Tell me about the new Colts

[WVsig]

I am not disparaging Dan Wesson in anyway. I bought my CBOB LNIB for $700 at a time when most people thought that Dan Wesson was an out of business revolver company. It was my everyday carry for years. It was recently replaced by this....

 

[Scorch]

OK, I have enjoyed the jovial banter, and the lively exchange. Since no one has had anything negative to say, I will consider that to be a positive, even though I understand that the absence of negative feedback does not equal positive feedback. And thank you AustinTX for the info on the trigger, I feel that may be a dealbreaker, but maybe not. If so, there are lots of older Series 70 Combat Commanders out there. Once again, thanks to all for the input.

 

[WVsig]

And thank you AustinTX for the info on the trigger, I feel that may be a dealbreaker, but maybe not. If so, there are lots of older Series 70 Combat Commanders out there. Once again, thanks to all for the input.

Depending on the vintage of the Combat Commander you might be better off with a NIB gun.

The entire XSE line is a Series 80. The Series 80 has unjustifiably received a bad rap from some 1911 shooters. The trigger pull can be quiet good, and I doubt that anyone other than the most ardent bullseye shooter would be able to tell the difference. These days almost every handgun, including target models, has some type of firing pin block. Most work very similar to the Colt Series 80.

I agree with this statement. I have owned 70 series and 80 series guns. IMHO if you did a blind test with 10 guns. 5 80 series and 5 70 series guns all stock from Colt, using them because they are one of the few which still manufacture both, 90% of the shooters would not be able to tell which trigger type they were pulling.

I have felt good 80 series triggers and bad ones. It really is more about the particular gun than 70 vs 80.

 

[mavracer]

yes don't let the '80 series FPB scare you off. They can be made to have very good triggers, at most it only adds a couple ounces to the trigger pull.
I have an XSE LW commander in 38 super, I love it the only changes have been a proper beavertail and night sights. it's 100% reliable and accurate.

I find it a bit hypocritical that somebody professing the DW brand would use the name recognition card when Bob Serva basicly bought the right to the Dan Wesson name to start building 1911s.

 

[Tom Servo]

yes don't let the '80 series FPB scare you off. They can be made to have very good triggers, at most it only adds a couple ounces to the trigger pull.

Funny story: I've got a Colt Series 70 Gold Cup that has the Series 80 safety ("Series 70" does not denote a type of safety, but a different barrel/bushing system). We had a guy at the range going on and on about how you couldn't get a good trigger pull on a Series 80. Wasn't going to happen. He said he could tell by feel.

I brought my Gold Cup in, handed it to him, and said, "how about that?" He dry-fired it and exclaimed "see? That's what I mean! Way better than the new stuff!" He didn't know the difference.

I've heard of folks pulling the Series 80 FPS out, but they've had problems with spent powder and gunk getting in the empty nooks and crannies that leaves. Ironically, they'll blame those failures on the Series 80 stuff

Honestly, I can take or leave the Series 80 safety, but I won't let it sway my decision one way or another. Nobody I've shot with, and none of the gunsmiths, I've known in ~25 years of shooting has ever seen a problem attributable to it.

(FWIW, the P38 uses the same system, and how many complaints do we hear about that?)

 

[WVsig]

Ok lets approach it a different way. The OP is looking for at a NIB Colt 1911 XSE Commader pistol which we all agree will be a Series 80 pistol with a firing pin block and will run about $900.

I think that for the money it is hard to beat that Colt in terms of overall, value, quality, fit, finish, reliabilty, accuracy and warranty... If you think that is there is a better sub $1000 NIB 1911, I even gave you some wiggle room, on the market name it.

I can guarantee that every name on the list has has QC issues at one time or another. I can gurantee that every name on the list has multiple end users on this forum that can report hands on experience with a poorly made pistol in this price range.

If there is a better sub $1,000 1911 Commander please name it.

 

[Dobe]

Springfield and the used market, i.e. Kimber pre Series IIs. I wouldn't run from the Colt. Again, my contention is not to state the Colt is a bad manufacturer, but that there are others a good or even better.

Springfield also has a great service and warranty reputation.

 

[WVsig]

Springfield and the used market, i.e. Kimber pre Series IIs. I wouldn't run from the Colt. Again, my contention is not to state the Colt is a bad manufacturer, but that there are others a good or even better.

Springfield also has a great service and warranty reputation.

Again what makes the SA better or as good. Are you stating that IYHO SA makes a "better" 1911 than Colt? It certainly does not hold its resale value as well. They are not made here in the US, not that it matters to me personally.

I agree that they have a good rep but they are not as true to the orginal spec. For many people that does not matter but in my experience something as simple as the grip radius is off on the SA. Most of the time it is not an issue but I have seen issues with grip and beavertail fitting.

They have more MIM parts than the Colt not that MIM in an of itself is horrible. I am interested on the criteria by which you have arrived at this conclusion.

Comparing used guns to a NIB gun is an apples to oranges comparision. IMHO it does not apply.

 

[Dobe]

I do not disagree that Colt has had some rough times. I, however, disagree with the idea that custom gun smithing was based on making the 1911 reliable. It was based on taking a combat pistol and turning it into a bulleye pistol. It had to do with pushing the design to its limits so you could get 1.5" groups at 50 yards. It was about custom features made to fit an individuals needs. The 1911 as orginally designed was not intended to do these things. People took the base Colt and modified if for good or for bad depending on your opinion.

I didn't mention bulleye , where alibis are acceptable. I stated industries springing up based upon reliability packages, adding gunsmithing i.e. sights, beaver tails, etc also.

Exactly which is the point I continue to try to make. If NIB Colts were not quality guns which meet the expectations of the vast majority of those who purchase them wouldn't your excelerated time line have destroyed their 100 year old rep in a matter of years if not months?
Today 02:53 PM

Indeed, look what Kimber did to the entire industry when they produced a workable 1911 (pre Series II), and maintained their quality. It didn't take long to snatch a market share from Colt. Look what happened to Kimber even before the introduction of the Series II with MIM QC, weak extractors, poorly made magazines, and a backed up service department. They lost too.

Colt will survive for sure. The introduction of CNC machinery and their name brand will ensure that. That is as long as they keep an eye on the market and their own QC.

By the way OP, get the Colt, but compare before you do, especially the used market. There are some great deals out there.

Comparing used guns to a NIB gun is an apples to oranges comparision. IMHO it does not apply.

Perhaps, but you certainly do it often when the word Sig comes up.

 

[WVsig]

Indeed, look what Kimber did to the entire industry when they produced a workable 1911 (pre Series II), and maintained their quality. It didn't take long to snatch a market share from Colt. Look what happened to Kimber even before the introduction of the Series II with MIM QC, weak extractors, poorly made magazines, and a backed up service department. They lost too.

I agree early Kimber guns revolutionized the 1911 market by making that which was once "custom only" an assebmly line product. IMHO beavertails and different sights were not done to correct defects introduced by Colt they were a matter of preferences. I still shoot my stock 70 series Repo with its tiny sights and no beavertail just fine. LOL

Kimbers rep suffers even today because of these choices but they still sell more 1911s than anyone else. I laugh at the idea that Colt gets a pass and others don't. Kimber sells because they have a great dealer program and they are profitable.

Perhaps, but you certainly do it often when the word Sig comes up.

I certainly do because Cohen is running the Kimber playbook at Sig. I mention older used Sigs because for me there is a clear line in the sand between the older W. German or even current German guns and what Exeter produces.

With Colt is much harder to do that. IMHO there was period in the 80's where their older equipment was out of spec and produced a lot of bad pistols. Other than that their QC has been pretty consistent. IMHO.

Again what criteria makes the SA or a pre Series II Kimber better than the Colt?

 

[Dobe]

Again what criteria makes the SA or a pre Series II Kimber better than the Colt?

The one thing Colt lacks...consistency, and according to W.E. Deming, consistency pretty much defines quality. Consistency, or lack thereof is what hurt Kimber, and Sig too; hard to disagree with that.

 

[CANIS]

I have liked all of my Colts based on my experience. I have not owned or inspected everything Colt has produced so my sample size is probably not statistically significant.

HOWEVER, in my limited experiece (15 guns spanning from 1980's through today) I have liked every Colt I have ever owned and regret every one that I have ever traded or sold and wished I had them back.

I recently picked up a blued Mustang and a Stainless Combat Commnader XSE
(04012XSE).
Both a little older, but both very nice. The standard stainless CC I bought a year ago was beautiful and functioned great as well as the Defender I bought last year.

So, I heartily recommend a Colt as a terrific value. Also, I have never sold a Colt gun for less than what I paid for it. I have actually realized a little profit on them from time to time. The only other firearms I can say that about are some of the old S&W revolvers I have owned through the years. Always sold them at break even or a profit. Hmmmm, what do they have in common? Firearms royalty in the good 'ol USA. Sure, they might have lived on past accomplishments from time to time, but we ALL do that. Every company is built on the great things they did in the past and grows on the great things they are capable of in the present and future. Call me a wild-eyed optimist, but I believe that Colt is still capable of greatness now and in the future.

The intangibles? Pride of ownership. A tie, alebeit a small one, to our nation's history of firearms innovation and the right to defend ourselves.

 

[KyJim]

I think that for the money it is hard to beat that Colt in terms of overall, value, quality, fit, finish, reliabilty, accuracy and warranty... If you think that is there is a better sub $1000 NIB 1911, I even gave you some wiggle room, on the market name it.

That's my point, too. The STI Trojan succeeds on some of these points with a street price of just under $1,000 but it uses a cast frame and lots of (quality) MIM. STI's forged frame pistol (the Lawman) adds $300 to the cost. IMO, there's nothing wrong with a good cast frame and you can debate the MIM stuff. The fact remains, though, nobody is doing what Colt is doing at their price point.

 

[WVsig]

The one thing Colt lacks...consistency, and according to W.E. Deming, consistency pretty much defines quality.

Over the last 100 years who has a better track record of consistency building production 1911s than Colt?

Kimber? SA? Norinco? S&W? STI? Ruger? Remington? Armscor?

 

[Dobe]

That's almost funny. You got me....ahhhhh the only one who has been making 1911s for that period of time?

 

[Dobe]

That's my point, too. The STI Trojan succeeds on some of these points with a street price of just under $1,000 but it uses a cast frame and lots of (quality) MIM. STI's forged frame pistol (the Lawman) adds $300 to the cost. IMO, there's nothing wrong with a good cast frame and you can debate the MIM stuff. The fact remains, though, nobody is doing what Colt is doing at their price point.

If I'm looking for a shooter, I prefer what works. There is nothing wrong with quality MIM nor cast frames. If I prefer historic and collector value, then things differ. One of the problems I find with 1911s, is that nostalgia gets in the way. The good thing is that there are enough manufacturers and models from which to choose, that anyone can get what they want. If you can't find it, you can have it made.

 

[Mike Irwin]

OK.

I've cleaned this thread up.

If you notice that one or more of your posts is missing.... tough.

It was either off topic, argumentative, or both. Live with it.

I'm going to reopen this thread, and I would appreciate everyone making an effort to stay on topic by answering the OPs question and not flying off in a million different directions.

 

[BigJimP]

OP asked for experience not opinions ...but the only experience I have with the new colt 1911's is in rental cases at the range - and I think they're ok.

In terms of opinions, I have a lot of 1911's - but no colts - yet, I think its pretty widely held - that the newer offerings in 1911's from Colt have been much better than what they were producing 20 yrs ago or so ....

...and its apparent to me, that their investment in machining, is probably the reason for the improvement - whether its inhouse or from outside vendors, I don't know / but I'm not sure it matters either.

..if you're looking for a 1911 on a budget ..then I think looking at a Colt is a good idea / and has been for a couple of years. Personally - I'd try and find 5 or 6 of them in inventory locally - and test the triggers on all of them - and pick the one with the trigger I like the best.

 

[KyJim]

If I'm looking for a shooter, I prefer what works. There is nothing wrong with quality MIM nor cast frames. If I prefer historic and collector value, then things differ. One of the problems I find with 1911s, is that nostalgia gets in the way. The good thing is that there are enough manufacturers and models from which to choose, that anyone can get what they want. If you can't find it, you can have it made.

And that's fine. Your choice. I'm only pointing out that Colt is the only one using the materials they do at their price point.

 

[HisSoldier]

I'm only pointing out that Colt is the only one using the materials they do at their price point.

At what price do they give the new owner a steel MSH? I honestly don't know. I was out of guns for about ten years, went to a guns show and bought a nice looking stainless Colt. But I didn't look it over good enough, when I got it home I was shocked as heck to find that the MSH was some kind of plastic they colored to look like stainless. Within a few days it had a stainless housing, but that was an eye opener for me about Colt.