Talking about the Skull and Bones will get you tasered.

[joab]

I also believe that this touches on one of my pet peeves. People believe that they have to "like" someone, that there is "a good fit," and we should all work toward 'consensus.'

You might want to go back and reread my comment
It has nothing to do with whether I like the kid or Kerry.
It could have been Jesus or Hitler up there and Michael Moore or Ghandi showing their ass
My opinion would have been the same
He broke the law and actively resisted arrest, light him up

 

[The Tourist]

He broke the law and actively resisted arrest, light him up

Yes, here I agree with you. He did, in fact, break some law in some municipality, and he will be tried and most likely convicted.

My argument (while it touches on that point) suggests that there is a 'second layer' of law, and how free speech applies to this issue.

Consider these as logical targets for a taser at that speech:

As I have stated, Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Any veteran awarded the CMoH who challenges Kerry and his record.
A priest or minister.
One hundred, NRA card carrying members of The Hells Angels and their attorney.
The mayor or ranking alderman of that municipality.
A police officer.
A woman. Any woman.

If you shrug and say, "Well, Tourist, there are some exceptions to any rule."

Normally, I would agree. However this incident applies to the rule of law, The First, and our concept of equal justice under the law.

If you taser one, you must taser them all. And frankly, what we really are defining here is a wise mouth kid who basically "interrupted an elder."

Yikes, if my Dad would have access to a taser I would have more useable electrical current coursing through my body than The Energizer Bunny.

(Hey, Joab, write more. You're one of my favorite debating buddies!)

 

[joab]

I think you have simplified the matter too much

Yes there are different response to different situations

An Arnold sized criminal should be tasered at the very first sign of resistance

A hundred hells Angles should be met by the riot squad the big sticks

A woman any woman should be easily detained, but it has been well documented that the police are not afraid to tase them

This kid was not tased for confronting Kerry and claiming that cost you much needed credibility
He was tased for failure to comply with a lawful order and resisting with violence

Schwartzkopf, private Miller or Audey Murphey himself should be subject to the same treatment

Whether they would be is simply a matter of speculation
But in this day of Congress men being arrested for playing footsie in the bathroom I lean toward the speculation that they would have been lit up also

 

[MicroBalrog]

He was tased for failure to comply with a lawful order and resisting with violence

He did not resist with violence. He never struck or threatened the safety of any police officer. At best -and even that is not certain in the full video - he was not 100% cooperative with them.

A tactic with protesters in Israel is to lie down, forcing the officers to carry them around. I assume you would want people who do that to be tazed, too?

 

[Wildalaska]

The idiot wanted what he got, and deserved what he wanted.

WildbusierthanamoveonfreakazoidinascreechfestAlaska TM

 

[Fremmer]

Yeah, he threw a temper-tantrum in an effort to interfere with the event, messed with the cops, and got what he deserved.

And I wasn't too impressed with the code pink idiots who were trying to pull the same stunt in the congressional hearings regarding Iraq last week, either. Shouting and trying to prevent members of congress from being able to conduct the hearings, and then screaming when they were asked to leave, and screaming while they were being dragged out of the room after they refused to leave.

Hey, if you want to express yourself, fine. But there is a big difference between protected expression vis-a-vis an obnoxious attempt to disrupt/prevent a hearing or other event from happening.

 

[Wildalaska]

I love the way the little numbskull was screaming and yowling as they tasered him, what a crybaby.

I got the living bejesus beat out of me with a night stick at a demonstration in 1976 and didnt cry like that, and I got stitches too

WildtheseprotestersneedtotoughenupAlaska TM

 

[Musketeer]

If you taser one, you must taser them all. And frankly, what we really are defining here is a wise mouth kid who basically "interrupted an elder."

I have no problem with taserring all of them. Rather than cry out against the treatment given to the "wise mouthed kid" who got what he deserved you should instead cry out when you see preferential treatment is given.

Just because Ted Kennedy got away with murder becasue of who he was does not mean others should get away with it. Instead we should work to raise the level of treatment to all rather than lower it to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Fremmer]

Yeah, I'd have tazed him just for calling me "bro". I ain't your "bro", wuss boy! [ZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPP!!!}

 

[joab]

He did not resist with violence. He never struck or threatened the safety of any police officer.

From my understanding (past charges) resiting without violence is when you refuse to let them have your hands, go limp or generally refuse to be arrested
Violence enters the charging picture when you start physically pushing the cops around in an effort not to be arrested as we see in the more honst depiction in the YouTube video

It is also quite obvious even with the very selective editing in the first video that he was not handcuffed when they tased him because the heavy cop was holding his hand at the time

 

[JuanCarlos]

Cross-posted from the redundant thread:

If Kerry was a stand up guy...which he has never been, he should have cowboy'd up and allow this adolescent to speak...

Actually, I believe he tried to do just that. I'll have to watch the video again, but I'm pretty sure he tried (at least halfheartedly) to call the officers off so he could address the kid's question.

 

[Fremmer]

[ZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPP!!!!]

Oops, sorry about that Juan, I should have kept my finger off of that tazer trigger.

 

[Redworm]

my reply in the other thread before I noticed this one:

yeah...that guy was being a douchenozzle for the sake the camera. horrible acting on his part, too


Were the cops justified in using the buzzer? Maybe. It's possible they could have gotten him out of there without it but the guy was being pretty violent and non-compliant.

There was no infringement on rights. This was a private function and those running it have the right to say who can and cannot be on their property.

 

[Musketeer]

From a buddy of mine on another forum who lives in Central FL:

From the Gainesville Newspaper.....

Police have released the incident report detailing the Tasering of a University of Florida student during a campus forum with Sen. John Kerry Monday, and the officer who actually Tasered Andrew Meyer wrote in the report that Meyer later told police, "You didn't do anything wrong."

In the 12-page report, which gives accounts of the incident from the perspective of eight different officers who were present Monday afternoon, Officer Nicole Mallo writes that Meyer would only resist officers when cameras were present.

The report details the events leading up to Meyer's arrest, saying that Meyer was in line to ask a question of Sen. Kerry when it was decided that no more questions would be allowed.

Meyer continued down the aisle toward Sen. Kerry angrily, according to police, saying he wanted the senator to answer his question because he had been waiting for two hours.

Though Sen. Kerry directed that Meyer be allowed to ask his question, police reported that Meyer did not ask any specific question and instead "badgered" the senator, and at one point said something about President Clinton being impeached over a sexual act.

At that point, police reported that ACCENT Director Max Tyroler turned off Meyer's microphone and asked police to escort him out of the auditorium, saying, "He had said enough," according to Officer Mallo's report.

Officers then proceeded to attempt to remove Meyer from the room, but when he resisted, they placed him on the ground and tried to handcuff him. The six officers who actually took part in holding Meyer down while he was being handcuffed reported that they were only able to get a handcuff on his right hand because he was squirming so much.

The supervising officer, Sgt. Eddie King, attempted to Taser Meyer on his chest, but he reported that his Taser would not deploy. He then instructed Mallo to Taser Meyer, and she Tasered him on his shoulder, according to one of the officer's report.

The officers were then able to fully handcuff Meyer and escort him from the building. Each of the six officers reported that Meyer yelled things like, "They're going to kill me," and, "They are giving me to the government," while he was being taken from the room.


"As (Meyer) was escorted down stairs (at the University Auditorium) with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down stairs he started screaming and yelling again," Mallo wrote.

Mallo was one of two officers who actually rode in the vehicle as Meyer was escorted to the Alachua County jail, and she said said he told them during the ride: "I am not mad at you guys, you didn't do anything wrong, you were just trying to do your job," according to Mallo's account.

Mallo also wrote in her report that he asked, at one point, if cameras would be present at the jail.

End of excerpts......

Now I don't know about the rest of ya'll but this paints a pretty interesting story about one of the key elements of any crime ... MOTIVE

That motive was publicity.

The punk got what he deserved and nothing less.

and this appears to be the article.

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/article/20070919/NEWS/709190335/-1/search01

 

[DonR101395]

He did not resist with violence. He never struck or threatened the safety of any police officer. At best -and even that is not certain in the full video - he was not 100% cooperative with them.

As soon as he tried to push the officers away he was resisting with violence.

 

[BillCA]

He'll ultimately be charged with breach of the peace, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest. They'll let him plead out to breach of the peace... just watch.

He got his five minutes of fame -- for being an IDIOT in public. For being a wimpy, pansy-a** crybaby when faced with the real world consequences of his actions. Yeah, I hope that hot chick in his journalism class sees the video and walks to his face to say "you are such a jerk!"

 

[applesanity]

They'll let him plead out to breach of the peace... just watch.

Well... you forget about what the school might do.

At the Alma Mater, the Republican Club pulled the greatest publicity stunt in years - they invited that leader of the MinuteMan Project for a Q & A... to one of the most tree-huggin, bleeding heart schools in this country (hint: assistant professor de Genova once asked for "a million Mogadishus" to happen in Iraq).

The Republican Club got exactly what they wanted (but probably didn't anticipate how well it would turn out): a bunch of protestors bum-rushed the stage and made complete fools of themselves. Being a private university, there were no real 5-0 around to issue out real charges. Instead,

They were expelled. 40K+ tuition per year X a few years + expulsion = very bad.

Imagine the job interviews: "well Mr. Applicant, it appears that you never finished college."

"Yeah... about that... I was kicked out."

Going back to the first post: no matter which option you choose in the original question, it's bad press nonetheless. U. Florida probably doesn't want this kind of bad press. Time to make an example of this crybaby.

 

[The Tourist]

Joab,

The reason I picked the group I did was to demonstrate how situational ethics would have changed the outcome of this non-story.

You'll remember, a very unlikeable kid got tasered, and most folks thought he had it coming. I chose the people I did because this was not an awards ceremony for some redneck in a sweaty shirt that just bowled 300. Like him or not, Kerry is a Democrat of some import. There will be soundbytes for weeks.

For example, Arnie is a slam dunk. No matter how hard Arnold would have lambasted Kerry, even for being indecisive, no leftie wants to make political hay for the opposition.

Do you think Kerry would have wanted a decorated vet tasered and cuffed? Does the phrase "swift boat" mean anything to you. Kerry would be political road kill.

A priest or minister. We'd have every denomination screaming jihad. Over 91% of America believes in some type of higher power.

As for 100 Hells Angels and their attorney, I put that one in there for me. Oh, you're probably right. They would have called out the National Guard. Look how this thread has grown over one kid getting hit by one taser. Imagine a 1,000 tasers--and an attorney. Imagine just New Orleans shreiking, "You got Feds for Angels in a second, we're still waiting..." Heck, I'd have jumped into that brawl just for the comedy.

The mayor or ranking alderman? There's already enough anymosity over state and federal funding. I can see the next mayoral candidate, "Vote for me, I'll ask the tough questions, I'll take a taser for my constituents."

A police officer? A cop is a member of a union. Kerry doesn't need union trouble now. 'Nuff said.

As for tasering a woman on camera, any woman, most of America still finds violence against women offensive. The lefties are supposed to champion the rights of women. What if that woman had been pregnant? I can see some sleazy reporter from The National Enquirer, "My Kerry, have you stopped tasering women?"

In any of these scenarios contributing factors would have led to a more restrained response--at least in front of cameras. Now we're on the slippery slope. And like we have said, The First covers unpopular political speech.

No matter what happens to the kid, Kerry is going to get smeared for the letting a heckler trump him, creating a situation that smeared a leftie meeting, fodder for late night comediennes or horrors, actually violating the kid's rights.

Yikes, I think Kerry looked like a stiff and I disrespect him even more. Run a country? Lead the Demcratic party? He can't even control a mouthy kid and a justifiable arrest.

 

[Musketeer]

Sorry, I can't see Kerry being smeared for this. I hate the guy and don't think this has anything to do with him aside from proximity.

 

[The Tourist]

Sorry, I can't see Kerry being smeared for this.

When it comes to news in this country, people will get tied to singular events. And Kerry is already known mostly as wishy-washy, or as a guy who flip-flops.

For example, if I mention G. Gordon Liddy, what do you think of?

Describe the Lyndon Johnson era in one word.

Why is Kent State University famous?

In a more timely note, what about OJ Simpson?

Obviously these guys lived multi-faceted lives, but they remembered for defining moments. To make matters worse, I think of Gore and Kerry linked in one bland shade of dull gray.

In fact, I don't know if I'll be able to say the word 'taser' without thinking about this.