So you want a cap and ball revolver?

D

Doc Hoy

New member
Two things

Harbor Freight sells an assortment of brushes of various sizes in a bag. Some of them are perfect for the threaded holes in the cylinder. Some work for the chambers and barrel. There is also a large size that works very well for the gunk between the arbor and the frame and in the hammer channel.

As for pinching caps, I think it is not a good idea. I think it is worthwhile to get the right size caps and if you can't find the right size caps, change the nipples.

I have only had one chain fire but I am about 90 percent certain it came from a poorly fitting cap. It loosened the arbor and I don't shoot the pistol any more.
 
G

Gatofeo

New member
I don't find any potential danger in pinching the cap into an elliptical shape. Been doing it with my fingers for years.
Though the cap may be elliptical, once placed on the nipple it returns to its round shape. However, it retains some tension from being out-of-round and clings better to the cap.
I've looked to see a gap between the nipple and cap after placing it, and never seen one. Nor have I ever experienced a multiple ignition while using caps that were pinched into an elliptical shape.
In a perfect world, you'd find caps that fit nipples perfectly, but this isn't always the case.
I experienced a multiple ignition on three separate occasions with the same .44-caliber 1851 Navy back in the early 1970s. The caps were not pinched, but placed on the nipples as-is. They fit fine, leaving no gap twixt cap and nipple, but they wouldn't stay on the nipple as tightly as the pinched variety.
I believe all multiple ignitions were caused by caps falling off unnoticed during firing, or knocked off or loosened by recoil.
I was using a .451 inch ball and either Crisco or Hodgdon Spit Ball over the seated lead ball.
In later years, after reading Elmer Keith's recommendation for the cap and ball revolver, I began using greased felt wads.
Later still, I began using a slightly larger ball: .380 inch in the .36, and .454 or .457 inch in the .44s.
Since using the larger ball, greased felt wad between ball and powder, and pinched caps I have never experienced a multiple ignition.
 
J

jolasa

New member
Back to topic.

Great notes on cleaning, but I see it this way.

I clean without disassembling the frame of my Pietta 1850 Remington. Take the cylinder out, into hot soapy water, clean the frame best I can with hot, soapy water and a Q-tip, swap the barrel with soapy water on a patch, , run a bronze brush, run some dry patches, run lightly oiled patch, one more dry patch. Dry well with hair dryer, light coat of oil, back in the storage case.

These pistols are available new for less than $200, and I figure the time I save cleaning in detail is time I can spend shooting. And then buy a new pistol a year or two down the road.

Of course I shoot for fun. If you are shooting for competition, clean VERY well.
 
Last edited:
P

pjmather

New member
pinching

I don't find any potential danger in pinching the cap into an elliptical shape. Been doing it with my fingers for years.
Though the cap may be elliptical, once placed on the nipple it returns to its round shape. However, it retains some tension from being out-of-round and clings better to the cap.
Click to expand...

thank you - I was assuming that the way to do it was to place cap on nipple and then pinch tighter . . . I'm using #11 caps as I cannot find anyone locally with #10's (must try harder) - shooting the gun is good fun though!
 
J

jolasa

New member
Just got myself a Pedersoli .451 muzzle loader, going to use it for mid-range (200, 300, 500 yards) and long-range (800, 900, 1000 yards) competition shooting. It takes # 11 caps.

On my 1858 revolver, the # 10 caps fit down snug on the nipple, i.e. the top of the nipple is sitting against the bottom of the cap.

On the Gibbs, the # 11 caps have about a 1.5 mm gap from the top of the nipple to the bottom of the cap, i.e. the cap does not seem to be fully seated to me. Is this a problem if the cap is not fully down on the nipple. Should I file or sand the nipple diameter so that the cap sits down lower on the nipple? Or just leave it like it is.

Jon
 
M

mykeal

New member
It is a problem, although not a serious one. It will lead to failures to fire - the hammer will drive the cap down on the nipple but not provide enough impact (shock) to set off the explosive. A second strike by the hammer will set off the cap as it will now be properly seated on the nipple. The problem can be corrected by filing the nipple as you have noted. Or, you can get bigger (or more likely, shorter) caps.
 
M

MEATSAW

New member
First off, thanks to you all for the great information in this thread. I just became a proud owner of a 1860 Army and since this is all new to me. One question in regards to rust prevention: I got my gun used and to be honest it wasnt very well taken care of. There is rust in the cylinder chambers and in the barrel. Also some minor rusting on the barrel assembly as well. As such I am pretty worried about making sure it doesn't get any worse. I have gotten as much rust and gunk off as possible with petro-based cleaners. But now that I am ready to begin shooting it I have cleaned it thoroughly with dish soap and hot water (all traces of petro-based stuff is gone). I have Crisco and canola oil available to me to use.

Is the natural oils like Crisco and canola oil going to prevent rust in between times when I am shooting? I hear mumbling that its not so good in that department but would like to hear from you guys that know.

Also would you advise completely breaking down the revolver (including the frame, grip, and trigger assemblies) and cleaning it after every outing? Or just the barrel, cylinder, and frame with occasional complete clean?

Thanks.
 
M

mykeal

New member
It's probably best to start a new thread with your questions as you will get wider distribution; many folks won't see your posting in an old thread of general interest that they've already read a number of times. One of the great advantages of internet forums is the wide variety of experience available - you don't want to cheat yourself of that.

Vegetable oils will provide adequate rust prevention and are often used for short term storage. They have the down side of becoming rancid over long periods, however. I personally use Birchwood Casey's Barricade; there are many similar products available. Most are mineral oil based and do not have the issues associated with petroleum based products.

Many folks do a complete teardown and cleaning after every shooting session; regular cleaning and maintenance is not too great a price to keep fine tools working well. However, in my opinion it's not absolutely necessary. The action parts inside the frame are not subject to combustion chamber temperatures and thus do not accumulate the more corrosive black powder fouling compounds. They do require occasional cleaning, however, as dust and powder residue do build up inside. I do a complete teardown about every 3 to 5 uses; guns that rarely get used get a semi-annual complete cleaning regardless of usage.
 
Last edited:
J

jolasa

New member
Recommended by Mike Venturino in his book "Black Powder Cartridge Reloading Primer" -about cartridges obviously, but carries over to cap and ball:

Cleaning right after shooting:
Prestone Advanced Formula Antifreeze + distilled water (50:50)

Final cleaning before putting away until next shooting:
NAPA auto transmission fluid (great rust protection, better than any gun oil)
 
Last edited:
G

Gatofeo

New member
What kind of rust preventative you need will probably depend upon the humidity in which you live, and how the gun is stored.
I live in the remote Utah desert. Humidity can be high at times, but on the whole it's low.
So, I use olive oil to protect my black powder arms. It's all that's needed.
My guns are stored in a gun safe, in the house, away from moisture-attracting dirt and dust, and extreme temperature swings.
And I never store my guns in a case, box or plastic bag. Air circulates inside the safe, keeping moisture from being trapped.
A glass of ice water soon acquires droplets on the exterior of the glass, through condensation.
Same thing can happen to a gun left in a cold vehicle, then brought into a warm house: tiny droplets of moisture condense on the surface, promoting rust.
For me, olive oil works fine. If your guns are exposed to humidity or temperature swings, you may need something more protective. But I think you'll find that olive oil, and checking the gun for rust every other week or month (depending on rust-promoting conditions) will keep it rust-free.
 
G

Gator Weiss

New member
Olive Oil?

Olive Oil may have higher levels of acid. You are dealing with oil extracted from plant material. Often there will be acids. Have to be just a little careful because olive oil differs from batch to batch, year to year, and the first pressing will have the most acid.

CANOLA OIL = Canadian Oil Low Acid

It is made from rapeseed, pressed into cakes and then steamed. It is used as a steam cylinder anti-seize oil. It is used as an extreme pressure lubricant. What you find in the grocery store works just fine on guns.

Save your olive oil for your salad.

As old as olive oil is, and as long as it has been used on the planet, there is no doubt that it probably has been used on knives, swords, guns, and mechanical apparatus, and it probably works. I can see why you experimented with it.
 
G

Gator Weiss

New member
Soak the cylinder ?

The gentleman with the soiled cylinder might try soaking it.

I also found that by using oil to begin the cleaning process with, the tough stuff seems to loosen in the oil, and then it comes off better when the dishwater hits it. I dont know why this is. But it seems to work.

I have a stainless 1858 Rem, and it gets some weird foul around the nipples that is a real bitch to clean off. I set the cylinder in a little bit of oil - nipple side down - and I let it sit. Later, when I scrub, the foul comes off easier. I am using canola kitchen oil. I use an old vienna sausage can to soak my cylinder in. You still have to scrub, but the job seems much easier after the soaking.
 
G

Gator Weiss

New member
Repeatedly dis-assembly and re-assembly wears the weapon?

Some of the older Army publications indicate repeatedly dis-assembly and re-assembly cause unnecessary wear and tear on the weapon. This is probably true to some degree and true, depending on the exact mechanical nature of the thing that is taken apart and put back together again.

The gentleman that says he does his complete take down only occasionally may have the right thing going on here. But you have to find a way to keep the weapon preserved in-between times with either oiling or wiping or both.

I have immersed locks and that sort of thing in oil and dishwater and oil again without taking them apart, and it has worked well enough for light soiling.

Many of the black powder guns are soft steel, and screw and bolt heads will show signs of wear, as will threads if they are disturbed too often, or even disturbed with a tool that doesnt quite fit; such as a screw driver of the wrong size, or using pliers when you should be using something else, etc, etc.

I would imagine good tools, and only occasional deep dis-assembly would be the best idea, with adequate oils at all times.

The Hawken is really a great system, because it comes apart easy, and even removing the lock is the easiest thing in the world. Few fasteners and few contact points. Cleaning my Hawken is a piece of cake compared to some of my other guns.
 
6

62coltnavy

New member
I've been using a Kleen Bore silicon cloth on the exterior surfaces and Hoppe's gun oil in the chambers (applied lightly with a cue tip). I haven't had any rust issues
 
4

45long

New member
A couple notes I didn't see mentioned yet . Maybe they were and I missed it .

1. When firing a C&B revolver hold the muzzle straight up when cocking for the next round. You will find that the spent caps are less likely to jam the gun. This was the method taught by the military in the mid 1800s and it works well.

2.When target practicing with a front stuffer , after a few rounds you will notice the fouling making it harder to seat the ball. Do what the old timers did, keep a patch in your mouth soaked with spit and and run it up and down the bore a few times with the cleaning jag. Nothing mentioned so far cuts blackpowder fouling in a pinch like saliva. And you always have it with you where ever you go.

Been hooked on Black Powder for 40 years.

I know this is an old thread but thought anyone needing info would appeciate this
 
M

mykeal

New member
For the record, there are some on this forum who maintain that raising the muzzle beyond the bullet impact area is a safety violation. Some ranges do not allow that practice.
 
H

Hawg

New member
It's not necessary to raise it straight up, a few inches is all it takes and a little tilt to the right helps too.
 
Z

zullo74

Moderator
2.When target practicing with a front stuffer , after a few rounds you will notice the fouling making it harder to seat the ball. Do what the old timers did, keep a patch in your mouth soaked with spit and and run it up and down the bore a few times with the cleaning jag. Nothing mentioned so far cuts blackpowder fouling in a pinch like saliva. And you always have it with you where ever you go.
Click to expand...
I used to do it that way, but couldn't get used to the flavor BP fouling after returning the patch to my mouth! :eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top