots, I've developed a new appreciation for the use of flashlights while shooting in the dark. I'm the only member who doesn't mount a flashlight on a rail, and while I'm comfortable with that it makes the reloads more complex.
It's also astonishing how many small things you wouldn't consider are more difficult in utter darkness. We even unconsciously use peripheral vision to assist with reholstering, not to mention scanning the area for other threats, etc.
The point is, as we've all heard, the gunfight you find yourself in isn't necessarily the gunfight you envisioned and trained for. Gunfights in darkness benefit from practice in darkness. If you only practice in daylight, you may not recognize the utility of having a number of small flashlights (or head lamps) on your person (or mounted on your rail) to facilitate a night encounter.
I'm betting guys carry at night all the time, who've never actually trained in darkness.
Sounds like there are others that agree with me!!!
You can find people that are into gadgets in all different hobby and things. To me, all the heavy stuffs are gadgets. The story is different if one is out looking for trouble like a job that needs a gun. For self defense, you must be joking!!! You carry 99.9% out and carry it back without even pulling it out. You always dealing at close distance within a few ft. Dark or bright, does it matter? If you have to chase after the guy, that's not self defense already. I hate to keep saying, from years of going to the range every week, there are too many "camouflages"!!!
BTW, I am glad others mention S&W 340 or 360, nothing flashy, I bet people into gadgets laugh at this. I think it's a good choice. Hell, I have a few Freedom Arms .22 Magnum, those are better than nothing, it's NOT just .22, people should feel the difference in the kick and the recoil. It's better than a knife!!! It can be carry in any pocket.
You can find people that are into gadgets in all different hobby and things. To me, all the heavy stuffs are gadgets. The story is different if one is out looking for trouble like a job that needs a gun. For self defense, you must be joking!!! You carry 99.9% out and carry it back without even pulling it out. You always dealing at close distance within a few ft. Dark or bright, does it matter? If you have to chase after the guy, that's not self defense already. I hate to keep saying, from years of going to the range every week, there are too many "camouflages"!!!
BTW, I am glad others mention S&W 340 or 360, nothing flashy, I bet people into gadgets laugh at this. I think it's a good choice. Hell, I have a few Freedom Arms .22 Magnum, those are better than nothing, it's NOT just .22, people should feel the difference in the kick and the recoil. It's better than a knife!!! It can be carry in any pocket.
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This is what I was referring to above. The tendency to be judgmental. It’s even more bizarre in a community that finds itself constantly being judged by people outside of it and generally doesn’t like the stereotypes that are assigned to it, but has no problem doing it to its own members (I mean gun owners in general, not just this forum).
Having sights and lights isn’t about going on the offensive. It’s about giving yourself tools to deal with potential situations, or in my case it’s about helping me see, which is pretty fundamental. I have taken a 2 day reflexive shooting course based on the teachings of Bob Taubert, who was a big proponent of the skill as an instructor with the FBI. It is a useful skill. It’s also not the only skill. There are absolutely distances where the time it takes us to fully acquire our sights makes up for the time it takes to deliver shots on target because of the additional accuracy and precision afforded by having sights. Chris Baker did an excellent video on the topic:
https://youtu.be/xfX0TmMMJFc
In my opinion, red dots are a further move in that direction by (once practiced) allowing easier shots on target and more target focus, which is part of what reflexive shooting allows. Even if you have a red dot you can still shoot reflexively, it’s not mutually exclusive.
There’s always this tendency when it comes to firearms to say that most self defense shootings are close range and it’s all point shooting. Look at the recent shooting at the mall in Indiana. https://www.usacarry.com/40-yards-elisjsha-dicken-landed-shots-mall-shooter/. I’m not using this shooting to say all such shootings will be the same. I’m using it to point out that there are always exceptions and that old adages may not come true. Chris Baker, once again, did a video where he tried to find data on the true distance of a “typical” self defense shooting:
https://youtu.be/l81Qs096Nho
If the counter to this argument is that it’s unlikely to shoot at longer distances, I would agree. However, needing a firearm for self defense in the first place is unlikely. If a person is going to carry a firearm to deal with an unlikely risk, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to want to deal with other unlikely risks. A red dot is only an additional 1.2 oz. and can come in various sizes. It’s not, at least for me, significantly more effort to carry with such a thing. Again, if someone choose not to that’s fine. But calling people that choose to do so “armchair commandos” is a bit much, imo. I’ve taken a few course now with Kyle Lamb, former Sergeant Major in the US Army with over 15 years in Delta Force. I’m under no illusion that I am as skilled as him and I am not bringing him up as an appeal to authority. I bring him up because he carries a P365 concealed with a red dot. If a Silver Star recipient of his experience meets the definition of an “armchair commando”, then I wonder who isn’t.
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Double Naught Spy
New member
I don't spend much time worrying about what others or carrying or what others think about what I am carrying. If it works well for them, that is all that matters. What I carry works well for me.
rice paddy daddy
New member
All of my firearms remain close to the way they left the factory.
Handguns, long guns.
We live on a small farm in a rural/very small town atmosphere with an extremely low violent crime rate.
I mostly pocket carry, although i occasionally carry 4" .38 Special and .357 magnum. And sometimes a full size Colt Government Model 45 Automatic.
At age 73, I prefer to keep things simple.
Lights? The only time i need a light is to check on the chickens and livestock after dark.
Handguns, long guns.
We live on a small farm in a rural/very small town atmosphere with an extremely low violent crime rate.
I mostly pocket carry, although i occasionally carry 4" .38 Special and .357 magnum. And sometimes a full size Colt Government Model 45 Automatic.
At age 73, I prefer to keep things simple.
Lights? The only time i need a light is to check on the chickens and livestock after dark.