Taser in Action.... this is GREAT
- Thread starter NSO_w/_SIG
- Start date
mikikanazawa
New member
LOL, the officer shoulda just tossed the guy a rock so he could hit himself in the head repeatedly.
Danindetroit
New member
I saw a lot of bad things, I think the officer was lucky. I would have used that Mag-light, and maybe ended it right then. That attempt, at an arm hold, some sort of wrist lock, was pathetic. It just seemed that the officer was not even trying. It looked like a gun grab, or a knife suddenly appearing scenario waiting to happen. Technology is great, but sometimes a left or right to the proper place stops it from getting to be a wrestling match. It might be me, but LE training needs to be increased, even if it means finding a gym for them to work out at, both a weightlifting, and a boxing/martial arts facility.
CarlosDJackal
New member
He should have shocked him one more time or sprayed him with OC just for being a dumba** about the whole thing. 
It's a good thing we have in-car videos nowadays so that the agencies and Officers can better defend themselves against any subsecquent lawsuits for excessive use of force.
It's a good thing we have in-car videos nowadays so that the agencies and Officers can better defend themselves against any subsecquent lawsuits for excessive use of force.chris in va
New member
I got the impression after the second shock the guy was simply saying 'no' to his tazering, not trying to resist. A couple times he said 'why are you doing this'.
After the first drop all the cop had to do was run over and handcuff the guy. Looks like he didn't want to get his 'hands dirty'.
After the first drop all the cop had to do was run over and handcuff the guy. Looks like he didn't want to get his 'hands dirty'.
A noncomliant subject that is intoxicated. What this officer did was well within the limits of use of force. The mear fact that the subject was not doing exactly what the officer was instructing is enough to warrent the action taken. Drunk subjects are difficult at best when they are like that guy. He may have been asking why, but he was still resisting. I agree that LEos need better training on physical restraint techniques, but in our lawyerized society, these are seen as too harsh by the lawyers, not the guys on street who need them. However he chose to resolve the situation, he still resolved it within the limits of his legal power to do so.
There's an example here of the confusing commands that can come about in stressful situations - "turn around and put your hands behind your back" while they guy was flat on his back, for instance - the drunk might have been thinking he needed to stand up, turn around, and put his hands behind his back.
Sort of like "Hands up! Get out of the car!"
Sort of like "Hands up! Get out of the car!"
Dusty Miller
New member
In the days before tasers this guy would've gotten back into his car and the chase would've begun, ending up with God only knows what result. The drunk and everybody else is better off due to the use of the taser.
A police officer can't get away with punching someone in the face just because they are resisting arrest, doing so (striking to the head or neck) can be considered use of deadly force and can get them into a lot of trouble.
This officer acted exactly as he was supposed to according to his training. He began with a voice command to the subject instructing him he was under arrest. At this point the subject began to resist physically, the officer moved up to the next level of the force continuum which is soft hand. Soft hand is NOT punching or hitting the subject, it is exactly what the officer did which is simply grabbing the subject in an attempt to control them. The fact that the subject was intoxicated wouldnt help any pain-compliance techniques. The subject continued to resist and the officer responded with the use of the tazer (or pepper spray would have been appropriate as well).
Now had the tazer failed the officer would have been justified in use of hard hands or possibly his baton. The officer was correct to separate himself from the subject and go to tazer rather than wrestling with him. Thus minimizing the risk of a gun-grab or the possiblity of a stab wound had the subject presented a knife.
The force continuum is designed to minimize the risk of injury to the officer or subject, and in this case it worked very well.
This officer acted exactly as he was supposed to according to his training. He began with a voice command to the subject instructing him he was under arrest. At this point the subject began to resist physically, the officer moved up to the next level of the force continuum which is soft hand. Soft hand is NOT punching or hitting the subject, it is exactly what the officer did which is simply grabbing the subject in an attempt to control them. The fact that the subject was intoxicated wouldnt help any pain-compliance techniques. The subject continued to resist and the officer responded with the use of the tazer (or pepper spray would have been appropriate as well).
Now had the tazer failed the officer would have been justified in use of hard hands or possibly his baton. The officer was correct to separate himself from the subject and go to tazer rather than wrestling with him. Thus minimizing the risk of a gun-grab or the possiblity of a stab wound had the subject presented a knife.
The force continuum is designed to minimize the risk of injury to the officer or subject, and in this case it worked very well.
lets push some LEO buttons...
i have not bought into the whole tazer BS. i think its used to often and to quickly. when someone gets tazed and goes down striking their noggin on a bumper or curb and dies how do you call that less than lethal. hell i may have a heart condition that i dont even know about and go into arithmia (sp).
plus, if you taze one of two suspects then shoot the other for the same action the lawyers are gonna have a field day.
mark my works...
2 YEARS.
they will be gone in less than 2 years.
djw, your dept puts shock BETWEEN open and closed hand?
i have not bought into the whole tazer BS. i think its used to often and to quickly. when someone gets tazed and goes down striking their noggin on a bumper or curb and dies how do you call that less than lethal. hell i may have a heart condition that i dont even know about and go into arithmia (sp).
plus, if you taze one of two suspects then shoot the other for the same action the lawyers are gonna have a field day.
mark my works...
2 YEARS.
they will be gone in less than 2 years.
djw, your dept puts shock BETWEEN open and closed hand?
NSO_w/_SIG
New member
Lol @ Pse
Sorry, even if I mark your "works" you're gonna be wrong! The pros far out way the cons. It is the same thing if you spray a person with pepper spray and they happend to have a heart attack. Bump you noggin and die? O well, sorry 'bout your luck maybe you should have thought of that before you decided to resist.
By the way the saying goes "mark my words"
And in the use of force yes a neutralizing agent, pepper spray or taser comes before punching or hitting with a baton, followed by deadly force.
Sorry, even if I mark your "works" you're gonna be wrong! The pros far out way the cons. It is the same thing if you spray a person with pepper spray and they happend to have a heart attack. Bump you noggin and die? O well, sorry 'bout your luck maybe you should have thought of that before you decided to resist.
By the way the saying goes "mark my words"
And in the use of force yes a neutralizing agent, pepper spray or taser comes before punching or hitting with a baton, followed by deadly force.
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Lord_Nikon
New member
Agree with NSO_w/_SIG, but I do agree that the officer's commands became a bit unclear as the incident progressed, including telling the subject to "turn around and place your hands behind your back" when the subject was on his stomach and still tremoring. I think the officer was right to tazer the subject in the first place, but subsequent shocks were perhaps given too quickly and without clear commands.
Danindetroit
New member
I believe that force escalation is left up to individual departments. Not every department has tasers. Before the tasering incident began, officer too close to subject, officers feet too close together, and parallel to each other, making him an easy target for a push back wards, or a kick to the legs, that knock both feet out from under him, both his hands behind his back putting flashlight away, while right in front of drunk, who knows they are going to jail, drop flashlight, and drunk might look at it, and create opening, moves very slowly to use "soft hands" approach, gets pushed all the way off camera, into possible traffic, does not use feet during physical encounter with individual, should have disengaged quickly, after realising training and abilities were not adequate to subdue subject, possibility of drunk grabbing equipment and getting mad increases with time spent wrestling, and then tased him, and jumped on him, and cuffed him. Solution, department pays for effective training for officers, gets officers membership, at health club, to increase strength, or buys equipment, a very effective strength system can be bought for under $4,000, how much does a gadget belt cost? A hook to the hip, or short ribs, a poke to the solar plexus probably would have given a quicker officer the time needed to cuff this guy quite effectively. I guess cleaning a vehicle, or shining boots, or some other thing is more important, than getting officers home, what happens when the taser malfunctions?
Teufelhunden
New member
He might not have been able to . Some OC sprays are alcohol based, which means that the arcing action of the TASER can ignite the liquid, which results in a 'either-or' scenario as far as your non-lethals are concerned.
-Teuf
I would pat the officer on the back and say "Good job sir"
To get a piece of crap like that off the road was the most important thing, and the fact that the officer handled him self in a very professional manner says a lot about him as a man.
Personaly I would have shot the SOB and hooked the tazer up to the car battery and left him there.
To get a piece of crap like that off the road was the most important thing, and the fact that the officer handled him self in a very professional manner says a lot about him as a man.
Personaly I would have shot the SOB and hooked the tazer up to the car battery and left him there.
NSO_w/_SIG
New member
Dan
I am not saying that the officer used proper tactics.
Tasers and Pepper Spray fall into the same category as far as the force continuum. And I don't care what department you are at, these two weapons should be deployed before physically punching or hitting a BG with a baton or asp. It is for the safety of both the officer and the suspect. In general tasers and pepper spray neutralize people well enough for them to be subdued with relatively minor and short lasting effects. On the other hand punching or hitting with a fist or asp can cause much more long term trauma and besides that puts the officer in more danger.
Yeah it would be great if every officer was a black belt in whatever and could bench 400 lbs. That however is not realistic, how about a female officer trying to subdue a 300 lb man?
Tasers are a good tool whether or not they are always deployed at the proper time, who knows? But I know if I was a dumb drunk like this guy I would be thankful the next day that the officer tased me rather than waking up with 20 stiches in my head from getting cracked with a baton or a mag light.
"What happens when the taser malfunctions"? LOL, yeah that is a great argument, you could say that about any equipment that officers use. Guns, flashlights, cars, pepper spray ect.... all can malfunction does that mean that all those should not be used.
Yeah having fighting skills or knowing tactics to take someone down are great and LEO should most deffinetly have at the very least a basic knowledge of those skill but they should only be used as a contingency to other options.
I am not saying that the officer used proper tactics.
Tasers and Pepper Spray fall into the same category as far as the force continuum. And I don't care what department you are at, these two weapons should be deployed before physically punching or hitting a BG with a baton or asp. It is for the safety of both the officer and the suspect. In general tasers and pepper spray neutralize people well enough for them to be subdued with relatively minor and short lasting effects. On the other hand punching or hitting with a fist or asp can cause much more long term trauma and besides that puts the officer in more danger.
Yeah it would be great if every officer was a black belt in whatever and could bench 400 lbs. That however is not realistic, how about a female officer trying to subdue a 300 lb man?
Tasers are a good tool whether or not they are always deployed at the proper time, who knows? But I know if I was a dumb drunk like this guy I would be thankful the next day that the officer tased me rather than waking up with 20 stiches in my head from getting cracked with a baton or a mag light.
"What happens when the taser malfunctions"? LOL, yeah that is a great argument, you could say that about any equipment that officers use. Guns, flashlights, cars, pepper spray ect.... all can malfunction does that mean that all those should not be used.
Yeah having fighting skills or knowing tactics to take someone down are great and LEO should most deffinetly have at the very least a basic knowledge of those skill but they should only be used as a contingency to other options.