This is why you want a steel pistol

[BGutzman]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/how-did-this-border-patrol-agents-gun-snap-in-half/

Rethinking that Glock or H&K yet? I know this cant happen often but apparently it still does happen. What are your thoughts on this incident?

 

[ohen cepel]

I'm not a polymer fan. However, it looks that that may have been enough force to have also bent a Al or steel framed gun to the point it wouldn't work either.

Again, I prefer metal, but this wouldn't be the reason I would change if I was a polymer guy.

 

[mete]

What stupid responses .It immediately turned into a AK-47 arguement !!

Not familiar with the gun ,nor polymers so I can't really comment.

 

[balance]

I'm pretty sure the guy who had that accident is happy that the pistol was made of polymer.

Where would that force have gone if not to the pistol?

 

[TunnelRat]

Man this picture just won't die. It's already been discussed on this forum once. Just made the rounds on the HK forums. It's been around for a few months.

I'm tired of discussing it. No, it in no may makes me reconsider my purchase of a polymer pistol, and I even own a HK P2000. A ~ 200 lb man falling off of an atv at speed onto hard, uneven ground, using a holster system that holds the pistol out from the body further increasing the amount of impact it would take? No I really don't expect the pistol to survive that. As others have mentioned, what would have happened if it didn't break? I'd rather the gun take that force and break then something on me break. I take a lot longer to heal than it does for my armory to replace my service weapon.

Another thing I find fishy, as has been pointed out before, is that the SERPA holster shows no breakage. I can't quite grasp how enough force would have been transferred to the firearm to cause a breakage while leaving the SERPA intact.

 

[sigcurious]

Metal or polymer, I think the possibility of damage was there. Falling off an atv depending on the circumstances could generate pretty large forces. I'd rather have something that failed completely and broke, than something that looked ok but was damaged and possibly unsafe.

 

[balance]

Another thing I find fishy, as has been pointed out before, is that the SERPA holster shows no breakage. I can't quite grasp how enough force would have been transferred to the firearm to cause a breakage while leaving the SERPA intact.

I assume the guy landed on his side.

I don't think someone would fake an ATV accident to explain a broken pistol.

 

[tahunua001]

that story is BS. people ruitinely run over glocks, M&Ps, XD/XDMs and other polymer pistols as well as throwing them off cliffs, rooftops, out of planes, at concrete walls, smash them with hammers and just find new ways to abuse them to prove their durability. some guy falling off a 4 wheeler onto his gun is not going to break it. he was more than likely doing something stupid and trying to prove how tough his super expensive Heckler and Koch is and snapped it off and then realized that he voided the warranty so he came up with the bogus story of wrecking the 4 wheeler.

the plastic that his holster is made out of is cheaper and thinner than the plastic in the gun so if it is true his holster would have given way before his gun did. also the magazine is entirely intact even though the break is a good inch below the top of the mag meaning it should have been bent when the handle torqued off.

I am no fan of H&K but I smell a setup.

 

[ShipWreck]

Man this picture just won't die. It's already been discussed on this forum once. Just made the rounds on the HK forums. It's been around for a few months.

Yes, no kidding. Old news, as far as I am concerned. Not a issue to make you buy any gun over another

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Re. the commentary in the link, and steel guns:

The reason the AK-47 is so widely used is that there are MILLIONS of them available. Good design, to be sure; very functional. And cheap new, and cheaper still, used.

But if the Communist countries hadn't cranked them out like they were popcorn for 40+ years, and shipped them to every country in the Middle East, Asia and Africa where they had hopes of expanding their influence, the AKs wouldn't be that prevalent.

 

[TunnelRat]

I don't think someone would fake an ATV accident to explain a broken pistol.

Don't remember saying that. Oh wait, I didn't!

But hell for the sake of argument, where is the crashed ATV in those pictures? I can't see it. Do I think this is a grand conspiracy? No, not really. Am I willing to 100% believe some random pictures on the internet that only show a broken gun and give some story to go with it with no proof? No, not really.

I assume the guy landed on his side.

Even the author makes note of how a field officer said it must have been the "torque" that broke it. That "torque" would have also acted on the SERPA. Unless somehow the grip got wedged in something. If this is real, it is a 1 in a million shot.

 

[TunnelRat]

also the magazine is entirely intact even though the break is a good inch below the top of the mag meaning it should have been bent when the handle torqued off.

+1

 

[balance]

Don't remember saying that. Oh wait, I didn't!

Well, then what were you saying?

Even the author makes note of how a field officer said it must have been the "torque" that broke it. That "torque" would have also acted on the SERPA. Unless somehow the grip got wedged in something. If this is real, it is a 1 in a million shot.

I'm sure there are a lot of imaginable and unimaginable ways this could have happened. I point out that I wasn't there either, but I don't find this too hard to believe. I don't "just" believe it because it is on the internet.

The holster has scuff marks on the side in that picture as well. If the grip was all that took the impact, those marks shouldn't be there. Also, it is possible that the pistols was pulled out of the holster in the accident, and was put back in for the picture.

I don't know, but if I owned a P2000, this story wouldn't bother me in any way, real or faked.

 

[TunnelRat]

Well, then what were you saying?

Another thing I find fishy, as has been pointed out before, is that the SERPA holster shows no breakage. I can't quite grasp how enough force would have been transferred to the firearm to cause a breakage while leaving the SERPA intact.

^That's what I said.

Nowhere do I read the work "fake". I didn't "say" anything of the sort. If your argument was that was what I was "implying", well I might be inclined to agree with you. However, all I said was it seemed "fishy". And that I "couldn't grasp". I don't quite think this story meshes, but hey, maybe some details were left out. Or maybe they weren't.

 

[balance]

Another thing I find fishy, as has been pointed out before, is that the SERPA holster shows no breakage. I can't quite grasp how enough force would have been transferred to the firearm to cause a breakage while leaving the SERPA intact.

^That's what I said.

Yes it is.

Nowhere do I read the work "fake". I didn't "say" anything of the sort. If your argument was that was what I was "implying", well I might be inclined to agree with you. However, all I said was it seemed "fishy". And that I "couldn't grasp". I don't quite think this story meshes, but hey, maybe some details were left out. Or maybe they weren't.

Honestly, that's what I took from your post, but I was more than likely wrong going by your later responses. I have no arguement with you TunnelRat.

To the OP of this thread and that link, if there were some issue with polymer pistols not being able to take abuse, I'm sure there would be more reports by now.

 

[rem44m]

I don't think the material the gun was made out of really mattered. Prob would have bent the mag well of a 1911 enough that it was in operable anyway.

I flipped over my mountain bike right onto my G27 on my hip and it is completely fine. So as far as I'm concerned the polymer passed my accidental test.

So for me, I don't think this pic merits me changing anything. The force of hitting the ground is the real concern here.

The only thing this photo tells me to change is maybe carry a BUG when four wheeling

 

[Coach Z]

Given the forces involved I'd be pretty happy that the pistol gave up rather then transferring that energy to an internal organ. That was a perfect application of the polymer.

 

[BGutzman]

That was a perfect application of the polymer.

Wow failure is now a good application? Not in my world... The bottom line is this cant be happening often but had this happened during a shootout this guy would probably be pushing up daisies...

Bones can mend from fractures even from mighty falls but a pistol brake of this kind... thats a different thing especially if you were under fire and took a hard fall.

Dont get me wrong I do own some poly but it does make you think just a little.

 

[tahunua001]

The bottom line is this cant be happening often but had this happened during a shootout this guy would probably be pushing up daisies...

really? really?
first of all, there is a lot of holes in the complainant's story.
1. why wasn't the holster damaged when it has lighter construction than the gun?
2. why wasn't the magazine damaged when it was inside the snapped frame?
3. what other casualties are there besides a snapped off grip? 4 wheeler? self? endangered mountain spruce beetles?

second, who in their right mind is going to be opening fire while participating in a high speed 4 wheeler chase? that is just plain nonsense.

 

[BGutzman]

really? really?
first of all, there is a lot of holes in the complainant's story.
1. why wasn't the holster damaged when it has lighter construction than the gun?
2. why wasn't the magazine damaged when it was inside the snapped frame?
3. what other casualties are there besides a snapped off grip? 4 wheeler? self? endangered mountain spruce beetles?

second, who in their right mind is going to be opening fire while participating in a high speed 4 wheeler chase? that is just plain nonsense.

I wasnt there nor do I think anyone here in this forum was. It could be the facts are as presented even if CSI hasnt found the DNA in the bottom of the holster..

However supposedly Buz Mills from Gunsite reported just such a incident only involving a iron 4 wheeled or hoved as the case may be horse. http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/firing-line/70593-border-patrol-agents-broken-half-plastic-guns.html

Now I havent call Buz but if you know him maybe you can ask him about it... Lastly Im not proposing a gun fight while 4 wheeling, what I am saying is falls can happen anytime doing anything and if you fall and your gun breaks during a self defense situation the game may well be over.

You are welcome to CSI it all you want, or maybe it could be just what was reported.. It would make sense to me if a less stiff plastic flexed instead of breaking... Probably appropriate for a holster but not so much for a gun which is why the plastic handle broke.