Talking about the Skull and Bones will get you tasered.

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SpectreBlofeld

New member
DON'T TASE ME, BRO!

Best part of the video. I need to make a t-shirt that says that.

The problem with less-than-lethal weapons is that it lowers the standard for application of force.
 
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joab

New member
Sorry to disappoint you Tourist but I can't think of one counter or real disagreement to your argument

I tried I really did

Personally I wouldn't care if it was the Pope up there I would have felt the same and laughed just as hard, but I have no policitcal agenda to pursue
 
T

The Tourist

Moderator
joab said:
Sorry to disappoint you Tourist
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Don't worry. It's well thought out debates that keep me here. Besides, I spend most of the day either banging weights or staring off onto a knife bevel--I have plenty of time to respond to your posts with a well constructed retort, rebuttal, remise or dissemble.

but I can't think of one counter or real disagreement to your argument, I tried I really did
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Okay, now you're scaring me. I must have made a mistake somewhere...

Personally I wouldn't care if it was the Pope
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Okay, now that's just a gimmee. I'd pay real money to see some 11-dollar per hour Barney Fife lay the electrodes into the (ahem) Holy See.

It's just the principle of the thing. All of those vatican members and their secret organizations, all wearing the same clothes, emblems of office on their backs, bizarre jewelry, riding around in their specially constructed vehicles, scaring the heck out of people...

...you'll never catch me doing that.
 
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applesanity

New member
I was wondering, given all this fuss over nothing, what is the best way for a cop to stop a crybaby college student who is obviously trying to make a scene to get his 15 minutes, while being surrounded by cameras?

Is it always going to be lose-lose? Don't do your job, or do your job and get put on "paid administrative leave?"
 
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seeker_two

New member
Okay, now that's just a gimmee. I'd pay real money to see some 11-dollar per hour Barney Fife lay the electrodes into the (ahem) Holy See.
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Not me...the Pope carries backup...and He's got a lot more volts handy... :eek:
 
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FirstFreedom

Moderator
This guy had it coming, for sure. He was trespassing after being asked to leave, and physically resisted.

I found it really funny - "Ow, Ow, Owwwww, Owwwww, Owwww!" :)

I just don't find this one a close call - he was pulling his arm from behind his back, resisting the handcuffing.
 
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BoringAccountant

New member
He did not resist with violence. He never struck or threatened the safety of any police officer. At best -and even that is not certain in the full video - he was not 100% cooperative with them.
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As soon as he tried to push the officers away he was resisting with violence.
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+1

Tourist, while I agree with your points of whether or not this becomes a story in the MSM based on who it is...are we in agreement that regardless of who it is, they should have been tased if they acted as the college kid did?
 
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BamaXD

New member
My favorite part is the continuation, after they took him out of the main speech hall and down the stairs where they were talking to him and he started screaming to everyone around to come see him at the jail and ask him where they took him because the government was going to kill him. He sounded like he was off his meds big time.

Tasering and the continuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NWukZhsiBw
 
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The Tourist

Moderator
seeker_two said:
Not me...the Pope carries backup...and He's got a lot more volts handy...
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That was another aspect I used when discussing a "two level" application to free speech.

Whether you/we like it or not, there are people/organizations that just won't stand for this type of treatment.

I'm not sure I would.

And truth be told, I'm not sure the average TFL member here would, either. Obviously, most of us like freedom and the rights enumerated by The Bill of Rights. Can you fathom the action of a strict construction, using The First, and having Ofc. Fife grab his jacket...

And with the cameras rolling for all to see, does any group or candidate want to be connected with this fiasco?

In the shorthand of a watercooler discussion, this is going to forever be known as "the Kerry taser incident."

If you get a chance, read the article in the September 20th WSJ.

The TFL members are not the only ones discussing free speech.

(BTW, I think this Kerry incident is a good place to discuss The First. Do not be fooled by my discourse. I don't like guys like this. He's probably a loud-mouth that gets picked last in softball. However, the idea of unpopular speech is a good topic here. Sooner or later a very unpopular man, like that commuter shooter we had a few years back who represented himself in court, is going to legally buy a firearm and we will be discussing that fallout relating to The Second.)
 
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PT111

New member
The way I see this incident has nothing to do with the first amendment or who was speaking or who he was speaking to. Some have brought up the red light deal on presidential debates and I thin that you will fing that most cantidates go over their allotaced 30 seconds or how long but what would happend if one kept talking for and extra 10 minutes. How would that go over with the public. At the academy awards several clebrities have gotten upset when the networks have cut away from them if they exceeded their time for acceptance speeches.

If we allow anyone who wants to ask all the questions they want at everyone of these deals there will be a lot less of them. This fellow stepped all over the first amendment rights of the person already asking a question. Why did he, and some of you, feel his rights trumped the rights of the person already asking a question? If we don't have some order then we don't have rights. Your rights end where mine begin and vice-versa.

The fellow was asked several times to quit. When he didn't he was removed. The video I saw showed him being notified that his time was up several times and he just kept shouting. When he was forcibly removed he fought back. When he refused to comply with the instructions of the officers and kept fighting, and yes he was fighting, they moved to the next step which was the tazer.

Some have said he had the right to protest an illegal arrest but who determines if it is an illegal arrest. I still say that this had nothing to do with the first ammendment andif it had been me I sure wouldn't waste my 15 minutes of fame protesting at a John Kerry speech. Make it count at a Bill or Hillary rally.
 
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johnbt

New member
"But despite the arguments over the conditions of his speech, an American was shot by a another American for the outrage of disagreeing with an American."

Oh nonsense. Do you make this stuff up yourself or do you have writers? Speakers agreed to stick to the time limit. I don't think he stuck to any of the rules.

You confuse freedom of speech with anarchy. He was free to speak his mind at his own event. He wasn't free to abuse the invitation to attend someone else's event and speak during his allotted time.

John
 
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Musketeer

New member
Some people here seem to think the 1A allows them to walk into another's property and begin babbling away as long as they wish. The lack of understanding of the COTUS, even here, makes me weep.
 
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snaptafar

New member
new bumper sticker

taze_store2.jpg
 
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CarbineCaleb

New member
Freedom of Speech still actually has limits. Think about it - if anyone who wanted to could stand in the US Senate and shout whatever they liked, as long as they liked, how would anything ever get done?

There are laws against disturbing the peace, interfering with a public assembly, disorderly conduct, etc., any of which could be invoked here. The kid does not actually want to ask a question, he wants to act out and get attention. Furthermore, he never seems satisfied that enough is enough.

I don't see any problem with removing him. And given that he is actually much bigger than most of the police officers there and energetically resisting (watch what he does rather than listen to what he says), I can see they were having a difficult time and in some danger themselves. The police reported today at least that 2 of the officers received injuries from struggling with the kid. In an ideal world, you'd have had officers big enough to just overpower the kid, but they didn't - tasing may have some risk, but they needed to protect themselves and somehow get control of this situation. In my opinion the tasing may be a small tactical mistake, but that's it. The kid is fine, so what is the big deal?
 
T

The Tourist

Moderator
BoringAccountant said:
Tourist, are we in agreement that regardless of who it is, they should have been tased if they acted as the college kid did?
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I believe in equal justice under the law. That is, if there was sufficient reason to taser the kid, then there would also be sufficient reason to taser Mother Teresa if she got out of line.

But as I tried to point out, that is never going to happen.

For example, Martin Sheen almost has a cottage industry being arrested. You ever see a mark on his face?

Same thing with what I call "containment," for lack of a better word. If there are hundreds of protestors in a group--and one of them is this smart mouth kid--do you risk a riot firing one taser? Of course not. Your action might be the spark to the powder keg.

BTW, I was never treated as well in the penal system as Paris Hilton. Where do you register for those private cells? The booking concierge?

Face it, in circumstances like this, there is a two-step tier of enforcement.
 
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applesanity

New member
Well TheTourist, money and power does come wth its benefits.

All the more reason for me to become rich and powerful.

The day may come when I have all cops on my payroll (or at least the cops in charge of the cops). If you pay me, I'll assure you that they'll never tase you whenever you feel the need to express your first amendment rights.
 
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