Ruger LCP vs Sig P 238

Nakanokalronin

New member
Having owned a LCP, P3AT, DB380 and Sig P238, the Sig is the best shooting pocket 380 period. Recoil, trigger, weight, feel, real gun sights, mags....everything is above any other 380 on the market. No problems what-so-ever in carrying it cocked and locked in a pocket. Just like having a problem with a cocked and locked 1911, its safer than most think.
 

jersey_emt

New member
Nakanokalronin said:
No problems what-so-ever in carrying it cocked and locked in a pocket. Just like having a problem with a cocked and locked 1911, its safer than most think.

I would feel more comfortable if the P238 had a grip safety like a "real" 1911. Just having the thumb safety and a (fairly) light SA trigger pull I think turns a fair number of people off. The grip safety adds an extra layer of protection should the thumb safety accidentally disengage, or even if the user forgets to engage the thumb safety after chambering a round (remember, no matter how much experience and training somebody has, they can never be perfect).

Granted, in a proper pocket holster which covers the trigger guard, the presence or lack of a grip safety won't make much of a difference. But with the tiny size of the P238, people might be inclined to just throw it in their pocket with no holster.
 

Nakanokalronin

New member
But with the tiny size of the P238, people might be inclined to just throw it in their pocket with no holster.

That is the problem. There are plenty of people that want to carry IWB without a holster as well. They either add some form of clip that is attached to the gun or for Glocks this thing called a MIC holster that covers just the trigger guard with a snap on kydex piece and a string that goes on your belt. :rolleyes:

Most don't want to invest in the proper gear for their guns. A pocket holster covers the trigger , protects the finish, keeps out most dirt/lint and keeps the gun upright in a pocket. Even without a pocket holster, I don't see the P238 having the very positive thumb safety coming off but its always better to have one.

If someone forgets to put the thumb safety on before throwing in a pocket then they can forget to do many things throughout the day much much easier. People tend to use everyday scenarios to compare gun handling to, however if you forget to put on a thumb safety or if you forget a round is in the chamber or the most important...to keep you finger out off the trigger until ready to fire...then someone needs to make it a habit, but not a routine that you'll get lazy at.

All my guns are chambered. They go in the safe chambered, they come out chambered and they go in the holster chambered. I never get lazy about knowing where my finger is at when handling them or what condition they are in. Thats another thing many people lack, training with their firearms and/or taking classes to ease their worries and make them better, safer gun owners. My carry guns always stay in the holsters. I use Desantis for pocket and Bianchi 100s for IWB. Easy on and off, gun stays upright and I can take the gun and holster out together as a unit. Make it a safe habit when concerning firearms but never a routine that one can get lazy at.
 
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Hardcase

New member
I haven't tried the Sig, so I can't comment on it. I own an LCP, so I can comment on it.

I bought the LCP because I felt that it was the safest gun to put in my pocket. I'm a fan of a non-exposed hammer and double action. I'm not a fan of the sights, but it occurred to me that in a fight, I'm not going to be setting up for a bullseye shot. It honestly could have no sights and still do the job. I'll add that even with the nubs of sights that it has, I can bean a clay pigeon on the berm at about 50 feet. It just takes a little longer to get a sight picture than on most other pistols.

I'm not a fan of the recoil - it's very snappy. But, like most things, it's a compromise. In this case, it's a compromise that satisfies me. The price was right and it does what it's supposed to do. Thus, I'm happy and it sits in my pocket most every day. And, God willing, that's where it will stay.
 

hardhat harry

New member
I have 3 retirement checks plus Social Security. I work in a gun shop. I buy what I want, when I want. I spend MANY hours with gun owners. My carry guns:

SIG P238 BLACKWOOD - superb shooter, now over 500 rounds..tight groups at 15 yards. (No 7 yard line at the range I used) POCKET HOLSTER
GLOCK 27..no comment necessary GALCO Concealment Holster
S&W MODEL 60-3 (so old it's not +P) BIANCHI CHIEFS SPEC. HOLSTER

No Ruger LCP, No Taurus TCP738, No Kel-Tek 3AT.

I have sold 3 S&W Bodyguard .380 (First Edition) (yes, we got 3 sets out of the 2000)...this is a possiblilty for a next purchase.
 
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Laserlips

New member
hhh:

Respectfully,

I have one retirement check, plus social security, and I don't work at a gun shop.. But I DO buy whatever guns I want. I spend many hours with my friends who could all be considered "gun nuts"..

MY carry guns:

Ruger LCP with Crimson Trace Laser and Innovative Arms external sights..
Seecamp LWS380
9MM H&K P2000sk V3, and
CS45

No Sigs, (had 'em) no Glocks (had em'), and while I still have 5 snubbys, (2 Colt Cobra's, one DS, one J-frame 49, and one J-frame 638, w/CT Lasergrips), I don't use any of them for self defense.

All that means is that what you chose in a self defense weapon and what someone else might chose in a self defense weapon is simply a matter of personal preference..

Your choices are not necessarily the best choices for someone else, nor are mine.

But whether or not the Ruger LCP makes you feel warm and fuzzy or not, and you say not, it DOES do a wonderful job for ME for a concealed carry choice.

Almost every choice in life is subjective, and if you are as happy with your choices as I am happy with mine, we are both well armed.

Best Wishes,

jesse






I
 

hardhat harry

New member
Point is LLips, money NOT being an issue, my purchases are based on the best available. Why have so many people traded in LCPs, TCPs and 3ATs for the Diamondback 380...better gun according to many.

Why add a laser and sights to the holy grail of mouse guns (LCP)?
 

Nakanokalronin

New member
Diamondback 380

I owned one for a brief time. Trigger reset issues, slide cutting my hand and a ridiculous trigger pull and long reset. I'd take an LCP or a P3AT over the DB380 any day. Mine was a ZC model, the series everyone claimed fixed all of the problems.

No fails to feed, eject or fire but after the first 49 rounds it was trigger reset issue after trigger reset issue. Even simulating firing the gun by dry firing, holding back the trigger, racking the slide and letting go of the trigger produced the same failure to reset.

It cut my hand because unlike a Glock, they put the slide forward of the rear end of the frame so when getting a high hold like your suppose to it ran right across my hand. I own Glocks and even though it may look like one, its far from it.

The P238 is still the best IMO. Haven't found a pocket 380 that will beat it in sights,trigger,recoil, looks(not relevant) and overall construction.
 
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Laserlips

New member
hardhat harry:

And I say this in the manner of polite conversation, not confrontation.

I was merely stating that money not being an issue, I too, bought what I consider to be the "best available" self defense mouse gun..

As to why I doubled my initial $300.00 investment in my LCP? Glad you asked.

Well, I could afford it,

But more so, because after buying my first LCP, and having it perform perfectly right out of the box as to absolute reliability AND surprising accuracy at self defense range, I felt it deserving of any improvements and enhancements that might be available for it.

I have long been a fan of the fine Crimson Trace Lasers (and Lasergrips), and putting one on my LCP @ $154.00 made sense, to me. Additionally, in reading various comments on the dedicated LCP forum (elsiepeaforum.com) I kept reading excellent posts regarding the slide refinish, external sight up grade as offered by Phllip and Jenny @ Innovative Arms in S.C. for another $150.00. A mirror polish of the feed ramp, and a mirror polish of the barrel were options at $5.00, and I wanted those also. A mirror polished feed ramp is never a bad thing, and a mirror polished barrel looks "good".. :)

I will be the first to admit that the factory finish of the Ruger LCP is not extremely durable, and in fact mine had started to wear at the left tip of the front of the slide where it made contact with the holster from daily carry. So, a slide refinish would have been in the cards before too long anyway.

The external sights consist of a Trijicon front night sight, and a reverse ramped (not night) rear.. The idea behind the reverse ramping is to allow for a one handed cycle of the slide (as pulled against another object, like the pants leg), should two hands be unavailable.

So, I spent roughly $300.00 to upgrade my Ruger LCP, where I could have just as easily have spent that money on something else, say another LCP?

But, I already have two LCP's, and my wife has her own.. The last two have echoed the perfect reliability and accuracy of the first.

I fully understand that any mouse gun is designed as a last ditch "get off me" firearm, and external sights, or the presence of a laser are probably worthless under such conditions..

But, there just "might" be a situation where the presence of a laser could be a deterrent, or provide additional accuracy, and there "might" be a situation where a person could have an extra second, micro-second, whatever, to actually acquire a good sight picture, and for that possibility, external sights are nice to have, and in low level light, night sights are even better.

Additionally, many folks who disdain lasers in general often point out the old "battery failure in a crisis" concern.. :barf: Well, I've had, have and enjoy Crimson Trace Lasers on several firearms for over a decade, and so far have been unable to kill the batteries with a shovel.. I just replace them, still functioning perfectly, once a year as I do the smoke detectors in my home..

But, let's say Mr. Murphy and his unpopular law shows up at the most inopportune moment regarding critical laser battery failure?

Well, then I have my excellent IA external sights to fall back on....

If the confrontation is sudden, and close up, then all I can do, or you can do, or ANYONE can do is look at the threat, point at the center mass of that threat and pull the trigger until the threat is stopped.

To do that your firearm must be RELIABLE... Period.

Once you are satisfied with the absolute reliability of your self defense firearm, you are best served by having to do absolutely NOTHING to your firearm OTHER than to pull the trigger... Anything that adds time, or the necessity to think is not beneficial under those conditions.

And that is why, as neat, and pretty, and I'm sure excellent, as the fine little Sig P238 is, the presence of a hammer, the presence of a safety that must be moved is TO ME, and IN MY OPINION, self defeating to the job at hand.

IF the little Sig P238, Colt Mustang Clone, were DA, I'd have one.. But even if I had one, I'd probably not use it for daily carry, as a cocked hammer is not conducive to concealed carry in a rear pocket holster, the type holster I prefer.

So, no single-action anythings for me, for personal defense in my cc weapon choice.

But as I said earlier, I'm simply stating why I like, and carry daily, MY mouse gun choice in the Ruger LCP.

Again, no offense, just conversin', not confrontin'.:)


Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. And the reason I leave my $800.00 Seecamp LWS380 home most of the time in favor of the much "cheaper" Ruger LCP? 1. The fine LWS380 is painful to shoot. 2. The fine LWS380 offers no external sights. 3. The fine LWS380 offers no Crimson Trace Laser.

What the fine Seecamp LWS380 DOES offer, is extremely tiny size offering maximum ease of concealment, and absolute reliability... If Crimson Trace would make a laser for it, I'd buy one in a heartbeat and my LWS380 would be my daily carry choice, even with no external sights, and damn the finger pain if I had to shoot it in my self defense.
 
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Rembart

New member
Laserlips,

Love what you did with the LCP! I had decided on the LCP with laser but went to pick one up at my LGS and had sold the one that I had fondled so many times. It was then my LGS brought out the SIG238 and dropped her in my hand. I was smitten. I had ruled them out for the condition one carry issue but now am glad I made the purchase. The gun shoots far better than the LCP and the Kahr 380. My gun has been flawless through the 150 round break in. I love this gun and encourage anyone who has ruled out the SIG because of the cocked and locked to really take a look at it. Unlike the 1911 the SIG can be loaded and cleared with the safety on. Basically, once loaded the only time you need to take the safety off is to fire the weapon. Sweeping the trigger under duress should easily be taken care of in normal proficiency training so I don't think this will be an issue. I like the idea of the safety with the crisp but fairly heavy 6 lb. trigger. This gun is awesome and it appears that SIG now has the bugs out. The only downside I see is that the recoil spring needs to be changed periodically. With this basic maintenance I think the SIG will outlive the polymer guns JMHO. I expect to get a lifetime of shooting with this jewell.
 

Laserlips

New member
Rembart:

Thank you for the kind words regarding my Ruger LCP..

I believe there are no "right or wrong" choices in self defense choices that fit everyone, there are only right choices or wrong choices for each individual.

What works for me (in this case my LCP) and what might be the best choice for another, yourself for example, is not necessarily the same.

As to the Sig P238?

I like 'em myself. I'm an old Sig guy, and in fact for a decade or so my 9MM carry pistol was a Sig P239 (w/CT Laser).

I have held and examined the fine Sig P238 at my local gun store, and as neat as they are, I could not get by the "single action" aspect (not suitable for ME in a cc firearm), and additionally I'm a lefty, and IF I bought a P238 I'd have to have it converted so as to have ambi-safety.

I have never found a more suitable cc mouse gun choice (for me) than my LCP, and when I leave the house with it in my back pocket I leave roughly 20 other compact, sub-compact choices home in the gun safe.

The only thing that matters regarding what YOU need in a cc firearm is that the choice you make fits your needs.. What I like, or what ANYONE other than yourself likes mean squat.

I try and never get into a "my choice" is the only right choice, and your "choice is crap" argument. There are folks out there carrying all sorts of mouse guns concealed and imo as long as that choice is easily concealable, relatively light (for all day carry), self defense accurate and RELIABLE it's a great choice, for that person.

I consider all concealed carry mouse guns as a "last ditch", "get off me" self defense weapon. If I think I'm going to actually have to defend myself with my concealed weapon on any given occasion I'll have my CS45 in it's FIST iwb along for the trip, as I admire the size of the hole left by a round of 45ACP over that left by a 380 for self defense purposes...

Give me a choice and I'd have one of my 12ga. pump riot shotguns along too.

But, cc is a compromise, and I believe the Sig P238, or one of my LCP's are as good as it gets in a mouse gun.

Best Wishes to you,

Jesse



But that's just me. :)
 

los

New member
:)

LCP-SigP238comparisonchart-2-1.jpg

Note: Sig Sauer P238 image is flipped horizontally
 
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