Taser in Action.... this is GREAT

WaltherP22ASSN

New member
I agree

Getting those worthless drunks off the road should be priority one. I am an EMT and I see these situations all the time. When a person drinks too much alcohol the reasoning part of the brain is shut off by the ethanol thus the person could become violent and all sorts of problems could occur. I am displeased with the actions of some police officers but I think this guy did the right thing. He was alone looks like on a back country highway, so taking control of the situation is for his safety.
 

Conservadude

New member
Lightweights

For you guys making excuses for the drunk, saying that he might have been saying 'no' to the wrong thing like 'no more taser', or thinking he was shot with the taser too soon or too many times, I say bull butter! With due respect to Roy D Mercer of course. That perp decided to ignore commands and leave the scene with every chance he got. Every chance, no exceptions. Whenever he recovered enough to move, he got up to continue his beligerent "no way will I cooperate!" attitude. Nope, the taser wasn't wrong, wasn't too soon, and neither were there too many shots fired. He's lucky he didn't get an accidental boot in the face and a big Maglite over the noggin after the first taser shot or two.

I have other questions though. ...Where was LEO#2? Why was this officer doing a one-handed waltz with the guy instead of taking better control of the situation right from the start? LEO#1 (assuming there was a #2) had no backbone and sure as hell didn't know anything about physically apprehending a perp. And he wasn't a good dancer either. He should be embarrassed, thank God the guy was in a stupor, and go back to training for a long time. Whoever said it looked like a gun grab or knife assault begging to happen was right on. The LEO was lucky that he had a drunk on his hands, not some meth phreak or crack head.

Brian
 
I got the impression after the second shock the guy was simply saying 'no' to his tazering, not trying to resist

He was resisting from start to finish. Not complying with the officer's demands. Once he was placed under arrest, he has to comply.

The officer was right on all the way. Showed amazing restraint.
 

Lord_Nikon

New member
PinnedAndRecessed said:
He was resisting from start to finish. Not complying with the officer's demands. Once he was placed under arrest, he has to comply.

Or he was saying "No!' to the "You'll get it again!" while doing his best to comply with the officer's confusing demands. "Turn around!" is the kind of thing that you do when you're standing, as opposed to "Roll over!"
 

DT Guy

New member
Sometimes I find it surprising that people who wouldn't dream of second-guessing a surgeon, a pilot or an automobile mechanic can watch a police in-car video and proffer opinions about it. Many do it without understanding such basic concepts as 'passive resistance' and the use of force continuum itself.

What is there about law enforcement that makes people think that they can Monday morning QB an incident from an in-car camera? Why do people suggest boxing techniques as a replacment for a less than lethal restraint device?

I had a teacher once who responded to a kid's contention that, 'everybody has a right to an opinion' by flatly contradicting him. He said that you EARNED your right to an opinion by doing the work necessary to be informed about the subject. If you weren't a nuclear scientist, you didn't have a 'right' to an opinion on how to construct a containment dome; if you didn't go to medical school, you didn't have a 'right' to call an MD wrong and prescribe an herbal cure for yourself.

If you want to have an informed opinion on what an LEO goes through, go wrestle some drunks on a backroad somewhere. See how many people DON'T care that you have a badge and a gun, and try to take a pop at you. Best of all, get called out of roll call to explain how you tried to arrest that drunk without killing him or letting him kill you, and he got scuffed up in the process...or go home and explain to your kids that dad was hurt at work by another grown man who thought it would be fun to fight with the police.

How about recognizing that there is some expertise here, some training, some experience, that many don't have-and that those things are necessary to make an intelligent judgment about how someone WITH those things is supposed to react in such a situation.

FWIW, I'd ride with that officer any time-and I'd hope it was someone like him who pulled me over if I ever got stupid drunk and needed to get taken off the road....


Sorry-rant off!

Larry
 

Drop-Shot

New member
I have family that is in the law enforcement fields and I'm with Lord Nikon on this,the officers commands confused me and I don't drink.1 shot and the man was paralized.I have a heart condition and that would have ended my life,I would not have put myself in that state to say the least.When an officer says put your hands on your head or behind your back,you do it and if the driver is in the right you fight it in court,but I agree with 1 shot of a taser but multiple shots will be the short end to a great weapon.Drop-Shot
 

Timulator

New member
I have a heart condition and that would have ended my life, I would not have put myself in that state to say the least. When an officer says put your hands on your head or behind your back,you do it and if the driver is in the right you fight it in court,but I agree with 1 shot of a taser but multiple shots will be the short end to a great weapon.

IMHO, that video was a textbook application of the taser. Yeah, the officer's commands may have been a bit contradictory from a literal standpoint, but come on.... The action demanded is pretty basic! Stay down! Contradictory or not, stop getting back up! Especially after the suspect's behavior immediately previous to the first taser shot, each time the suspect got back up justified another shot of the taser. Absolutely.

As for the taser likely killing Drop-Shot, that is exactly why such weapons are called "less-lethal" weapons as opposed to "non-lethal."
 

Lord_Nikon

New member
Timulator said:
Yeah, the officer's commands may have been a bit contradictory from a literal standpoint, but come on.... The action demanded is pretty basic! Stay down!

WaltherP22ASSN said:
I am an EMT and I see these situations all the time. When a person drinks too much alcohol the reasoning part of the brain is shut off by the ethanol thus the person could become violent and all sorts of problems could occur.
(Emphasis is mine.)

My point seems to stand.
 

Danindetroit

New member
So I am not a congressman, I can't say anything about the government, I am not a lawyer, I can't have an opinion about the supreme court, I have never been president, I never remeber being a sheriff, but I vote for them every four years, I guess I shouldn't vote then, it seems like the unknowing masses, are too stupid, or do not have the experience. Being a police officer is a government function, and taxpayers pay their salary, we can discuss their tactics, just like any government official. I am the one who makes decisions about my health-care, not a Dr. he gives me options, and I pick what I want, if the Dr, is not willing to work with me, I am fortunate enough to have healthcare where I choose my DR.

My wife has worked for the department of corrections for the over 10 years, people she worked with, one is an Oakland County sheriff, the other is a Keego Harbor PO. She has worked as a probation officer, for the last couple of years. My aunt's husband's brother is a US Marshal. This is a guy who she interviewed 2 weeks before this incident, he was assaulted by his wife. She writes pre sentence investigations, and had to get a victim statement, she handed him the paper work, and waited in her car, she told me about "the crazy guy" who got hit in the head with an umbrella stand, by his wife. My wife can get fired, because one of her probationers names is mentioned on the news, they come get her files, and check them over, and if they find a t crossed funny they will fire you.

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/slay20_20030820.htm

I have gotten into fights with drunks, and sober people. This seems to be a forum for people, to discuss things, I do not understand what was so great about the video. If it was a guy getting shocked, get a scanner, and go to traffic accidents where people are injured, I saw enough bodies on the ground while driving a semi-truck, I do not need to see more blood, or sufferring, if it was this officers superior handling of the situation, I have a different view, officers being given time to train, on all sorts of skills, needs to be emphasied, my wife says the training wait for her would be 10 months, that is about 100 felony probationer doors knocked on, including home invasion, lifetime probation for selling drugs, and convicts who were sentenced to probation after serving prison time, plus about 4 pre-sentence investigations a month, with a varying number of people needing to be seen, and seeing people every week in the office. I guess the 1st amendment gives me the right to have, and voice my opinion, not necessarily here, but your teacher might have been right, they do not give rights to anyone under 18, but since I am over 18 your teacher is wrong. That cop, was polite, but lucky. I may be going senile, but I do not remember advocating striking anybody in the head. I guess what if you find out the guy isn't drunk, but sufferring from low blood sugar, and is delerious, and pissed because they know they haven't been drinking, they will not be able to follow commands, and can act just like a drunk. No amount of taserings will help this person.

I have changed manifolds on cars, installed headers, and carbs, I can weld, and do brakes, bleed the lines, I always ask about what a mechanic is doing, and why.
 

NSO_w/_SIG

New member
Ofcourse you can voice your opinion

but it dosen't mean you are right. Being critical of the decisions cops make is easy. Bottom line, until you have been in these situations which demand split second decisons that can at times mean life or death, which come in such a wide variety, then maybe you would think differently. What other profession deamnds that? None! ......... Ok, a combat solider.

What is great about the video? It is humorous for one. Besides that it shows the effects of a taser, which is why i posted it here.

I bet if that guy would of crashed into your car, full of your family, head on you wouldn't be sing that tune. He was taken off the street and noone was hurt, so it was successful.

For those who say that amount of shock would kill a person with a heart condition. Come on gimme a break. Sounds like the guy who told me if he walked through a metal detector with his pace maker it would stop it and he would die. You are just as likely walking up a flight of steps and dying than dying from that amount of shock. Is it possible? yeah. Is it likely? no.
I guess that is something that you'll need to consider before you get drunk, drive and then resist a police officer.

Low blood sugar and delerious? Yeah, and that makes your breath smell just like budwieser. I am sure that cop confirmed that he was drunk as soon as he came within 10 ft.
 
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Derius_T

New member
This discussion is starting to border on the absurd. The guy was drunk, beligerent, had physically resisted the officer, and refused to follow commands. If the commands were a little confusing, SO WHAT? Anyone knows ok....I've been tazed once.....I will NOT FREAKING MOVE, and quickly tell the officer I don't understand his commands, but I will NOT MOVE.
How freakin hard is that to understand? Some of you seem to be almost sympathetic to this idiot drunk. Wow, thats how whining, sissy, liberals are born....I'd be careful.

Fact is, DRUNK, STUPID, RESISTING, NON COMPLIANCE MULTIPLE TIMES, he got what he deserved, and was real, real, lucky I wasn't the LEO in that situation. When he wrestled with me, shoving me towards traffic, he'd have gotten twisted up like a pretzel and ate some asphalt real hard, real fast.

Support your police. He acted with incredible restraint, it ended with no bloodshed, and he got an idiot drunk off the road. The next car he plowed could have been your car, or your family. He should get thank you letters, not critisism.......
 

Conservadude

New member
DT_GUY: While I agree on the value of having an informed opinion based on training and information that applies, I disagree on whether or not someone without training can have an opinion or not ...earned or not. Who are the people that form the checks and balances that keep our government and law enforcement system operating properly? Our doctors from malpracticing? Our lawyers from being unfair? It's the public ...and darn it all, they have enough basic knowledge to know right from wrong and CAN form opinions and state them. No, they shouldn't *do* those various jobs until they are trained, but the public and their opinion should not be underrated or devalued because they didn't go through medical school or the police academy.

The police officer in this case asked they guy over and over IF he was going to do as asked, and the guy continued to say 'no' in no uncertain terms. The guy also continued to to disobey in the simplest of ways. It is very clear that the guy was not going to comply until forced to. The officer did the right thing. My only concern was for the officer. He placed himself at risk with this guy. He either should have forced him to the ground or against the vehicle in a heartbeat instead of holding on to a sleeve and doing the two-step quickie and the Bosanova. Had he responded more appropriately sooner, the taser would likely have been avoided to ...noting that I have absolutely zero problem with this guy getting shot with a taser. I'm glad that he learned a lesson ...or at least I hope he did. Innocent or guilty, citizens need to comply with the officer and do as told, drunk or sober. The officer needs to gain control and maintain it. This officer didn't, and after finally letting to of the guy (fortunately still in possession of both his gun and taser and maglight) and not stabbed or shot by who-knows-what the guy had in his pocket, he finally used a stronger approach. My uncle was a cop in North Portland (Oregon) and I'll tell you what ...you never saw a perp dancing with him, back road or highway. He retired on top of the stack and highly respected.

Brian
 

MCIWS

New member
Saw an in-car-video of a similar situation where the man pulled a M-16A1 (I believe) out of the cab of his truck and shot the officer to death with it. This officer did the right thing by using non-leathel force. It is easy to watch two people play chess and critisize their moves, but once your in the game yourself it is copmletely different.
 

DT Guy

New member
Just to clarify: I never intended to imply people couldn't VOICE their opinions. I should have been clearer.

I meant to suggest we should ascribe differing values to people's opinions based on their apparent knowledge of the subject, their experience and their ability to project themselves intelligently into the position in question.

I certainly feel comfortable having an opinion about our president-I don't feel comfortable, and wouldn't voice an opinion, on the trade differential in gross exports between the US and Istanbul.

In other words, I might judge the effectiveness of someone's actions in a position I've never held, but I wouldn't offer specific critiques of the elements of their job I don't understand, have never done and have performed no research on.

Larry
 

43061

New member
All in all I think the officer did a good job. Maybe there were some things that each of us would have liked to have seen him do better, but how many of you that are “Monday morning quarterbacking” this officer have to deal with uncooperative drunks for a living?

I don’t totally disagree with some of your assessments, but I do have some questions:

Dan, would it really have been better for the officer to drop his flashlight instead of putting it away as he did? I cannot see how providing the drunk with a weapon while the officer was trying to arrest him would be a better choice.

There isn’t enough time or money for required training and equipment in most small departments. Are the politicians going to spend taxpayer money for anything that could be slightly controversial? I think a membership at a health club would have its share of controversy. Even if my city did pay for it, I wouldn’t want to drive the thirty miles each way often enough to make it worthwhile.

Speaking of spending money, I wonder where a department is going to get approval for spending $4000 on weight equipment. I have easily that much money tied up in my own home gym, but not everyone getting paid a police salary can afford that kind of outlay. If I didn’t have military retirement I couldn’t afford to be a cop. If my department had an extra, $1500 I’d vote to have a laptop installed in my cruiser. $4000 and I’d vote for NVG equipment or a Taser.

I spent over $5000 last year on weapons and other equipment my department couldn’t afford to provide me. Again, I’m spending retirement dollars for the assurance of being better armed than the guys running drugs through here.

Someone asked where officer #2 was at. I don’t think that is an unreasonable question, but where I work the second officer is off-duty. I cannot count the number of times I’ve run out of here half dressed in the middle of the night because an officer was requesting backup. There is a sheriff, five deputies, and three police officers in our entire county, and one of us is very likely to need assistance on any given night. The chance of the other officer being within fifteen miles is slim to none. Last year, I probably averaged twice a week where I was responding to calls for assistance that were more than thirty miles away. Keep in mind; I’m one of the police officers, not a deputy.

This is why some officers don’t want cameras in their cruisers. There are too many people that catch a glimpse of some procedural error and miss the fact that the officer was dealing with a belligerent drunk that was not cooperating from the start. He was being arrested because he wouldn’t do SFST.

Just a guess, some of you must be defense attorneys.
 

Relayer

New member
One thought on a possible different course of action for the LEO. IF he had backup coming, he might have waited for LEO #2 to arrived before trying to place the drunk under arrest. That's IF backup was available. If not, then he had to do it himself, obviously. Still, if backup was en route, he would have to prevent the drunk from leaving the scene, if he attempted that.

If he had to make the arrest himself, I think he might have used a little more aggressive/forceful action, and remained within the bounds of initial softhand measures.

Otherwise, he showed excellent restraint. And tried to reason with the subject after the inital takedown. Could his commands have been a bit more precise? Yes, but hey at that point the drunk was probably going on instict, anyway.

Bottom line, he did basically the right thing, in my book. I find it amusing (no, sad, really) when I hear "well, what if the drunk & belligerent driver who's a deadly threat to anyone he meets on the road and wants to resist arrest, falls and hurts himself while assaulting an LEO?"

PLEASE!
 

Para Bellum

New member
I'll buy a taser now

1. The officer was right
What else should he have done? Imagine he didn't have the taser. The BG wanted to go on driving drunk. Should he have shot his leg or tyre and let the BG try some driving with a flat tyre....
Confusing commands? Who of us would have been able to stay as calm and focussed as the officer did? Well done.

2. Great demonstration
I didn't believe the immediate incapacitation by a taser :eek: . I think this beats every handgun (regarding immediate incapacitation). So my lesson here is: I'll continue carrying my 9x19mm and get my wife a taser instead of the pappersprays.

Stay safe.
 
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