Sig X5 vs S&W 952 vs CZ-75 TS

[SoonerBJJ]

I think I've narrowed my next purchase down to these 3 models. I want a superior quality 9mm for target shooting and possibly IDPA/IPSC competition. I prefer something that is less commonly seen and that could retain some value in the future (not that I plan on selling... but one never knows).

I've seen the virtues of all 3 praised here and elsewhere, but does anyone have first hand experience with any 2 or 3 of these? How do they compare in balance, handling and shooting? Each has a tuned SA trigger but how do the triggers compare? These are very subjective experiences but I'm always interested to hear what others think.

The CZ-75 Tactical Sport can be found NIB for about $1K. Both the S&W and X5 are in the $1400-1600 range. So the prices are pretty similiar.

 

[918v]

The 952 is, by leaps and bounds, the best handgun of the three.

The X-5 has sloppy slide-to-frame fit, no better than a regular P226, and the CZ barrel isn't tightly fitted. The CZ exterior finish is rough also. The trigger has alot of creep.

Don't buy the CZ or the X-5 until you have an opportunity to handpick.

 

[sindiesel666]

918v The 952 is, by leaps and bounds, the best handgun of the three.

The X-5 has sloppy slide-to-frame fit, no better than a regular P226, and the CZ barrel isn't tightly fitted. The CZ exterior finish is rough also. The trigger has alot of creep.

Don't buy the CZ or the X-5 until you have an opportunity to handpick.

dude, I'd hate to say it, but that's a bunch on BS. CZ TS has got to have one of the best triggers on a production handgun period. It's adjustable for both pretravel and overtravel...breaks between 1.7-1.9 pounds...single action only of course...
Gun is nice and heavy (built on a beefed up platform, like 97B), for reduced recoil, nice sights, 17 or 20 round mags. What's not to like??
Anyone would be silly not to at least handle one, if not buy outright...And I've seen them on gunsamerica.com going for under 900 bucks. I shoot IPSC and wanna step up from my Glock 34 to this bad boy, in .40 cal though.

I really must whole-heartedly disagree here with the previous poster, sorry.....

 

[918v]

I handled one and the trigger was crappy. It was nowhere near 2 lbs.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

How are the grips on the 952? Looks like it might be a little better with a Hogue with finger grooves, but I'm not sure they make one to fit and the wood sure is pretty.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

I have to admit the price of the CZ is attractive. I've never felt the trigger but the only complaints I've heard are about it being plastic. There are metal replacements available.

 

[sindiesel666]

Well, good folks on czforum.com would beg to differ on that one. 99% of them that shoot TS speak highly of the trigger, even before break-in period...after the break-in is it's like the proverbial glass rod!!!!

 

[HSMITH]

I would like to take issue with the slide to frame fit on the X-five, it is as good as any custom gun out there. Yes, I said custom gun. It is absolutely as tight as you can get a stainless gun and have it function. I have only examined 3 though, maybe I saw the cream of the crop.

The X-5 you are looking at for $1500 is not in the class of the 952 and the TS though, it is a very watered down version of the original X-Five that will be around $2500 IF you can find one.

Of the two left the TS is a better buy, as good a gun and overall will make a better competition gun. Good magazines at a reasonable cost alone make a big dent for the TS over the 952.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

Don't get me wrong. They seem to love everything about the trigger... except the fact that it's plastic. Doesn't seem to affect it's function. It's just knowing it's plastic that seems to bother some.

 

[918v]

I would like to take issue with the slide to frame fit on the X-five, it is as good as any custom gun out there. Yes, I said custom gun. It is absolutely as tight as you can get a stainless gun and have it function. I have only examined 3 though, maybe I saw the cream of the crop.

No it isn't. It is sloppy. I Have a P226 ST, and a P226 Sport Stock. The ST has about .011" side to side play when partially out of battery, the Sport has none. My 952 has none. The three X-5's I tried all had similar slack to my ST.

The P-210 I played with had none.

My Les Baer has none.

My Smith PC5906 has none.

You must not know what to look for. Pull the slide back about half an inch, then try to wiggle it. Properly assembled match guns won't have any play, stainless or carbon steel- it don't matter.

 

[makarov]

Isn't the 952 a single stack 9mm? If you are really thinking of shooting IDPA or IPSC check the rules and which category you would be in. I'm not sure that you would be competitive with a gun that only holds 7 or 8 rounds. For IDPA you are allowed 10+1 I believe.

That said I am a huge fan of CZ's. If you want something competitive but won't break the bank, the CZ-85 Combat has adjustable sights and a pretty good trigger (no firing pin safety like the old pre-B 75's) I have been very happy with mine and it is about $500 or so. You could have a single action trigger installed and a good trigger job and still be way ahead.

One of the last Guns and Ammo mags had an article where the guy loaded a 952 in a Ransom rest and shot groups with various handloads. I was NOT impressed with his groups. If you read the article closely he even shot them at 25 or 30 yards, not at 50, and they were pretty big groups. I've thought about trying to find a 952 or 52, but would hope that they shot better than that.

You might also look at a 1911 pattern gun in 9mm, but again you would be at a disadvantage shooting IDPA. Lots of guys shooting Glock 17's and 34's for that matter.... But I like my CZ a lot...

 

[SoonerBJJ]

makarov- I would be interested in seeing that Ransom testing of the 952. I searched the archives of G&A and several other mags and couldn't find anything on the 952. Are you sure it was the 952? I've never seen anyone put it through a Ransom but everything else I've heard has been uniformly fantastic about it's inherent accuracy.

The CZ definitely is attractive. The 75 can be had with single action and the TS is single action.

 

[HSMITH]

918, evidently you don't know what you are looking for. You cannot take stainless steel to zero clearance the way you can carbon steel, it DOES matter. Even the finest stainless steels made today will gall at zero clearance.

The ONLY place slide fit makes one bit of difference is in lockup, and the X-Fives I have seen were snug all the way through with almost no play at all anywhere in the cycle, .003" at most in any direction at any point.

 

[918v]

Then my 952, PC5906, and Sport Stock must be defective from the factory!

Don't you think that .011" side to side play is excessive? Why is it that Sig puts out guns with such a wide variance?

 

[JoeHatley]

SoonerBJJ,

The 952 is a great shooter.

If you can live with 9 or ten rounds, that's the way to go. If you need more rounds, the double stack X-5 is a nice gun, kinda pricey. If cost will be a driving factor, the CZ is where you want to look.

Good Luck...

Joe

 

[sindiesel666]

I honestly think, even in regards to price, that TS is the logical choice. This thing is made to go fast specifically for IPSC. I'm partial to CZs, I'm most likely buying one myself when I come back from my deployment. Saving up right now.

Angus can get you a steel trigger, and JackAsh makes custom guide rods. So you can swap out those plastic parts if they bother you. But this gun is pure competition, nothing less, nothing more.

Why would I ever spend 1500 bucks on and STI/SVI, when i get the same or better from a 900$ CZ????

 

[makarov]

April 2006 Issue. PG 42 - "Make Mine a Nine"

He loads a bunch of different 9mm handloads and tests them in a 952 -- you have to read the article carefully to see that he is shooting at 30 yards and not 50.

Average group size was probably 3 inches. The smallest was pretty good at 1.5, but the worst was 5 inches. Most were 2.5 to 3.5 inches with handloads. Factory ammo was consistent at 3 to 4.5 inches.

All in all I expected it to do better and was pretty surprised considering it was shot from a Ransom rest.

 

[HSMITH]

I suppose you mounted the gun in a vise and measured .011" with a dial indicator? New gun, right out of the rack?

Next time you head down to the store see if they will let you field strip an X-5, and look closely at how it locks up. It ISN'T exactly the same as your SS, close but not exact. Put some indicators on it or at least some feeler gauges. If you look at a 'field' model like the one in the pic I would be very curious to hear what you find. The only X-Fives I have had apart have been X-Five Competition models.

 

[918v]

Average group size was probably 3 inches. The smallest was pretty good at 1.5, but the worst was 5 inches. Most were 2.5 to 3.5 inches with handloads. Factory ammo was consistent at 3 to 4.5 inches.

Lemon? Mine shoots 1" at 25 yards with my handloads off sandbags. Or maybe his gun was loose in the RR inserts. The 952-2 has a working grip safety and that may have played a role in the poor accuracy.

If you look at a 'field' model like the one in the pic I would be very curious to hear what you find. The only X-Fives I have had apart have been X-Five Competition models.

The guns I examined were tight in battery, but not $1500 tight out of battery. Nearly all of the slack was up front. The back end was nice. The fit was acceptable, but not for that grade of weapon. I'll buy one if I can find one tight enough, but that will require some looking.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

Makarov- Are you sure that's Guns and Ammo? I haven't seen this issue yet but I'm not finding this in the online table of contents. Any chance it's another mag?