Talk about "trigger jobs"

[Wisby]

Does anyone know if testing of any sort has ACTUALLY been done on this subject.

I'm going to really try and Step out of the Box here and get a look at this from every view I can.

I can see how the Idea of a Very light trigger could be a bad idea, if you did a really bad trigger job and there wasn't enough seer to keep the trigger held.
Even in this case the Gun can not go off if there is no bullet in it. With a proper trigger job the gun should nvr go off from being bounce or joscled (spell that).

Maybe your thinking of having a Gun in a 4 wheeler rack or behind the seat of a Truck and driving around on a Ranch or farm lots of bumps and bounceing. I have heard storys of guns going off in Trucks before while people where driving but can not say it was because of a light trigger pull and I don't think having a heavier trigger pull would have prevented this. I DO believe no bullet in the Chamber when your driving over rocky ground would have.

I also believe if you practice basic gun safety and you have a trigger that is over all safe for whatever trigger pull it is set at then the only Dangerous part of the equation is the person holding it.

I took the time to Explain why I think a light Trigger pull is safe, pls take the time to tell me WHY you think it isn't...
BTW If you feel comfortable with a firearm with a heavier trigger pull and that is your only reason then I feel thats a justified reason but don't walk into a Church and tell everyone in it they are Going to HELL just because you say so...

 

[JesterXD40]

comp guns and carry guns can have trigger jobs.

ex. most XD pistols come with a 5-8lb trigger. Having the trigger done doesn't always mean lighter. I had mine done the same weight, just had the take up and reset shortened.


You saying that 40 years shooting makes you the know it all of safe gun handleing is like me saying that being a primary marksmanship instructor for the Marine Corps makes me better than you. Light triggers have their place, as in my 1k rifle, 4 oz trigger, but my hunting pistol is 4 lbs, and my carry pistol is 5 lbs.

I agree that it would be dangerious to carry a >2lb trigger on a CC pistol, and the "heat" of the moment might get to you, and an accident might happen, but saying all trigger jobs are bad is like saying guns kill people.

 

[918v]

Just look at his posting history. Seems he loves cheap guns. Of course, when you consider that the cost of a good trigger job exceeds the cost of his gun, you can't blame him for his position as it applies to his collection.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion although many of us may disagree.

"Light" is, of course, a metter of taste and my hunting rifles have worn 18 oz triggers for the past 15 years. No problems with that although it's not for everyone....no would it be "safe" for everyone. A light touch is cultivated.

Same as carrying any type of weapon. Find what works for you and take responsibility for it. A 1lb trigger is no less deadly than a 10lb one....it is however, a bit easier to avoid pulling the shot for ME.

 

[last_stand]

you're all wrong...

...the only safe trigger is NO trigger, the only safe gun is NO gun...i say ban em all...the gov't can protect you better than you can protect yourself...you aren't responsible enough to own a gun!!!


that is sarcasm, I'm sorry I was just bored, please don't throw rocks...

 

[GallantAlpha]

Straight trigger finger!

Might as well throw in my thoughts on this thread.

I've spent around 8 weeks in USMC Security Forces School. Pretty intensive training, room clearing both in buildings and navel vessels. The one thing that was drilled into my brain then is the first thing that comes to mind when ever I approach any long gun or hand gun today.

STRAIGHT TRIGGER FINGER! STRAIGHT TRIGGER FINGER!

 

[mitchcoyote]

918V, your not going to get me to sink to your level........

 

[iudoug]

Mitch...before judging.....

try and find somebody with a gun with a trigger job done and shoot it.....I really think you would change your mind. The custom pistols/rifles all come with better triggers.......I think you would be suprised after a few shots how safe one is....after all...the better you shoot the safer you are!!

 

[mitchcoyote]

iudoug, I apreciate your response and opinion. And I understand what you are saying. I've just grew up believing hair triggers were not a good idea so grew my belief they were unsafe guns to use. I had a few guns in that category and I got rid of them. This was long before I met shooters who made their triggers light on purpose, therefore when I would shoot around these people I was always and still am apprehensive.My only intention of this thread was to offer an alternative view of of all the talk I was hearing on trigger jobs. If could have predicted that I would have been insulted by people like 918V, I would have kept my observations to myself. I assumed a certain level of maturity from the people on this forum. I'll be much more carefull with my next thread if I offer one, and be reserved in my posts as well. Despite the insults I enjoy this forum a lot. Again, thanks for your suggestions..........

 

[ranburr]

No one insulted you. I think he just stated what many of us felt. I think your rant was insulting to those of us who always get trigger jobs on all of our guns. No standard production gun leaves the factory today with a trigger that would have even been considered acceptable (much less good) 20yrs ago. Todays triggers are "lawyer triggers" and need to worked over if you want to get the most out of your gun.

ranburr

 

[Jart]

There were some conspicuously "low road" responses to Mitch's thread. I've got about a decade on MC, so I'll offer a few "old dood" ramblings:

1. "Hair trigger" was occasionally encountered as a pejoritive applied to a "bubba" trigger job. These were, indeed, not safe.

2. In those prehistoric times before GCA '68 there were more shooters and less training. The "Hollywood carry", where the trigger finger rested on the trigger, was disturbingly common - something else that wouldn't endear one to the notion of real light triggers.

3. Don't believe the rumors that triggers were universally better in days of yore. A lot were, but some (my Hunter arms comes to mind) were horrible. OTOH, my Ithaca-Tikka from the pre-disco era has a 2.2 pound let off that would take a Blaser R93 to duplicate today "out-of-box".

Times change. A trigger job these days is likely to be done right. Even SIG offers factory tuning. Most people know to keep their fingers off the trigger.

If you can't remember vinyl albums, you can't remember when "hair triggers" were occasionally scary. Might have been nice if we could get Mitch checking out how much things have changed but, with a few notable exceptions, I doubt we did that good of a job of rationally presenting our view.

IMHO

 

[Majic]

1. "Hair trigger" was occasionally encountered as a pejoritive applied to a "bubba" trigger job. These were, indeed, not safe.

That statement still applies today, but just like yesterday a safe light trigger can be obtained today. The "hair trigger" was a term used by some for a light trigger. It has been applied to a safe and a dangerous trigger. A safe light trigger (or hair trigger for some) was only dangerous for someone who didn't understand how to use it. The original poster stated that lightening a trigger is both unnecessary and unsafe. He obviously believes that where the factory sets the trigger should not be changed and we should live with it. Others have just pointed out that even though he may believe that doesn't make it a fact.
I remember listening to the platters (I still have my turntable and quite a selection of records) and a poorly done trigger job back then is no different than one done today. Also a competent person doing a trigger job today is no better at the task than a competent one from yesteryear. I've seen trashed hammers and sears today just like in the past. Time hasn't magically made everyone competent and smarter.

 

[Jart]

It did seem that there were more bubba-type jobs back then, but that's just my impression, backed up by no facts. Perhaps we weren't so willing to litigate the offending shop out of business as would now be the case.

Time wouldn't make the average individual with a set of files any more competent, but it might make him more circumspect and hence more rare. I still see trashed stuff, but it's now predominately self-inflicted.

Try getting a 'smith to ditch Kimber series II parts in 2006. It's near impossible. A "job" of that nature would have been easy to get done 30 years ago.

Of course, I might be living a more sheltered life these days. The last real bubba I got was a butcher shop in Arlington, TX now mercifully out of business.

 

[Gewehr98]

Mitch would hate my Canjars, Jewells, and Timneys...

I've just grew up believing hair triggers were not a good idea so grew my belief they were unsafe guns to use. I had a few guns in that category and I got rid of them. This was long before I met shooters who made their triggers light on purpose, therefore when I would shoot around these people I was always and still am apprehensive.

And that kind of reaction/reasoning is what we call "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". People who use that logic also come up with S&W internal revolver locks, Savage Accu-Triggers, and Remington J-Locks.

 

[DunedinDragon]

Personally, I think Mitch might be right....

Trigger jobs are EVIL and they make the gun do EVIL things..

Why just last night I put a light trigger pull on my 1911 and later that night it jumped up out of my safe and went down and held up the corner convenience store!! Naturally I took it back down to the store and made it return all the money it had stolen and told it if it couldn't restrain itself from doing evil things I'd have to put it's heavy trigger back on!!!

I don't know if that worked or not, but I fully intend to keep an eye on it for now...I'll keep everyone updated on my situation.....

 

[gac009]

for some people a hair trigger is not safe, this is because they cant get the idea of "keep your finger off the trigger untill you are ready to shoot" through their thick skulls. for the rest of us that understand this a hair trigger is no big deal.

 

[Savage10FP308]

What is wrong with the accutrigger?

As an obviously proud owner of a Savage 10FP with accutrigger, I would like to ask what is wrong with it? I love it! It is the most pleasant trigger I have ever pulled and came on the rifle straight from the factory.

 

[mitchcoyote]

Appearently there is a lot of posters who think they know more about a gun than the gun manufacturer. Therefore they ignore the advice of the manufacturer.....

 

[Gewehr98]

Relax. Accutriggers are just fine...

They're probably the greatest thing since sliced bread - for those who've never experienced better. And by better I mean a light, clean, crisp, adjustable, un-dorked with trigger as found on the earlier Remington 700, Winchester Model 70, Browning BAR, or any of the aftermarket triggers like Canjar, Shilen, Timney, Dayton, Jewell, Milazzo-Krieger, Rifle Basix, and so forth. They all did just hunky-dory without that gay pre-trigger sear release thingy sticking straight out the front of the trigger, reminiscent of Glock triggers, and never went off by themselves, nor stalked the streets looking for victims. Gunowners knew where the responsibility for pulling the trigger was, and all was good, the liability lawyers were kept at bay by such truisms as "keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot", and so forth.

Over the last 30 years I've watched as trigger pulls went from crisp and clean to downright atrocious, all in an attempt to placate liability lawyers and shift responsibility away from the Four Rules. Savage produced a beautifully adjustable and clean trigger on their Model 110, until just a few years ago. I know, I own one. It looks something like this:

And here's how John Q. Public could adjust it down to three pounds, without killing himself, or anybody else, or tacking on a stupid pre-trigger sear release thingy:

http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/savage110trigger.html

It wouldn't kill the engineers at Savage to deep six that AccuTrigger abortion and bring the earlier adjustable trigger back, and send the liability lawyers and their piss-poor compromises packing. In the meantime, a company called Rifle Basix is doing a darned good job of just that, and hardly needs my endorsement for the business they're generating with AccuTrigger replacements. The gun-buying crowd at Wal-Mart may not realize it, but there is better available.

 

[Gewehr98]

Sorry, Mitch.

I'll put your bazillion years shooting experience up against mine, any day, any time. Don't parade yourself into a gun forum spouting stuff like what you did, without backing it up, and not expect to be called on the carpet. And for the record, I am indeed calling you on the carpet.

Here's how it works. Part of my bazillion years (Art gets the nod with several bazillion years' of shooting experience) was shooting competitively in many disciplines, as well as hunting and just plain plinking. Not only that, but I was also qualifying with M16, M38, M4, M9, and M1911 every year for the last 20 years as my issue weapon or sidearm. Wanna know what the common thread in accurate shooting was in all those disciplines? Good triggers, and good trigger discipline. You can't shoot worth sour owl crap if you're horsing the gun around trying to manipulate a million-pound scratchy, creepy, stacky trigger.

Which is why, horror of horrors, the factories often provide quality triggers in their firearms. (Savage, take note...) It may surprise you to know the Remington 40X benchrest/varmint rig I purchased earlier this year has a 6-ounce trigger and no safety. Ohmygawsh! It's just not safe, and how dare Remington's factory sell such things to John Q. Public!

Ever handle or shoot an Anschutz? ***, I'll wager that trigger probably made you wet your knickers if you so much as looked at it. Straight from the friggin' factory, no less!

I've got a Smith & Wesson Model 52 autoloading pistol, .38 Special Midrange, that has one of the sweetest and lightest triggers I've ever had the joy to experience. It came from the factory that way in 1961. Dangerous damned thing.

The Wichita Silhouette Pistol in my collection has the original factory trigger. It trips at a hair over 10 ounces. I've won many a silhouette match with it, and taken both whitetail deer and a few feral hogs with it. I suppose I should watch it to make certain it doesn't sneak out at night and wantonly kill somebody with that light trigger...

I have a Sharps Model 1874 Business Rifle. It's an exact duplicate of the rifle that was made and sold beginning in 1874. A Quigley-style buffalo rifle, right down to the double set triggers. Know what a double set trigger is, Mitch? First, sit down, this might get scary for you. Here's a picture, just to help the visualizion some:

You pull that rear set trigger, which then sets the front trigger's pull weight down to mere ounces. And double set triggers weren't a new invention in 1874. How dare they, people could get killed! Them damned things are dangerous, don't ya know?

Now, if you haven't got the common sense to trust yourself as a gunowner with a light, clean trigger on a firearm, then by all means, stay the hell away from them, because you cannot differentiate between what a light trigger really is, and the discipline needed to not manipulate that light trigger until you're ready to fire. (Which is something other shooters and gunowners seemed to have grasped fairly early on) But do the rest of us a favor, and stop manure spreading this hogwash about light, clean triggers on firearms being dangerous. From the viewpoint of Gawd knows how many gunowners with those very triggers, what you're spouting makes yourself look and sound very silly.

(Art, if I went overboard here, by all means, give me an elbow nudge. But somebody peed in the pool, and before I saw red, I just had to add chlorine bleach to clean up the mess...)