jackstrawIII
New member
Thanks for the info on the Sherman. Looks like a cool series of cartridges. Will keep in mind for future projects!
The Old Debate: Cartridge Expectations
- Thread starter jackstrawIII
- Start date
Sometimes ..... most times even .... and then there's the one that piles up, lays on the ground kicking for a solid half minute, and then gets his back legs under him .... and then his front, and runs a mile to the river and jumps in ..... comes out the other side and keeps running .... or that lays there, stone dead to the outside world, and gets up and tosses the first guy to touch him ..... or the one that seems totally unconcerned with multiple major caliber hits ..... the only signs of him being hit are the kugelschlag, the flying hair, and the blood running down his side .... I've killed a lot of deer .... seen as many killed by others .... they all die different .... some easy, some not so easy .... some refuse to admit they are dead for long after the point is uncontestable ....
jackstrawIII
New member
Had to look that one up. For anyone else wondering, it's the sound of the bullet impact on the animal.
Cool word, thanks JimBob. And thanks for the reminder that hunting is anything BUT predictable.
As Jon Sundra said - and I agree with him, "If you need a rifle that's bigger than 7mm, you need a rifle that's bigger than .30 caliber."
When I built my all around prairie-dogs-to-moose rifle a few years ago, I built it on a Remington 700 action chambered in .280AI.
If I need a bigger gun, I'll haul out the .358 Norma Mag or the .450 Marlin.
When I built my all around prairie-dogs-to-moose rifle a few years ago, I built it on a Remington 700 action chambered in .280AI.
If I need a bigger gun, I'll haul out the .358 Norma Mag or the .450 Marlin.
Just acquired my .280AI last week. I also felt this rifle would be my all-around/anything in North America rifle. I have zeroed it with the only thing on the shelf, and therefore the only brass I could get, which are the Hornady 162 ELD-x. Not my preference, but they'll get me started and leave me with 60 brass.
Japle, might I ask what load you use for the .280AI for prairie-dog sized game? And what twist rate you have?
Tallest:
Since I live in Florida, I don't have a prairie dog load worked up. So far, I've only used the AI on hogs and my load is the Speer 160 gr over 55.5 gr of IMR4350 in re-formed Remington .280 cases. Velocity is just under 2900fps.
My rifle has a 20" spiral-fluted Shaw barrel, so my load may be wildly unsuitable for your rifle. Use data from a reliable source (not me!) and work up carefully.
Since I live in Florida, I don't have a prairie dog load worked up. So far, I've only used the AI on hogs and my load is the Speer 160 gr over 55.5 gr of IMR4350 in re-formed Remington .280 cases. Velocity is just under 2900fps.
My rifle has a 20" spiral-fluted Shaw barrel, so my load may be wildly unsuitable for your rifle. Use data from a reliable source (not me!) and work up carefully.
I certainly will. I have 24" 1 in 8.5" twist Barrel that, thus far, has done really well with 162 grain Hornadys (all I've had a chance to shoot so far). I was wondering how something like 120 grain Ballistic Tip would do, and your post made me think maybe you had worked up something like that. Not a lot of folks go that way with 280AI, and my guess is most who do would be shooting a 1 in 9" or 1 in 10".
jackstrawIII
New member
I’ve loaded some 120 Grain Ballistic tips for my buddy’s 7mm08. We don’t have prairie dogs up here, but I do know that they work phenomenally well on whitetail deer.
When I lived in NV I used to load Hornady 120 gr as varmint bullets in my 7X57, worked spectacularly well on jackrabbits. Out of a 280, I imagine a 120 gr BT would be like a 22-250 when it hits something. I doubt you would get any penetration, just a fine mist.
Tell me about it. I have used a 7X57 for the past 45 years, and whenever I tell people I shoot a 7mm, they always think 7 mag.
stagpanther
New member
Funny--the more new better stuff comes out--the more I drift back to older rifles and cartridges as my "better." I have a 280 AI--and while it's performance is impressive, I find it a "touchy" cartridge. I personally am not that fond of the case design (I know--heresy) and prefer a Weatherby case over it.
Case in point, my 77 Hawkeye in 35 whelen.
It drives a .358 225 gameking at 2700 fps flat (for a hefty bullet) and far. A classic cartridge in a classic rifle.
Case in point, my 77 Hawkeye in 35 whelen.
It drives a .358 225 gameking at 2700 fps flat (for a hefty bullet) and far. A classic cartridge in a classic rifle. Attachments
bamaranger
New member
appropriate
I think most eastern whitetail hunters, for the most part, are largely overgunned. Meaning, that most of the classic deer rifle calibers, are more cartridge/power than one needs to cleanly take whitetails. I'm as guilty as the next guy, I own and hunt .270, '06, .308 rifles regularly, and will continue to do so. But I've come to the conclusion that you just don't need all that horsepower. More and more, I find myself hunting .44 mag , 7.62x39 and .243 carbines. And these milder cartridges are chambered in shorter, lighter rifles, my 3 favorites all have 20" tubes or less, and all are very easy to shoot well.
The way I hunt and the cover I hunt in, ranges are short, nearly all of my whitetail rifle kills are under 100 yds, many of them are half of that or less. A big whitetail in my area will still weigh less than 200 lbs live, most meat bucks will run in the 150 lb range. I just don't need a cartridge that is capable of taking animals the size of an elk, say 500-700 lbs. Sure I still hunt with full power cartridges, I bought an 18.5" Ruger .308 last month and expect I'll hunt it a lot this season. But what was really appealing was its tidy dimensions and light weight, not the horsepower it generates.
I think most eastern whitetail hunters, for the most part, are largely overgunned. Meaning, that most of the classic deer rifle calibers, are more cartridge/power than one needs to cleanly take whitetails. I'm as guilty as the next guy, I own and hunt .270, '06, .308 rifles regularly, and will continue to do so. But I've come to the conclusion that you just don't need all that horsepower. More and more, I find myself hunting .44 mag , 7.62x39 and .243 carbines. And these milder cartridges are chambered in shorter, lighter rifles, my 3 favorites all have 20" tubes or less, and all are very easy to shoot well.
The way I hunt and the cover I hunt in, ranges are short, nearly all of my whitetail rifle kills are under 100 yds, many of them are half of that or less. A big whitetail in my area will still weigh less than 200 lbs live, most meat bucks will run in the 150 lb range. I just don't need a cartridge that is capable of taking animals the size of an elk, say 500-700 lbs. Sure I still hunt with full power cartridges, I bought an 18.5" Ruger .308 last month and expect I'll hunt it a lot this season. But what was really appealing was its tidy dimensions and light weight, not the horsepower it generates.
jackstrawIII
New member
Bamaranger, I agree wholeheartedly, with 1 caveat: using traditional jacketed lead bullets. When using lead, the slower cartridges like the 7.62x39, 44 mag, 30/30 etc, are perfect.
However, I’ve been experimenting with all copper (lead-free) bullets since my kids starting eating so much venison. With the copper bullets, speed is vital and “traditional deer cartridges” like the 270 and 30-06 are much more effective than the slower cartridges previously mentioned.
bamaranger
New member
no doubt
No doubt about it, the traditional long action cartridges, or the short action .308/7mm with any bullet is more gun than the 3 I listed previously. I would also agree that the bigger cartridges are more versatile as well with their added range. If your toting the .44 mag carbine one morning, and the buck of a lifetime steps out on a R.O.W. at 250yds, you might as well just wave at him. The full power cartridges allow more options on quartering shots as well. Of course you can hunt larger game with the same rifle also.
I can pick and choose my whitetail hunting spots, which have a direct bearing on the nature of my shots and the rifles I hunt, not everybody has that option. Were I limited to one or two rifles and fewer locations, the modest carbines would not be my choice.
No doubt about it, the traditional long action cartridges, or the short action .308/7mm with any bullet is more gun than the 3 I listed previously. I would also agree that the bigger cartridges are more versatile as well with their added range. If your toting the .44 mag carbine one morning, and the buck of a lifetime steps out on a R.O.W. at 250yds, you might as well just wave at him. The full power cartridges allow more options on quartering shots as well. Of course you can hunt larger game with the same rifle also.
I can pick and choose my whitetail hunting spots, which have a direct bearing on the nature of my shots and the rifles I hunt, not everybody has that option. Were I limited to one or two rifles and fewer locations, the modest carbines would not be my choice.
stagpanther
New member
The majority of modest soft shooting hunting calibers are fine within their limitations and the limitations of where you're hunting. On the other hand, a medium bore that's good out to 300 to 400 yds is going to make a reasonable candidate for "good anywhere for most anything" versatile choice IMO for the traveling hunter. Can't prove that, though.