Should Backpackers Carry Handguns - A Backpacker Magazine "Question of the Month."

[Mike in VA]

Pretty clear that none of the above dweebs have ever faced a PO'ed bear, just mouthing what the bliss-ninnies want to believe.

Do they even understand that bears don't read, let alone believe, the "Do not feed the bears" signs any more than the deer use the "Deer Crossing" signs (I once heard a woman harrangue a ranger because a deer wandered in front of her car in an unposted area . . . ? )

Thouhg I beleive that bear encounters can be sorta managed up to a point, if you go into bear country unprepared, well, as stated earlier, natural selection in action (I loved that Roy Rogers commercial where teh bears saat around the campfire commenting that the campers tasted "just like chicken!"

 

[Sergeant Bob]

Montana Grizzly Bear Alert:

In light of the rising frequency of human/grizzly bear conflicts, the
Montana Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters, and
fishermen to take extra precautions and keep alert of bears while in the
field. "We advise that outdoorsmen wear noisy little bells on their
clothing so as not to startle bears that aren't expecting them. We also
advise outdoorsmen to carry pepper spray with them in case of an encounter
with a bear." It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear
activity. Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between black bear
and grizzly bear excrement: Black bear excrement is smaller and contains
lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear excrement has little bells
in it and smells like pepper.

 

[swifter...]

In the 60's, 70's, & 80's I did a lot of backpacking all over CA.
Concurrently, I was employed in a Forensic Mental Health Facility that treated, among other things, Mentally Disordered Sex Offenders. This included some extremely predatory rapists. Almost to a man, they loved the outdoors, backpacking, and the solitary places.

I packed all the time. I rarely worried about bears, etc., but humans? Nastiest critters out there. I was personally acquainted with some of the worst...

A decade or so ago, Backpacker had this question - sans email & internet - and I responded in some detail.

When the article finally came out, it was a "never carry a gun, God won't love you and it isn't necessary bit of mindless crap:barf: ...

Email NOT sent, they only use this to generate controversy, they are not interested in other opinions .

Besides, I quit debating idiots years ago. Too much like fighting a hog by getting on your hands and knees in the mud & biting it on the ass. The hog enjoys this sort of thing...

Tom

 

[MeekAndMild]

I wonder if these folks could be held liable for wrongfully disseminating dangerous info? If they talk some young suceptible hiker out of carrying and that person is later found to be dismemberbered and mutillated I wondered if the kinfolk could sue their green @sses off for selling them a load of tripe?

 

[pax]

Look at it this way.. not EVERYONE in your group needs to pack iron, and if it bothers you I'll keep it out of sight. Simple enough?

A buddy of mine tells a story about how he and a friend were hiking in bear country one weekend. Buddy had stored his gun so it would be easily accessible -- in his friend's backpack, who was going to walk ahead of him.

They did encounter a bear, which ran across the trail right in between the two of them.

"The best-laid plans of mice and men..."

***

As for the New Age argument against carrying a gun ("I'm creating my own reality ... I don't want to draw negative energy..."), see The Tao of Gun at http://www.starseedcreations.com/words/rkba/tao_of_gun.html It's an excellent little resource for dealing with folks who have this worldview.

pax

 

[Lavan]

Backpackers should NOT carry.

Think of the bears who would have nothing to eat.
Think of the rapists who would have no one to.......uh...

Carry ketchup and condoms.
Those are the only things a considerate victim would consider.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Carry a wire brush for hair and DNA sampling

 

[Ewok_Guy]

I think any and all backpackers should carry handguns. Whether your with a group, by yourself, or maybe with just one other person.

 

[pax]

*snerkle*

Oleg gets first prize for funniest post.

pax

 

[Liberty Ship]

Actual Case

Forget handguns. Go with high capacity assault (homeland defense) rifles!


Exercising the Right
by Robert W. Lee

Shooting Back
Bryan Rigsby, a project manager in the information technology department of an Atlanta-based life insurance company, recalls an incident in which he was forced to shoot a man to death, describing it as "the most horrific thing I've ever had to do." But, he adds, "I can imagine a more horrible scene — dying, disarmed and defenseless, at the hands of that same man when he came to kill me."

In a letter posted on the Atlanta Journal-Constitution website in late May, Rigsby states that he purchased his gun, a Ruger Mini-14 semiautomatic rifle, a couple of years prior to the incident. "I had been looking for a gun to buy but was motivated to buy this one by the anti-gun movement. I also bought a couple of 30-round magazines for it. I wanted to get them before the government told me I couldn't."

In November 1990, Rigsby and a friend, Tom, went to a remote public shooting range to camp overnight and shoot targets the next day. Late that night, two men who had earlier visited the campsite returned. "As they crept through the woods toward us, I retrieved my Mini-14, and Tom his .45 semiautomatic pistol," Rigsby remembers:

Tom saw the first man pointing a shotgun in my direction. Afraid for me, he asked the man why he had come back with a gun. The man shifted his aim to Tom and replied, "I'm going to kill you."

Tom twice told the man to put the gun down. But he didn't. He pulled the trigger and shot Tom.

I centered the front sight of my rifle on the man's chest and shot twice, then fired several more times at the second attacker. My friend, although wounded in the thigh, also fired.

The shootout lasted only a few seconds. Hunters in a nearby camp called the police and rescue units.

The assailant who had shot Tom died at the scene. The other, seriously wounded, admitted that they had returned to rob their supposed victims. "The police were sure that we would also have been murdered," Rigsby notes, since the men "had introduced themselves to us on their first visit, so we knew their real names. The truck had their employer's name on the side. They weren't going to leave any witnesses."

Rigsby is convinced that "if Tom and I had not been able to fire multiple rounds quickly enough to stop the attack, I do not believe we would have survived." It is often said, he reflects, "that if it saves just one life, we should ban or restrict assault weapons and other firearms. My life was saved because I had one."

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/12-06-99/vo15no25_gun.htm

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/12-06-99/vo15no25_gun.htm

 

[Cal4D4]

http://www.wcnet.org/~mkessen/bear.htm

 

[40ozflatfoot]

Even more fun is the computer war image on the parent directory:

http://www.wcnet.org/~mkessen/

Scroll down to the bottom.

 

[Russ Howard]

Editor,

Of course backpackers should carry. Dr. Lott of the American Enterprise Institute has shown that violent crime drops in states with "shall issue" carry. Multiple-victim public shootings drop by over 80%. Problem is, there are still "gun free" zones, like schools, national parks, and airlines, where the government guarantees the safety of criminals by leaving their victims defenseless. Gun writer David Codrea has labeled these "Harris-Klebold Empowerment Zones", after the Columbine murderers. It's no accident the 9/11 terrorists were able to hijack airliners with boxcutters, since barely a month before 9/11, George Bush reversed a longstanding policy and prohibited pilot carry, guaranteeing that all American airliners were safe targets on 9/11.

It's a cruel world. To paraphrase John Wayne in The Sands of Iwo Jima, "Life is tough; it's even tougher if you're stupid." Like all predators, violent criminals prefer defenseless victims. Anyone too stupid to know that is more likely to be killed by one. It's really a form of natural selection. Authority worshippers who comply with government-mandated defenselessness give the universe grounds for culling their sheep genes out of the pool. If they alone were affected, it wouldn't be so bad. Unfortunately, by making the world safer for violent criminals, they facilitate violent crime against society as a whole. Like permissive parents who raise monster kids. We all suffer; they just usually suffer more. Or people who feed the bears. Once in a while they get eaten, which is probably a good thing, but it creates a nuisance for everyone else.

The government insists national parks be another Harris-Klebold Empowerment Zone. So pack heat anyway. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. And while you're at it, be sure to take jury duty every chance you get so you can be one of those 12 and acquit people who "violate" unconstitutional gun laws.

Russ Howard
Former NRA Director, 1995-97
www.keepandbeararms.com/howard

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

I don't have the figures here, but I'll bet that the vast majority of backpackers never carry firearms. I've backpacked all over the Sierras and never felt a need to pack. Attacks, by wild animals or by humans, are extremely rare. Bears? I saw one this last Thursday. It ran away as soon as my crew came around the corner.

Roller blading or playing baseball is probably more dangerous.

This conversation is not much different than those of the ignorant who imagine all sorts of dangers in gun ownership. Hysteria based on a few sensational cases hyped by the media.

You want to pack in the woods? Fine. Enjoy yourself, be safe, get a little target practice in in scenic surroundings. I used to mostly shoot at log landings myself. But spare me the Dan'l Boone fantasies.

 

['01 GSR]

I've backpacked all over the Sierras and never felt a need to pack. Attacks, by wild animals or by humans, are extremely rare. Bears? I saw one this last Thursday. It ran away as soon as my crew came around the corner.

Well, good for you. I do believe most black bears would run away, but not all. I doubt a Grizzly would; it might leave for lack of interest, but not fear.

A handgun is a poor choice to deal with anything but the most dangerous predator: humans. Thus, only a fool would take abear on unnecessarily.

I worry far more about humans than any bear. I'd even try using pepperspray on a bear before engaging in a "Daniel Boone" fantasy, if but that I'd have regrets over shooting a bear. I'd have little regret about doing the same for a human, since they INTENDED me harm, unlike a wild animal

Now to my question: why do you own a gun at all?

Obviously, most of us will never need to defend ourselves. However, most of us like the security that is inherent in possessing the means of self-defense.

Is it that being out in "God's country" makes you feel safer than normal? I don't know why, since all the police protection that we might have at least some expectation of receiving is notably absent out in the boonies. Perhaps all that bliss, along with the granola induced hyperglycemia is impairing your judgement.

The frequency of encounters may go down in the middle of BFE, but the intensity goes up.

May your karmic energies all be positive and your aura harmonious.

 

[DLL]

Rented a dangerous animals nature video this weekend. One of the encounters was a couple of photographers filming a mother bear and her two cubs. Camera men were at least 150 yards away and the momma bear spotted them anyways.

She charged and got about half way and one of the guys fired what sounded like a rifle. The bullet hit about 10 feet from the bear and she stopped, blinked her eyes a few times and then decided she didn't want to fight anymore. It's easy to imagine the same encounter if they had OC spray instead of a gun.

 

[DonP]

Bears, guns and common sense

I've been paddling and hiking in "bear country" since I was 16 (39 years ago to be exact). That includes working a couple of summers for an outfitter partaging other people stuff from lake to lake. I have carried since I was 20. At first it was just a .22 for plinking. Now I still carry a .22 Buckmark Camper in my pack and a Mil Spec .45 in a waterproof case while we paddle and in the tent at night. I have never needed it, but it's nice to know it's there.

In my humble real world experience, Brown bears, grizzlies, don't run from anything unless they damn well feel like it Usually to get a little meat tenderizer for those chewy L.L. Bean boots.).

Black bears will run from a pot and pan serenade or a plain old firecracker or two 97 times out of a 100. The other three you better have a "plan B" because you can have a rogue black bear. The problem is most campers have been led to believe that Black Bears are harmless or don't pay any attention to the warnings on dealing with them. (After all they bought all their high tech gear at REI for $500 plus per sleeping bag, so they must be smart, right?)

About every three or four years a black bear takes out a camper that didn't stow their food properly or just had the bad luck to be in the wrong place with the wrong bear at the wrong time. You don't hear about it for the same reasons you don't hear the truth about crime at Universities. The folks in charge would rather you not know about it.

Carry if you want for the plinking or for defense, just like anywhere else.

Just MHO.

Don P.

 

['01 GSR]

Black bears will run from a pot and pan serenade or a plain old firecracker or two 97 times out of a 100. The other three you better have a "plan B" because you can have a rogue black bear. The problem is most campers have been led to believe that Black Bears are harmless or don't pay any attention to the warnings on dealing with them.

A single rogue black bear, at a provincial park in BC, managed to take out around 3 visitors or so and mauled a few more before being shot, I think by a park visitor w/ a rifle.

I don't have the specifics, but I'm sure it will be rebroadcast on Discover one of these days.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

Well, good for you. I do believe most black bears would run away, but not all. I doubt a Grizzly would; it might leave for lack of interest, but not fear.

I've never hiked in Griz country. If and when I do, I'll probably carry everything but the buckskin and the coonskin hat.

There are risks in everything we do. carrying involves taking risks as does not carrying. I just see the risk of encountering trouble in the back country so slight that it's not worth the effort. Now, dispersed drive-in campgrounds in the National Forest and BLM land are another matter. The vast majority of criminals will never get far from a road.

Now to my question: why do you own a gun at all?

Well, mostly it has something to do with distrusting the government with all of the firepower. And because I was raised around them and have owned guns all my life. And because it's just fun to go out and shoot. And because my son likes to do it with me. And because I'd like to take up deer hunting again if I ever get the time.

And maybe because my brain is damaged from all that granola.

 

[Slabside]

Yes, the only negative thing about carrying your weapon backpacking is the added weight, which is a small price to pay for personal safety.

The very nature of backpacking is to get away from the day-hikes that tourists take on a daily basis and get out farther in the wilderness to enjoy some peace and quiet, see more untouched areas, and stay out for multiple days. When you are farther out in the wilderness, you have to take more responsibility for your own protection because nobody but YOU can defend for you. You might, just might, be able to use a cell phone, but you can't get a quick response(if a response at all) to a 9-1-1.

I wouldn't stay overnight in a hotel room w/out my weapon. So, I certainly wouldn't stay overnight in the open in a wilderness area w/out one.
There have been many instances of attacks on backpackers and campers w/out a means of protection. Some have lost lives, others have lost valuables and had their lives put in danger by having been left in the middle of nowhere w/out gear, compass, map, etc., after having it stolen.

It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. It'll just make your muscles a little more sore to pack a couple extra pounds.

Slabside