Should I allow Concealed Weapons Holders to Carry in my store??

[StrongSideArmsInc]

Allright, I have been discussing this in another thread about a gun shop that had a sign posted, "No loaded weapons in the store."

Of course, the thread went on to debate and discuss peoples objections and thoughts on what they were feeling about the rule. The thread came close to changing my mind as to allow, lawfull CWP holders the right to carry on my store. So here are the facts, and we will have a vote on TFL. The vote outcome will infact become a standard which I will follow, despite the outcome.

I own a Retail Store Front Gun Shop. I currently DO NOT allow loaded firearms in the shop from anyone, except LEO. My reasons for doing this is after having two ADS in the shop, by people that were "showing off" there CWP pistols to others.

Should I change the signs to allow Legal CWP holders to carry their weapons in the store. Also, what should the sign read.

Thanks to all, and please understand all the considerations from my standpoint, taking into account the great liability that I inccur if someones in hurt or killed in my shop.

 

[egor20]

Sign

"If carrying a weapon under CWP, the weapon MUST remain in holster and out of sight."

"If you need work on a CWP handgun, You MUST bring the weapon in unloaded and the holster separately"


All other weapons are to be cased and unloaded.

Thank You.​

 

[mc223]

I believe that I would feel better with a shop full of legally carrying private citizens than 1 illegally carrying bad guy.

 

[Wildalaska]

My reasons for doing this is after having two ADS in the shop, by people that were "showing off" there CWP pistols to others.

Those guys shouldnt have CWps should they


WildweusethesignabovementionedatleastavariationthereofAlaska ™©2002-2011

 

[Glenn Dee]

Strongside

Firstly.... where is your store located?

If you have signage, communicating your rule that there will be no carrying of loaded weapons within the store, I think you would be within your right. As this is a store rule, and up to you to enforce you can be judicious. Allow people you now, and trust to be armed in the store, while as a general rule others would be unloaded. Just because a person has a CCW dont always make him a good guy. Nor does it make him someone who always handles firearms safely. If the rule is in place you get to pick and choose who is loaded in the store.

 

[Cheapshooter]

"If carrying a weapon under CWP, the weapon MUST remain in holster and out of sight."

"If you need work on a CWP handgun, You MUST bring the weapon in unloaded and the holster separately"


All other weapons are to be cased and unloaded.

Thank You.

+1

Actually a simpler sign in LGS near me.

All firearms must be unloaded and cased
CCW firearms must be holstered at all times.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

So let me get this straight. Based on what I have learned of your business from some very positive reviews on the internet, you both sell guns and teach CWP classes, apparently because you want to help people with their abilities to defend themselves. Is that right? Isn't that then a bit hypocritical to then not let CWP holders carry (as per law) in your store? You want to help them with self defense, but will not allow for it in your store. Interesting.

The hypocrisy sort of reminds me of gun ranges that will teach you defensive shoot techniques, but then aside from slow fire off of or above the bench, pretty much nothing you learned in their class is actually allowed at the facility outside of a class.

My reasons for doing this is after having two ADS in the shop, by people that were "showing off" there CWP pistols to others.

Wild is right. They should not have their permits. I certainly hope you called the cops on them for the discharges.

 

[DRBoyle]

Sounds like a business decision and the people suggesting apologetic signs have the right idea. It is after all a business decision but suggesting that the firearm might have to be left in a vehicle/home might not be the best way to promote gun rights.

0.02

 

[TailGator]

My reasons for doing this is after having two ADS in the shop, by people that were "showing off" there CWP pistols to others.
Those guys shouldnt have CWps should they

Fully agree, WA, but two problems:

(1) It ain't up to us.

(2) We find out how dumb they are AFTER the ND.

Isn't that then a bit hypocritical to then not let CWP holders carry (as per law) in your store?

He is convinced - that's why he is asking how to word a sign that still helps keep people safe. I imagine it can be pretty difficult to ensure good safety practices in a gun shop. I appreciate store owners who give it some thought - I don't really want to be around a bunch of yahoos recklessly waiving loaded guns around any more than I want my SD rights restricted.

 

[Kreyzhorse]

My reasons for doing this is after having two ADS in the shop, by people that were "showing off" there CWP pistols to others.

Two negligent discharges? I'm not sure I'd change my sign. If I did however it would read:

"If carrying a weapon under CWP, the weapon MUST remain in holster and out of sight."

"If you need work on a CWP handgun, You MUST bring the weapon in unloaded and the holster separately"


All other weapons are to be cased and unloaded.

Thank You.

 

[Caboclo]

You're definitely going to lose business of you don't allow your customers to carry. With that said, I understand your point about liability; you're the only one who can decide how much liability you can handle, and how much business you're willing to lose to reduce your risk. I would second the motion for a sign as recommended above, but I would delete the phrase "out of sight". Nothing wrong with open carry. At the end of the day, however, I'm guessing you'll find that the point is moot: the kind of yahoos who wave their guns around in public usually can't read. You'll still have the occasional ND. Go ahead and put up the sign as a legal CYA, and then install a large number of security cameras covering every inch of the store. Be sure to have a camera clearly showing the sign on the front door, so Mr. Yahoo doesn't claim in court that it was missing that day.

 

[GoOfY-FoOt]

Being a typical "gun nut" and avid gun rights advocate, I must say that I am on the fence about this one.

First and foremost, I am an employee of said store, and while I was not present for either AD, I have a constant reminder of one of those, thanks to a nice hole torn through the cabinet that we keep our 4473's in. ALso, it is hard not to admit, that had that stack of legislated paper products not taken the brunt of that particular round, the outcome could have been worse.

Now, as an advocate, I am all for legal carry, and personally refrain from patronizing places that choose to deny my rights and subsequently redirect my business.

But, as an employee of a GS, getting constantly swept, and having to try and recall if I had seen the particular weapon get cleared or not, especially when we are busy, and my attention hasn't been constant, well it's just un-nerving, at times.

Truth be told, most of our customers are conscious of their actions, when handling a firearm in the shop, and I don't have a problem with a permit holder carrying, while patronizing our establishment.

Just keep it holstered, and warn us in advance, if for some reason you HAVE to take it out and ALWAYS clear it, safely and immediately.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Actually a simpler sign in LGS near me.

All firearms must be unloaded and cased
CCW firearms must be holstered at all times.

You realize, of course, that this sign doesn't make any sense as it is full of conflicting commands. Since all firearms must be unloaded and cased and since my CCW must be holstered, then according to the sign, my CCW must be unloaded and the holster and the whole rig inside of a case (as I don't know of any gun cases that will fit inside of a holster). Given that virtually all gun cases are opaque, the gun is concealed, but pretty much useless for self defense, wouldn't you say?

 

[longlane]

Businesses routinely lose my business...

For posting no concealed weapons signs. I simply don't feel safe in these places. It's the equivalent of posting a come rob me and my customers placard.

 

[Ditto_95]

I commend you on being openminded enough to ask peoples opinions.

Perhaps a legal and financial penalty for a ND could be used as an additional deterrent. State what that would be on the sign.
I would think unlawful discharge would be a criminal offense.
Paying for what was damaged would also be a requirement.

I understand that minimizing the risk is what you are after. Turning away customers for any reason is also a risk.

 

[Molly429]

My sons introduced me to their favorite gun store and proprietorship. A large sign on the door at eye level states

: "Upon entering this shop, immediately inform employees if you are armed. Do not unholster your weapon without consent or knowledge of employee".

 

[TailGator]

"Upon entering this shop, immediately inform employees if you are armed. Do not unholster your weapon without consent or knowledge of employee"

That is not bad. I like the aspect of notifying employees. Such a requirement could be a problem if the place was busy and all the employees were tied up, though. I was thinking something like, "If you are licensed for concealed carry, please keep all loaded weapons holstered. If you expect to need to unholster your firearm for any reason, please unload and present your firearm cased and/or with the action open."

 

[Glenn Dee]

Imagine the scenario where there are several (4) customers, some (3) are carrying concieled. Then add ohhh two or three employee's also carrying but in the open. In walks a local criminal moron, walks up to the counter and pulls his "SNS" (Saturday nite special) and announces a hold up pointing the sns at an employee.

The above scenario is the basic reason people employed in gun shops open carry.

As the employee under the gun would you want to depend on the fire discipline, and the marksmanship of three people you dont know? Just because a person has a CCW dont make them trained, practiced, disciplined, or even intelligent enough to let the store employee's handle the situation. It also might even be confusing as to weather a customer is involved on the bad guy side.

Every Gun store I frequent. The owner and employee's have something of a disaster plan. None of them include random customers getting involved. As customers become known, and friendships blossom... You can relax the rule for some people. After all it's your rule.

There should be absoloutly no doubt that you support the local shooting, and gun toting community as you have invested in a business dedicated to their needs. While they are in your store you have some reponsibility for their safety. The Store IMO should always be given much the same consideration as a cold line. No one is insulted when a range officer orders everyone to unload, and make safe their firearms.

I pretty much carry at least one firearm at all times. However I dont mind disarming when going into a gun shop. Mainly because I know the employee's will protect me from harm as best they can.

Glenn

 

[GoOfY-FoOt]

Food for thought, and well put, Glenn.

 

[kraigwy]

I like the sign in one of the parts stores in town.

WOULD BE ROBBERS

WARNING

MOST OF OUR CUSTOMERS AND ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES ARE ARMED.