Tell me about 38 Super

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Sevens

New member
Gread post, Rod! :cool:

Who has anything to add about .38 Super Comp?
I know almost nothing about it... but I *think* it's just some guys that wanted a .38 Super that was a little easier to deal with... so they shaved the semi-rim off it and it's basically now a rimless .38 Super. Does that sound right?
 
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Aguila Blanca

Staff
OldMarksman said:
Does anyone have any information on that?
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I have one, but I shoot at an indoor range, using both plugs and muffs. In a booth between two hard walls, everything sounds loud.

My guess would be it's about equal to .40 S&W in decibel level ... but that's a guess.
 
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tipoc

New member
Who has anything to add about .38 Super Comp?
I know almost nothing about it... but I *think* it's just some guys that wanted a .38 Super that was a little easier to deal with... so they shaved the semi-rim off it and it's basically now a rimless .38 Super. Does that sound right?
Click to expand...

That's about right. While the Super can feed well in some doublestack guns in others it can be questionable. Or at least several fellas figured it would run better as a "rimless" cartridge. The first of these guys was Todd Jarrett who came up with the 38TJ. Other versions are the 38 Supercomp, 38 Super Lapua, and others. There was a good bit of experimenting with the round in the 80s and 90s. This resulted finally in the 9x23 Winchester which showed up in 1996 or so. This latter has a stronger case design and can stand higher pressures.

But about the time these were up and began running the rules for making major in IPSC changed. The threshold went from 175 to 165. So the benefits of the added strength of the new designs in competition was undercut.

tipoc
 
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pbcaster45

New member
My Kimber .38 Super has had about 13,000 fired through it and except for the extractor getting out tune (corrected with a Weigand Tool) it's given me no problems. Pretty powerful round when loaded correctly.

Keep in mind, Kimbers have ramped barrels and fully supported chambers. Some of these loads are too hot for Colts and others pistols.

Cor-Bon 115 gr. JHP +P
Velocity: 1430 fps

A similar handload.

Bullet: Hornady 115 gr. XTP-HP
Powder: Alliant Power Pistol 7.9 grs.
Primer: Magtech 1 1/2
Case: Remington
LOAL: 1.245
Velocity: 1394 fp
Recoil Spring: 14 lbs. (with Shok-Buff)

For practice.

Bullet: Hornady 125 gr. HAP (35572B)
Powder: VihtaVuori N320 4.5 grs.
Primer: Federal 100
Case: PMC
LOAL: 1.230
Average Velocity: 1056 fps
ES: 28.31
SD: 8.12
Recoil Spring: 10 lbs (with Shok-Buff)

Bullet: Hornady 125 gr. HAP (35572B)
Powder: IMR SR-4756 7.8 grs.
Primer: Winchester Small Rifle
Case: PMC
LOAL: 1.250
Average Velocity: 1258.97 fps
ES: 41.85
SD: 13.85
Recoil Spring: 13 lbs (with Shok-Buff)

Kimber38Super.jpg
 
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lmccrock

New member
Who has anything to add about .38 Super Comp?
I know almost nothing about it... but I *think* it's just some guys that wanted a .38 Super that was a little easier to deal with... so they shaved the semi-rim off it and it's basically now a rimless .38 Super. Does that sound right?
Click to expand...
Yes, and 38TJ and a SAAMI round, 9x23 Winchester. These exist to make power factor in IPSC and USPSA, which have a 9mm minimum.
 
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sandbag

New member
Great Round

I have an RIA 1911 in 38 Super-it's a nice flat shooting and powerful round with relatively low recoil for the amount of ft lbs and velocity.
The ammo is not too expensive,particularly Armscor ,which Graf&Sons has routinely been selling for about $18/box with free shipping-gotta find it in stock though.
The 38 Super suffered from accuracy issues until the Colt Series 80 introduced headspacing on the mouth of the cartridge instead of the base.Other makers followed suit and older pistols can be retrofitted with Barsto barrels to get the same result.
Contrary to popular belief,there are some excellent defensive rounds out there for the 38 Super-Corbon,Buffalo Bore,Georgia Arms,and Double Tap to name a few.
The round survived largely because of the Mexican market insofar as Mexico wouldn't allow civilians to own 45ACP firearms as they were considered military/police equipment,but 1911's were legal in 38 Super.Mexicans like 1911's so there was a good demand.
More recently competitive shooters have adopted the 38 super because of the lower recoil and improved accuracy.
 
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MR_X

New member
Just got me a EAA Witness in 38 Super. Love the round. It is expensive round but I will be reloading for it too. I only shot 20 rounds of Corbon 115 gr +P and 124gr +P through it and the recoil was nice. Picked the round over the 40 for a less snappy recoil so my wife could use in HD and my oldest son can use it for competition. The other thing about it is how flexible it can be when reloading it. I can load it to 38 Auto specs for my kids for less than 9mm recoil or do some hot loads to make mayor PF in competition. The Witness can carry 17 rounds of it.
 
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darkgael

New member
.38 Super

IIRC, a 1911 .38 Super was one of the pistols used by Bill Blankenship when he set his National Record for the Conventional Pistol 2700. That record stood for a long time.
Pete
 
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TomADC

New member
I'd buy the RAI in 38 Super then buy the parts to convert to 9MM. I had a Colt 1911 in 38 Super 30 years ago, I reloaded using Blue Dot powder.
 
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kcub

New member
Super ammo was loaded in nickel cases to keep them separate from the weaker 38 ACP. When the notion of +P marketing was developed the boxes were labeled +P.
Click to expand...

So is all .38 Super +P? Most of the ammo you see available is +P.
 
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tipoc

New member
So is all .38 Super +P? Most of the ammo you see available is +P.
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Only in relation to the old 38acp and even then not all of it. The term "+P" really has no meaning when applied to the 38 Super.

This is kinda hard to grok but there is an old round called 38acp which was developed by Browning in the early 1900s. It was a good round which did somewheres between 1100-1200 fps with a 130 gr. bullet, more powerful than the 9mm. In 1928 or so Colt chambered that round in the 1911 and named the gun the Colt Super 38. It was the same case as the older 38acp but loaded up to about 1300 fps with a 130 gr. bullet. Gradually the round came to be called the 38 Super. Later it was marked +P so no one would place it in the older guns.

If you go here...http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=15427

and click on the images you can compare the velocity and energy figures to see the difference. You can also see that some commercial ammo is loaded to the same range as the older 38 acp while some is in excess of the 1300 fps mark from the same length barrels. So +P has no particular use when applied to the Super. SAMMI does not recognize it for the Super.

tipoc
 
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Sevens

New member
That's fantastic reading. I love the passion for digging in to history and laying it all out for folks to take it in. Great link, great article.
 
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