Strong 1911 Needed. Recommendations ???

[Jeepmark2005]

I have been involved in some advanced LE training and have been putting 100 - 200 rounds thru my Kimber Dessert Warrior per week. My pistol is not holding up. The ambi safety was the first to go. No big deal, I just replaced it with a Wilson Combat saftey and did away with the Ambi stuff. Now the slide is suffering. My breach face is starting to chip. I have only been shooting winchester white box. Nothing heavy and cleaning after every session at the range.

Long story short is if you were going to build a combat duty pistol that was going to see ALOT of use what would you build? What frame, Barrel, Trigger group, etc ?

I was thinking about using mostly Ed Brown parts with a Wilsom combat Barrel and having a VERY good gun smith fit it all.

My budget will be about $1,200 or so.

What are your suggestions to build a STRONG 1911 that will hold up to thousands of rounds. Needs to be better than combat accurate and bet your life reliable. No pretty gun crap this is 100% GO gun.

 

[rellascout]

STI Duty would be my choice. It will do everything you need it to right out of the box. It uses premium STI parts.


http://www.stiguns.com/

 

[Sarge]

Best answer that I could come up with is here

 

[liliysdad]

For 1200 or so, you will not find a better gun than the Kimber Warrior. You most definitely will not get any form of custom gun for that kind of cash.

Not to question you, but I have doubts that 100-200 rounds a week is damaging the gun you have. The ambi safety is weak by nature, so I will give you that one. However, I put more than 100-200 rounds a week through my Kimber Custom, and have no damage wahtsoever. I put roughly 100 a week through my Springfield, and again, no damage.

I wouldlove to seephotos of the "chipped breechface" that you speak of. If that truly is the issue, I would contact Kimber, as its a warranty issue.

 

[Magyar]

Jeep..., kind of curious....Why isn't it a "big deal" for the kind of money you put down?

 

[Capt. Charlie]

If you can squeak out a few more hundred, you might consider a Les Baer Custom Carry. Dealer price is $1500. These are the tightest, strongest pistols I've ever seen, and they come with all the defensive bells & whistles, including rounded edges for CC, Trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, and all the other goodies. I put 500 rounds through mine in one session with no problems.

The only down side is that if you order it directly from Baer (through an FFL holder), you're looking at 12-16 weeks before you see it. He won't even begin to mill a block of steel until he gets half down.

 

[silver-bullet]

I'm a little confused as to what would make a Les Baer "stronger" than a plain vanilla 1911 Mil-Spec. Both are constructed entirely of steel, weigh the same, and are designed around the same cartridge. Tighter? Yes. More accurate? Undoubtedly. Exquisitely assembled? They better be. But STRONGER? No, I don't believe so.

I too am puzzled by the original post. I've owned a few 1911's over the years, from both Kimber and Springfield. They were all-steel models, not aluminum-framed, and I never saw any damage in all the thousands of rounds I fired through them.

In fact, I think the 1911 has one of the best reputations for strength anywhere in the semiauto universe; and the all-steel Desert Warrior should be no exception. You might consider sending it back to Kimber, or using Shok-Buff buffers to minimize slide impact to the frame.

 

[Easy E]

Kimber needs to look at your gun...

Any decent 1911 will stand up to several hundred rounds a week, and more. I've got a mid 70s era Colt that has had many, many thousands of rounds through it. The only thing ever replaced has been the recoil spring. Kimbers, Springers, S&W, Dan Wessons, etc... Should be able to do the same.

 

[Moloch]

Holy ****, thats a load of problems with a single pistol.

Be smart and buy any of that polymer pistols, or just try a glock or a H&K to see their advantages.

 

[mathman]

How 'bout an old Remington Rand from WWII? Those seem to hold up better than any modern 1911s.

 

[M1911]

I've put thousands of rounds through my series I Kimbers. No problems here. If you're having problems with yours, I suggest you call up Kimber.

 

[Jeepmark2005]

Alot of the parts in a kimber are MIM parts. My intention was to replace these parts with forged parts made by Ed Brown. However after the first 1,000 rounds the ambi saftey lever or the right side was loose and not operating properly. I will not tolerate ANY reliability issues with my duty pistol so I replaced that part with a Wilson combat left side only safety and had my gunsmith fit it. Now after cleaning the pistol following my weekly training session I noticed a nick on the breach face. I don't know if it is a defect in the metal or what the problem is but I only have about 2,000 - 2,500 rounds thru the gun. Like I said I am only shooting Winchester white box 230 gr fmj and a little but of Duty ammo now and then. I don't have a spare pistol to enable me to return this gun. I need it for work. I thought the nick was a piece of lead stuck on the breach face but it did not come off with a steel brush and I can't feel a bump.

 

[Powderman]

Looking for a good duty 1911 pistol? Here's my two cents:

1. Start off with a good steel Colt.
2. Have a reputable gunsmith install a beavertail, blended well.
3. Get yourself a mainspring housing checkered @ 20 lpi--sharply.
4. Install some sights that you can zero precisely at 50 yards.
5. If you want to go on the cheap, you can get a Briley Spherical Bushing from Brownell's. Stout as all get out, and will last forever.

Here's mine. Pardon the photography; I'll try to include some better pictures later.

It is a Colt Enhanced, purchased brand new in 1994. Since then, it has had roughly 9,000 or so rounds through it--everything from target loads to some real +P flamethrowers. Still 1" accurate at 25 yards, and goes boom everytime. It shows its wear gracefully, and it goes everywhere I do.

 

[Handy]

One nick in the breechface is not indicative of a strength or metalurgy problem. It could have been a very minor flaw in the forging, or a burn from a blown out primer. Take a look at a well worn Glock breechface sometime - a little nick is nothing.


Kimber slides, frames and barrels are among the nicer ones out there - I would be completely unsurprised if they were forged and machined by the same people who supply Wilson or Baer.

Kimber internals are well known to be questionable, and I presume you did your homework and knew that you might have trouble with things like safety levers breaking off.



Based on what you describe, you don't have a problem that goes beyond the weak MIM parts in your gun. The breech sounds like a non-issue, since you can't even tell what you're looking at.

If you feel like spending money, replace the rest of the critical small parts with something made of barstock and you'll have an excellent pistol. STI makes a good gun, but you'd actually be downgrading from a nice forged Kimber frame to a casting. Cast frames are fine and long lasting, but forged are ultimately more durable.

 

[ranburr]

Get a confiscated gun from your department to carry and send your Kimber in for warranty work. I have a first year model Kimber that gets at least 1,000 rounds a week through it. Kimber is one of the best guns out there.

ranburr

 

[Powderman]

@Handy:

Does Kimber machine their own frames? I might be mistaken, but I seem to recall that there was a company located somewhere in New York that manufactured frames for a number of 1911 manufacturers.

For the original poster:

You might consider having a gunsmith build you a 1911 from forged Caspian parts. Bullseye shooters routinely seek out Caspian barstock frames and slides to build their competition guns, and it is very common for a Bullseye pistol to have five to ten thousand rounds per year run through it.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

If you can't feel the nick, then it isn't there. Try scraping it with a sharp knife. If there is truly a nick in the metal, you will feel it. If it's lead or buildup, it will come off. I would think your gun should hold up to 200 rounds a week with no problem.
Bill

 

[M14fan]

Kimber or Springfield Armory

Having owned and shot extensively both of these makes, I can honestly say that either should be a superb piece for the money you are talking about. Of course for 1200 bucks, a Norinco or Charles Daly could be made as reliable as a pet rock and probably look just as nice.

I noticed a comment that Kimber is known for internal parts failure. I am unfamiliar with this problem and would like to hear more. I have never had any problems with mine though I know others who have had extractors break.

 

[Handy]

Even if the nick is there, Bill, it doesn't mean that there is any problem with the durability of the slide. It could be from a number of sources.


M14, Kimbers have been particularly notorious for their Metal Injection Molded parts cracking. MIM produces hard and precise small parts, and Kimber uses the process for sears, hammers, safeties and the like. Those parts breaking (especially the safeties) are a common enough complaint about Kimbers, though MIM seems to work okay for other non-1911 makers. Kimber does their MIM in house, and one might presume that they are still working on getting it right.


The main parts are not produced that way, and are very nicely machined forgings (the occasional mis-drilled frame aside). Kimbers prices reflect the very nice slide, frame and barrel coupled with the less expensive MIM parts. The $1000 Sig GSR reflects the opposite philosophy - barstock parts in a cast frame.

Ideally, a good pricey 1911 would be all forged or barstock machined parts, and that's what you get with a Valtro or Baer, but you pay for it. Upgrading an already proven Kimber by swapping out some of those questionable MIM parts will put it closer to a Baer or Wilson than anything else.


I'm not much of a Kimber fan (due to some of this kind of stuff), but the core of the product is very good. Given this situation, I'd upgrade and be quite happy with the result.



Powderman - that is my understanding, but it is hard to confirm things like that. Baer and Wilson don't make their own slides and frames - how many "secret 1911 forges" could there possibly be? Everything else is either made by S&W, Caspian, Kahr, Colt or overseas. S&W made the series One Kimbers.

 

[auto45]

I'm not so sure Kimber uses forgings anymore. I "read" they use "barstock" for the frames and slides now, since they no longer use S&W for "material".

I don't think you'll read the word "forging" on Kimber's website anymore...could be wrong.

If there is a nick in the breechface, talk to Kimber and see what they will do.
Have it "redone" except the slide/frame and barrel or sell it and buy a higher end one.