The 1911--this is ridiculous!

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Striker

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I confess :p

I own Glocks, Berettas, Walthers, Sigs, 1911s in various guises and makers, Smiths, Colts, Rugers, (even a Bersa, Rossi, and Taurus or two) autos and revolvers alike! .22, .32, .38/357, .44 Spl/Mag, 45s in all flavors (yes, in GAP too) and I like 'em all!!!

I don't want to choose, so what's wrong with me doctor? Am I really a downright, anti-social, deviant handgunophile!! :eek:

YEP!!!
 

Handy

Moderator
So, if Browning did have divine guidance, does that mean that his Latter Day Saint church is the one true faith? :D
 

FirstFreedom

Moderator
I guess the 1911 latter day saints would be the Caspian/Infinity/STI/Para double-stack lovers. ;) That brings up the question of "when is a 1911 no longer a 1911?" When it's double-stack? When the frame made from aluminum or plastic (wilson KZ45)? When it has a bushingless bull barrel? When it's made tight & accurate instead of loose like the original? I dunno the answer...

Agree it's ridiculous to talk about the 1911 when discussing the 24/7, in more than a passing way - the more relevant comparisons would be glock/XD/P99/Steyr/HK, etc., as well as its predecessor, the Millenium.
 

cje1980

New member
I disagree. The 1911 is by far and away the best "all around" fighting pistol ever made. This is the reason why almost all newer designs try to copy the 1911's best features.

Like Handy said, The only feature I see being copied is the removable magazine. Other than that I can't think of anyone actually copying the 1911 on new designs. Then again, if they are copying the 1911 it's not a new design. I don't understand what you are trying to say. I haven't seen a new design in my lifetime that copies the 1911.
 
If I remember my Bible studies, Moses and the rest of the Israelites "schlocked around the desert" for 40 years as punishment.

So, if that's the case, what did JMB do to piss God off so badly?


An even bigger question would be...

If the 1911 was divinely inspired, are we who don't believe that risking God's wrath, or are we merely agents of Satan?
 
Wel, you know, if there's divine inspiration here, maybe there's also divine intervention.

I'm getting a shovel and we're going to see if Mr. Browning is truly dead, or, like Merlin, just sleeping until such time that his country needs him again.
 

U.F.O.

New member
While you're so energetic with the shovel dig up Robert Oppenheimer, the father of the atom bomb, and see if God had a direct hand on that one also. :D (Just playing Mike Irwin)

U.F.O.
 
In my experience, training and competition....I see that the most experienced shooters and the best shooters.....carry 1911's! I still don't own one. I shoot a Browning Hi-Power. I have shot 1911's and found them smooth, very accurate, with very little kick.
Again, why is it that the best shooters and those that know a lot about guns....seem to religously carry the 1911. I don't think it is because they are outdated.
 

rkc

New member
I hate to bust anyones bubble but the common misconception that Browning arrived as the High Power as an improvement over the 1911 is simply not true. The 1911 was in production and doing well. The 1911 replaced the 1900 and 1905s and was indeed an improvement. And so forth. The High Power was a different pistol, designed by the same man who designed the 1911, and that is all. it was designed to satisfy European requirements for a military pistol. Period. A .45 service pistol was unthinkable in Europe. So, the 9mm was designed. And, curiously, not adopted until after the war. So, in the end, Browning designed the High Power to sell. And seel it did, probably better than any other military handgun ever will.
As for the commetns on the divine intervention in the 1911, well, it is well known Browning was very honest in his dealings and a reverent person. Teh 1911 has served so long and saved so many lives, well, there you go. and if you dont believe God is interested in everthing you do you may as well believe he is interested in nothing.

but to the point the misconception that the High Power is a development of the 1911 or an improvement not correct.

Comments?
 

Handy

Moderator
If the 1911 was "divinely inspired", how come the army added the most important feature of its cocked and locked system? :rolleyes:

The BHP has many differences from the 1911, most of which were to avoid infringing on the patents related to the Colt product. The trigger bar in the slide that is so common today got its start for this reason. ;)
 
RKC,

The High Power was a linear progression of Browning's locked-breech pistols. It includes many of the features that Browning had developed over a period of nearly 40 years.

If you don't think the High Power is a progressive step beyond the 1900/1905/1911 design, try looking at the intermediate designs that came between the 1911 and the High Power.

It's of no consequence that the "1911 was doing well and was still in production." That doesn't mean that Browning was going to stop prototyping.

Yes, the High Power has many differences designed to get around the patents that had been assigned to Colt, but it also has many similarities.


My point remains, though, if the 1911 was a thunderbolt from God that hit Browning like a skillet between the eyes, why did it come in the middle of a very fruitful career?

If it was TRULY a gift from God, why didn't Browning recognize that and leave well enough alone and stop designing handguns, instead of incurring the wrath of God by continuing to tinker?

You'll also note that I never claimed that the High Power was an IMPROVEMENT on the 1911. Only the next logical design step in the progression.

I could just imagine the hubbub were I to dare say the High Power is an improvement over the 1911. It would be like a riot in the monkey house with all the hooting, screeching, and poo flinging...
 

abelew

New member
the 1911 is a sweet shooting, natural pointing, and (when not screwed with) a smooth operating weapon. There are other good guns out there, but they all sacrafice some things to the 1911. Eithor trigger pull, barrel lenght, caliber, site radius, grip angle, frame material, barrel quality, etc.
 

gudel

New member
I was going to buy a gun magazine (reading type), until I saw the price, $10!

Why pay $10 if you gonna read how great a 1911 is, I can read about the same stuff online on the gun forums.
 

Boats

Moderator
I always get a kick out of, "But it's a hundred year old design!"

Glockophiles rave about only needing a punch to disassemble the entire weapon. CHECK.
The 1911 set the standard for grip angle. CHECK.
Even if it is modified to use the ejection port for lock-up, most pistols are still short recoil tilt barrel BROWNING systems of one flavor or another. CHECK.
The .45ACP is still considered the benchmark of combat pistol rounds, at least in the Americas. That little abbreviation does stand for AUTOMATIC COLT PISTOL, the 1911 being that pistol. CHECK.

Maybe the 1911 was a couple of centuries, not just one, ahead of its time?

"Primitive" though it may be, no other make has even come close to duplicating the trigger pull and reset one can get on even a pedestrian example of the type. That trigger system is what makes the 1911A1 the choice of our elite units, not hoary old tradition. A shooter not jerking a, for example, DAO polymer trigger, will likely not need more than the eight or nine shots the 1911A1 can provide with buttery control.

People mistake change for progress all of the time. I own several types of autopistols and if all but one had to go, I am hanging onto a 1911A1 of some stripe.

And of course, some of my 1911A1s do not have barrel bushings. Several lock up as well as anything else ever made. Most do have a firing pin safety of one form or another. I do dislike the plunger tube as a weakness in the design, but it has yet to fail me, and I don't know that the little wire springs and miscellany parts that make the slide releases and safeties work on other pistols are necessarily any better.

I do think you'll be reading about the 1911A1 for the rest of your life. Maybe you should stop purveying most gun rags?

A modernized 1911A1 is no less modern than any other metal framed pistol.
 

gudel

New member
the 1911 vs glock arguments get old, really old.

So I bought them all, and I decided what's best for me. You should do the same than rambling about it.
 

Boats

Moderator
So boats, might you be able to explain my above questioning then since you feel so favorably towards the 1911?

If you want to distill your two posts into a couple of clear questions or a concise statement as to what you'd have me address, I promise to give it crack by Sunday.
 

Blind Tree Frog

New member
I figured the first sentence of the first post was fairly consise
Since this thread has become a defend the 1911 type thread, would someone mind explaining the above comment about why the 1911 is the most effective combat pistol?

The rest of the 2 posts was merely discussing what was being said.
 
"That little abbreviation does stand for AUTOMATIC COLT PISTOL, the 1911 being that pistol. CHECK."

Actually, uncheck.

The term ACP was first used to designate a Browning developed cartridge in a semi-auto handgun as early as 1899.

IIRC, it as a .38, NOT a .45.

If all of my semi-autos but one had to go, my 1911 would probably be among the first to go.

I'd be hard pressed to get rid of the High Power or the P7, though.
 
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