Tell me about 38 Super
- Thread starter KMAX
- Start date
Peter M. Eick
New member
The Super is a fun accurate round that you can reload to low end 357 magnum velocities. It is closer to the 38/44 in terms of power but beyond a 38 Special. I load mine to 130@1300 routinely. It is more normal plinking load that I can get tehre with no real pressure issues or problems.
I tend to worry about 9mm+P+ rounds and you are pushing up in the edge where you have less room fro slop. With the 38 Super you have more case volume for powder so you don't have to beat on the round like the 9mm+P+ to get the same velocities.
As a reloader bullets and powders are plentiful but my personal favorite is 4756 for good loads. Accurate, reliable and just fun to shoot.
This is the round 250 to 300 out of my 38 Super 1.5" Les Baer at 15 yrds offhand. For a new gun, and obviously new to me, I am pretty pleased with how it did.
I tend to worry about 9mm+P+ rounds and you are pushing up in the edge where you have less room fro slop. With the 38 Super you have more case volume for powder so you don't have to beat on the round like the 9mm+P+ to get the same velocities.
As a reloader bullets and powders are plentiful but my personal favorite is 4756 for good loads. Accurate, reliable and just fun to shoot.
This is the round 250 to 300 out of my 38 Super 1.5" Les Baer at 15 yrds offhand. For a new gun, and obviously new to me, I am pretty pleased with how it did.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Current issue of SWAT has an article about the round.
Tipsy Mcstagger
New member
I love the cartridge. I have had 2 Eaa witness in 38 super and both were very accurate and high capacity. In my experience, they had quite a bit of muzzle flash (in the evening compared with other auto pistols) but weren't nearly as loud as a .357. I now have a kimber commander 4.25" no barrel bushing/fully supported feed ramp and my 125 gr reloads shoot 1330-50 fps with 7.5 gr power pistol, no flattened primers or case bulging. It is my carry gun, though not with reloads. 124 grain XTPs from underwood ammo clocked in at 1320-1330 fps. I have killed some hogs up close and a coyote with the cartridge. I had one of the witnesses rebarreled/fitted to 9mm and though the 38 super had more muzzle flip, it was not the slightest bit jarring or uncomfortable, and the noise on the steel targets is much louder than with 9mm 115gr ball ammo.
357 is my favorite cartridge but due to decibels, I carry a 38 super when hunting in south Texas and as my ccw and trust it with my life. As far as ammo goes, ad in my experience, there aren't many choices but in power from lowest to highest it has been pmc/Fiocchi/magtech/aguila/underwood ammo. Sorry for the essay, it started out as 2 sentences....
357 is my favorite cartridge but due to decibels, I carry a 38 super when hunting in south Texas and as my ccw and trust it with my life. As far as ammo goes, ad in my experience, there aren't many choices but in power from lowest to highest it has been pmc/Fiocchi/magtech/aguila/underwood ammo. Sorry for the essay, it started out as 2 sentences....
Hunter Customs
New member
I built a client a custom commander in 38 super comp.
I enjoyed shooting that gun so much during test firing I hated to call the gentleman to tell him his gun was ready to be picked up.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
I enjoyed shooting that gun so much during test firing I hated to call the gentleman to tell him his gun was ready to be picked up.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
I really like the 38 super cartridge, but I ended up getting rid of mine for 2reasons 1) factory ammunition was increasingly difficult to obtain and expensive. 2) I dumped the 1911 platform, but truth be told, my 38 super 1911 was the only 1911 I ever owned that I considered truly reliable.
I still have reloading dies and brass for it, I would still be interested in another one if I ever saw one that isn't a 1911.
I still have reloading dies and brass for it, I would still be interested in another one if I ever saw one that isn't a 1911.
The specs overlap, so SOME .38 ACP/.38 Super might chamber in SOME .38 Special/.357 Magnum revolvers, but it is not a given. Browning actually began his .38 auto experiments with the .38 S&W, a larger diameter case than the later .38 Special, and the diameter is basically the same. An area of caution is that the .38 ACP/.38 Super will chamber and fire in some old revolvers made for the .38 S&W, creating a very dangerous situation.
Jim
Jim
Not to "pile on" but to further the thought...
I come here because I like these people and this format. While one may argue "eh, anybody can say anything..." we also have some great minds here that do a fine job at fact-checknig, if you will.
What is the thought process behind this semi-rimmed cartridge, or any semi-rimmed cartridige?
The rimmed ones are fantastic in revolvers,
the rimless ones work wonderfully in semi-auto pistols...
Did John Browning just decide to be funny one day and design one that wasn't perfect for either?!
The semi-rimmed design seems like the worst of both worlds and the best of niether.
Because that's the way they make them these days?
back in the dark ages (1978) the specs for the Colt Govt model & Commander said 7rnds .45ACP, 9 rnds .38 Super, 9 rnds 9mm Luger.
The original (and GI) .45acp mags were 7 round capacity. Today, its very common to see commercial 8 round mags the same size.
My guess would be they used the same tricks to get 10 9mm rounds in the mag, and either couldn't get 10 .38 Super rounds to work right, or possibly, didn't bother to try.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I don't have 380 ACP handy, but I don't think it is semi-rimmed.
I think the semi-rimmed were developed to deal with the feed problems of rimmed cartridges while still providing a surface for the round to index ("headspace") off of when chambered. Over time indexing off the case mouth proved to be effective and I doubt you will find any new semi-rimmed cartridges were introduced after the 9mm proved itself. Think how some here react to simple design developments, now in that context imagine a generation of rimmed revolver shooters hearing they were going to be given bullets with no rim in a semi-auto.
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/08/sps...w-available-from-eagle-imports/#axzz2zS7wS7Qe
If I ever buy a centerfire 1911, and it seems to be a required purchase according to every thread on the subject, I would likely buy a 38 super.
I think the semi-rimmed were developed to deal with the feed problems of rimmed cartridges while still providing a surface for the round to index ("headspace") off of when chambered. Over time indexing off the case mouth proved to be effective and I doubt you will find any new semi-rimmed cartridges were introduced after the 9mm proved itself. Think how some here react to simple design developments, now in that context imagine a generation of rimmed revolver shooters hearing they were going to be given bullets with no rim in a semi-auto.
http://www.ammoland.com/2013/08/sps...w-available-from-eagle-imports/#axzz2zS7wS7Qe
If I ever buy a centerfire 1911, and it seems to be a required purchase according to every thread on the subject, I would likely buy a 38 super.
Hi, Sevens and guys,
After doing a fair amount of research and some connecting of dots, the .38 and .32 ACP story seems to go like this. Browning was a free-lance designer who sold his ideas to any gun company that would buy the patents or pay him royalties. But he worked and experimented mostly on his own, at least in the early days. That meant he had no source of made to order cartridges. So when he began working on his auto pistols, he took the most common revolver cartridges of the day, the .38 S&W and the .32 S&W and tried using them in his pistols. (His early patents clearly show rimmed revolver cartridges.)
But it was soon clear that rimmed rounds would not work well through a magazine. So he kept experimenting, making the rims smaller and smaller. Finally he got cartridges that worked and fed fairly well but, even though the rims were smaller, they were still there, and the cartridge case is supported (or "headspaced" if you prefer) on the rim. Browning called the cases "rimless", but we use the term "semi-rimmed." Browning used that idea in his .38 ACP, the .32 ACP, the .25 ACP, and the 9mm Browning, aka the 9mm Browning Long. The .38 Super is a heavily loaded .38 ACP. In all those guns the chambering has to allow for the rim.
Sometime around 1904, he either had a better idea or, more likely, became aware of the 9mm Luger, which is supported on the case mouth. The two cartridges he designed subsequently, the .380 ACP (aka 9mm Browning Short) and the .45 ACP, are straight rimless cases and are supported on the case mouth.
Jim
After doing a fair amount of research and some connecting of dots, the .38 and .32 ACP story seems to go like this. Browning was a free-lance designer who sold his ideas to any gun company that would buy the patents or pay him royalties. But he worked and experimented mostly on his own, at least in the early days. That meant he had no source of made to order cartridges. So when he began working on his auto pistols, he took the most common revolver cartridges of the day, the .38 S&W and the .32 S&W and tried using them in his pistols. (His early patents clearly show rimmed revolver cartridges.)
But it was soon clear that rimmed rounds would not work well through a magazine. So he kept experimenting, making the rims smaller and smaller. Finally he got cartridges that worked and fed fairly well but, even though the rims were smaller, they were still there, and the cartridge case is supported (or "headspaced" if you prefer) on the rim. Browning called the cases "rimless", but we use the term "semi-rimmed." Browning used that idea in his .38 ACP, the .32 ACP, the .25 ACP, and the 9mm Browning, aka the 9mm Browning Long. The .38 Super is a heavily loaded .38 ACP. In all those guns the chambering has to allow for the rim.
Sometime around 1904, he either had a better idea or, more likely, became aware of the 9mm Luger, which is supported on the case mouth. The two cartridges he designed subsequently, the .380 ACP (aka 9mm Browning Short) and the .45 ACP, are straight rimless cases and are supported on the case mouth.
Jim
A central source for information on the 38 Super, commercial ammo, history, handloads, comparison with other calibers, etc. can be found here...
http://www.38super.net/
38 Super commercial ammo can be found and ordered easily on the web and at gunshows. Your local gun shop can order some for you if you prepay. It is comparable in price with other ammo. Here is one source, there are others...
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=15427
It is a versatile round across a variety of bullet weights. You can get a 115 gr. bullet going in excess of 1400 fps, a 124 gr. going over 1300 fps, a 147 gr. going over 1200 fps and a 158 gr. over 1100 fps. With different bullets and suitable for a variety of tasks.
It's stuck around for a long time because it's a good round.
tipoc
http://www.38super.net/
38 Super commercial ammo can be found and ordered easily on the web and at gunshows. Your local gun shop can order some for you if you prepay. It is comparable in price with other ammo. Here is one source, there are others...
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=15427
It is a versatile round across a variety of bullet weights. You can get a 115 gr. bullet going in excess of 1400 fps, a 124 gr. going over 1300 fps, a 147 gr. going over 1200 fps and a 158 gr. over 1100 fps. With different bullets and suitable for a variety of tasks.
It's stuck around for a long time because it's a good round.
tipoc
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Hunter0924
New member
I have a couple of Colts in Super .38 and it is externally the same as the .38 Auto.
It does operate at a higher pressure. As was said the early pistols headspaced off the extractor and accuracy suffered a bit.
The newer Government Models chambered in Super .38 do well with the round and I am a fan of it.
It does operate at a higher pressure. As was said the early pistols headspaced off the extractor and accuracy suffered a bit.
The newer Government Models chambered in Super .38 do well with the round and I am a fan of it.
I've had an interest in .38 Supers since the early 60's when my college rifle team coach let me shoot his 1911 Colt on our 100 yd practice range. He was a Distinguished Rifle and Pistol badge holder and could really shoot that old Colt. He could, for example, routinely pop toy store balloons thumb-tacked to the 120 yd rifle range berm. He was a shade tree gunsmith and had smoothed up the trigger and done some small amount of tightening on the rails and link, but essentially, the gun was stock.
Flash forward 25 years and I had found a satin nickle Colt Combat Commander in .45 ACP, and later also found a .38 Super Colt Slide and barrel assembly in Gun List for less than $150. I had it in hand and tried the combination on the .45 Commander. After changing out the ejector, I had a functioning, nearly 100%, short bbl'd Colt in .38 Super. Accuracy was not as good as the superb .45 barrel but still acceptable at sub-3" for 25 yd groups.
When I passed that venerable Colt on to son #2, I kept the .38 Super upper and tried it on a new Ruger SR1911 CMD....and voila, it fit and functioned perfectly with no add'l parts needed. Accuracy is great (see attch. pic of a 25 yd target) and I do like the two-tone look of the gun. Reloads tweaked to this gun's desires give me very satisfying performance. 2" gps. or a little less at 25 are no problem so long as the sun's at my back and I have a good "eyes" day.
It'd be great carry piece if it were lighter but at almost 43 oz fully loaded, it's a bit much.
Best Regards, Rod
Flash forward 25 years and I had found a satin nickle Colt Combat Commander in .45 ACP, and later also found a .38 Super Colt Slide and barrel assembly in Gun List for less than $150. I had it in hand and tried the combination on the .45 Commander. After changing out the ejector, I had a functioning, nearly 100%, short bbl'd Colt in .38 Super. Accuracy was not as good as the superb .45 barrel but still acceptable at sub-3" for 25 yd groups.
When I passed that venerable Colt on to son #2, I kept the .38 Super upper and tried it on a new Ruger SR1911 CMD....and voila, it fit and functioned perfectly with no add'l parts needed. Accuracy is great (see attch. pic of a 25 yd target) and I do like the two-tone look of the gun. Reloads tweaked to this gun's desires give me very satisfying performance. 2" gps. or a little less at 25 are no problem so long as the sun's at my back and I have a good "eyes" day.
It'd be great carry piece if it were lighter but at almost 43 oz fully loaded, it's a bit much.
Best Regards, Rod
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