The Taurus Judge: guys, we gotta talk. Seriously. Rant alert!

[hogcowboy]

I have a serious problem with Taurus/S&W marketing these things as SD weapons. That problem is exacerbated by the perception marketers have created that these things are ideal SD guns for newbies.

I agree with you on that point. It is not the ideal weapon. But you could always argue you was shooting snakes before you had to use what you had to protect yourself. I have one just for snakes. And I hope I never have to use it for anything else. But if I have to I will and deal with the fallout then. I've had this very discussion before. The overwhelming opinion is to shoot with what ever you have. If that happens to be bird shot next up, use it. But marketing the gun as a end all to end all is wrong. I agree. Don't if this will work or not be here is a link to a 'what if' scenario http://www.usconcealedcarry.com/forum/showthread.php?32450-What-Would-You-Do-Scenario This is not specific to a Judge but it is to 'ratshot' and a .410 is just big ratshot.

 

[microman]

To me they are more for just fun at the range and not serious
SD.

I don't have anything against the Judge or Taurus for that matter.
Just need to educate people who think its a portable shotgun

 

[MLeake]

It's not about being "Superman."

Quite frankly, I don't enjoy getting hit with paintballs, and am not about to volunteer to get hit with any sort of shot; rock salt; whatever.

However, if I want to stop a person, I want decent odds of a physiological stop, not just a psychological stop. There are people out there who deal with pain better than most.

The problem with hoping for a psychological stop is that things can develop in unintended ways. Pain can cause one to flee (and often will), but there are two standard possibilities when the body kicks into "fight or flight" mode. (Note that one of them is not "flight.")

From personal experience, in hand to hand scenarios (on and off the mat), I know there's a fine line between "Ow, that hurts, I think I'll tap out now," and "Sonuva!!! That hurt!!... It's payback time!!!." If level 2 gets achieved, watch out, until enough power is brought to achieve a physiological stop.

With regard to this discussion, the question then becomes this:

Given similar (or less) weight and overall bulk, am I better off with a Judge, with five rounds of radically reduced shot loads, five weak slug loads, or five .45LC which might or might not be usefully accurate; or am I better off with, say, my FNX-9 with 18 rounds of Hornady 147gr TAP, which will reliably expand to .55 or so while penetrating 14"? Note: recoil in the FNX is minimal, the trigger is easy, and keeping all shots from a 50rd box in the triangle between center of the mouth and the pupils of both eyes is relatively easy at 7 yards. (Not on a moving target, of course, but just for relative accuracy comparison.)

Staying in the similar size and weight category, I could toss in an FNX-40 with 15 rounds of .40; my DW CBOB .45acp; any of my revolvers... you get the idea.

Would I want to have somebody shoot at me with a Judge loaded with birdshot? No.

But given a choice between somebody firing that at me, or somebody shooting a normal SD handgun at me, I'd opt for the Judge every day of the week. Odds of survival would be higher. It would suck, but odds are it would not suck as much as getting shot at with a 9mm, .40, .45, etc.

 

[Auto426]

I've got no problem with people buying them for a fun gun or for snake defense. My grandfather bought one because in the swamp during the warmer months snakes are a huge concern. He soon found out that it wasn't useful for much else.

I think the real problem lies with inexperienced gun buyers who think they are buying a full fledged shotgun in a revolver package. They think that its a super effective weapon to use for self defense or home defense, and that's simply not true. There are far better and much more proven options out there.

 

[M4BGRINGO]

Self-defense, no. A fun gun for the range, YES! Have shot one a few times, it is fun, that's it, nothing more. No snakes around here, lots of squirells, but not allowed to shoot them.

 

[medic15al]

The Judge is a great snake gun for carrying on the hip out of the way when working around the blame critters.

The snobbery in OPs post is really something that we dont need, hard enough as it is fighting the antis.

And I BUG a small 9mm, and am comfortable with it. I guess the OP wants to use a .25 or .32 since they were designed for that size.

Taurus bashing results from ignorance and internet hype. I have had Taurus guns that have been more reliable (and accurate) than some Glocks or SIGs I have owned.

Dont be so high and mighty, your opinion doesnt mean any more than anybody else's.

 

[mrgoodwrench76]

His opinion means a lot more to me than some....most, especially yours. The whole problem with Taurus in general is that their not consistant. They aparantly place no emphasis on quality controll and putting out a good product the FIRST time. If this wern't the case, there wouldn't be so many people bashing them.

The Judge is what it is and I dont beleive it falls into the catagory of a good self defense weapon but thats my OPINION. Everybody has one and is welcome to post it here as long as it falls within the guidelines established by this site.

 

[natman]

Note to moderators:

Please create a thread for members that have an opinion on a firearm they don't own or haven't shot. Then I don't/won't have to wade through all of the posts that provide zero information (to me).

Maybe I'll post "information" about the 11,418 firearms that I don't own....

So you're only supposed to post about guns you own? Pretty weak argument. I don't own a Judge, but I find the OP's arguments pretty convincing. I don't own a Remington 770 either, but I don't have to own one to know I don't want to.

Since you HAVE TO own a Judge (since you posted here), then why don't you give us the benefit of your experience? If you disagree with any of the OP's points, then belly up to the bar and disprove them.

 

[kraigwy]

Any gun can be fun if you arn't on some sort of bashing trip.

My wife wanted a Judge thinking it would be great for horse back riding. We live in rattler country. She had a point, she's whacked a couple already, also got some in the yard.

The 45 LCs arn't near as bad as some of you let on, I load 250 grn cast SWCs with 5.4 grns of 231, mild and accurate.

Now you want to talk about fun, I have one of those little clay target throwers where the guy sets on the seat and works the thrower.

Now take the judge with some #6 shot, trip the thrower, draw and fire, see how many clay pigons you can get. Talk about fun.

If you guys would spend more time playing and having fun, and less time bitching, you'll find a use for anything.

 

[jimbob86]

novelty and good sales techniques.

So it is a good sales technique to take advantage of the "ballistically innumerate"? The ads I recall seeing inferred that this thing was the bee's knees for personal defense: set in a dark parking garage, where a lady in heels pulls a Judge out of her purse... cut to exploding watermellons...

.....or citing car jacking on the rise while showning a shredded Shoot'n'see target.......

Not a dang thing about "novelty".

I thought Taurus was a bull ....... A snake would be a better emblem.

 

[microman]

set in a dark parking garage, where a lady in heels pulls a Judge out of her purse... cut to exploding watermellons...

I watch a lot of personal defense tv. Gosh I got so tired of that
Taurus commercial.

 

[hogcowboy]

Ya'll have to admit, if it wasn't for the Judge, there would not have been any improvement/change to .410 ammunition. Someone must believe it's a good defense weapon or is the PDX ammo a novelty as well.

 

[jimbob86]

Someone must believe it's a good defense weapon or is the PDX ammo a novelty as well.

The ballistically innumerate believe! It must be so: They saw it on the Tee-Vee!!!!

Perception of the marketplace has becoume more important than physics.

If you market a thing well enough, you can sell it to the uninformed.

 

[jimbob86]

The PDX stuff is better than birdshot, but that is damning with faint praise.

 

[mavracer]

Ya'll have to admit, if it wasn't for the Judge, there would not have been any improvement/change to .410 ammunition.

Even with the improvements it's no better for self defense than a good 45 colt load would be. IMHO a Charter Arms Bulldog is just as good of snake/personal defense gun in a damn sight smaller package.

 

[THplanes]

Fixed link in first post

 

[Smaug]

The funny thing about them is that they seem to be selling like hotcakes. (at least new)

If they weren't, I don't think Taurus would be making so many iterations, and I don't think S&W would've jumped on the bandwagon either.

Lots of uninformed buyers out there. That, or folks who want useless fun guns that take expensive ammo.

 

[Old Grump]

Blasted burglar, says LR caterer
www.ardemgaz.com ^ | 20 JAN 11 | dcbryan1

Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:06:27 AM by DCBryan1

Police beat

ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

Blasted burglar, says LR caterer The owner of Chatz Smoked Meats and Catering told Little Rock police that he shot a man who was trying to burglarize his business Tuesday night.

According to a police report, Frank Chatwood, who owns the catering company at 8801 Colonel Glenn Road, was at his business around 10:50 p.m. when he heard a noise and saw a man throw a rock through a window.

While the man was trying to climb through the window, Chatwood pulled out a Tarus Judge revolver, which uses .410 shotgun shells, fired once and hit the man, police said. The burglar ran from the scene after getting peppered by the shot, the report said.

No description of the man was available Wednesday and police did not have a suspect.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2660376/posts

Mr. Chatwood likes his Judge. He didn't get burgled, he didn't get hurt and the bad guy has taken his business off his places to go list.

 

[Auto426]

Mr. Chatwood likes his Judge. He didn't get burgled, he didn't get hurt and the bad guy has taken his business off his places to go list.

The bad guy was also able to high tail it out of there after being shot and police never found a body, so it doesn't sound like the Judge really did that good of a job. If the bad guy were a bit more determined, he very likely could have kept on with the assault and things might have not been so nice for Mr. Chatwood.

 

[Sarge]

Actually, Dick Metcalf was the the first guy I know of touting the Judge as a defense gun; but Metcalf has written glowing reviews of Taurus guns for as long as I can remember reading his articles.