Ruger LCP vs Sig P 238

[davidh5000]

I kind of figured that sooner or later I was gonna jump on te bamdwagon with everybody else and buy one of the pocket 380's. My problem is I have narrowed it down to two of them now, but can't decide which one to buy. Its either the Ruger LCP or the Sig P238. If the Sig, I think I may possibly go with the HD model with the stainless steel frame, but the regular alloy frame is still an option to save weigh. I know the choices are as different as daylight is from dark. I was wondering if I could get some opinions from the people here as to what they think of the two guns and which they think is the better gun.

 

[zombieslayer]

LCP- its lighter, way less expensive, and has a DA trigger. I personally don't want a SA with a thumb safety in my pocket. Personal choice. The LCP must be pretty good, aside from the Keltec the LCP is always compared to much more expensive guns. Just my 2cents. This thread will likely be a long one. Get out the popcorn.

 

[VTRich]

If you go with the P238 HD, be sure the build date (on the box) is post July 2010. There was peening on the slide stop notch and Sig changed to a thicker slide on that model. Do a search on the SigForum for all the details. I have a P238 and love it, however I carry it in an IWB holster. I would not feel comfortable carrying it in my pocket "cocked and locked".

 

[AustinTX]

You could find at least a day's worth of recent commentary on this subject with the search feature.

My own advice is to stay far away from the P238. I know there are plenty of happy owners out there, as with any gun, but a quick search about this gun on this and other popular forums, including Sigforum, will reveal an outrageous frequency of quality control problems with it. It's a lot prettier than the Ruger, and it feels much nicer in the hand, but there are presently too many issues with that pistol. Sig is making progress with some of the gun's issues, but there are still plenty of new posts showing up about problems with the guns.

The Ruger, on the other hand, is drawing positive reviews overall these days. I won't buy one, because the long trigger does not get along well with my big hand, but it seems to be a reliable choice, at least as far as these pocket guns go. The LCP is also significantly smaller and lighter than the P238.

Even if the P238 were being produced with satisfactory quality control, I still am not interested in the idea of carrying a pocket gun cocked-and-locked. The protrusions at the rear of the P238 (cocked or uncocked hammer, beavertail-style frame, safety, higher-profile sights) strike me as more likely to snag upon removal from the pocket than those on other .380 mouseguns. The Ruger is much "slipperier" at the back. I don't want to mess with safeties at all in a tiny pocket gun. I want a nice DAO trigger, no safety levers, low-profile sights, and no exposed hammers.

I'm not much of a Kahr fan, because I think they also have too many QC issues for guns at that price (though not nearly at the rate that the P238 appears to be having them), but I'll probably take my chances with a P380 before too long. It feels terrific in the hand, has a perfect DAO pull for this type of gun (far superior to the LCP), and is also very streamlined and uncluttered on the exterior. The top of the backstrap is flush with the rear of the slide. The sights are better than the LCP's but not so elevated as to cause a serious snag hazard. The gun is also more than 0.6 inches shorter in length, significantly thinner, a little shorter in height, and about two-thirds of the weight in comparison to the P238. If you're talking about the P238 HD, then the Kahr is about half of its weight. (An all-steel, 20.1 oz. gun for pocket carry does not sound fun at all to me. That's less than one ounce under the weight of a Glock 19.)

 

[davidh5000]

After thinking about the size of the P238 HD it has me also considering throwing the Kahr PM40 into the mix. Has anyone here tried pocket carry with this gun?

 

[Mike-Mat]

The Sig and LCP seem like 2 very different guns. Big difference in Size, weight, price. When in doubt... buy American.

 

[dogtown tom]

Mike-Mat The Sig and LCP seem like 2 very different guns. Big difference in Size, weight, price. When in doubt... buy American.

Without a doubt, both ARE made in America.

 

[Mike-Mat]

According to the Sig Arms web site....

"The SIG SAUER® management team is made up of experienced individuals that work together as a cohesive team to provide customers with the finest of products, training, and services in the firearms industry. The Swiss Industrial Group (SIG) sold SIGARMS® in October 2000, to Michael Lüke and Thomas Ortmeier, two German entrepreneurs. "

It sounds like a German owned company to me.

Made here, owned here is more of an American product
than....
Made here, the money goes to Germany.

 

[dogtown tom]

Mike-Mat :...Made here, the money goes to Germany.

Yep, all the $$$$ go to Germany. I didn't know all those American factory workers at SigUSA in Exeter, New Hampshire work for free.

 

[comn-cents]

I have carried both, right now of the two all I carry is the Sig. The sights on te Sig are the biggest reason. I can actually use the sig sights. There is a weight difference but only if I hold them side by side. Carrying the Sig cocked & locked in a good pocket holster is safe, never had the safety come off on it's own.

 

[Mike-Mat]

Your right. Poor choice of words.

The Profit goes to Germany.

No different than when you buy a Toyota car made in Tennessee by American workers, the profit goes to Japan.

When you buy a Dan Wesson firearm made in Kansas by Americans, the profit goes to Czech Republic (CZ).

My point is, things that are made here by American workers, in American owned companies, keep more of the $ spent by the consumer, here in the USA. That is better for our economy and manufacturing presence, then sending the money somewhere else.

Both are fine quality fire arms. So if either will serve your needs, then the next thing to consider is... Which one will benefit our economy the MOST.

Personally I don't see the comparison between the 2 guns. Ths SIG is very different from the Ruger. If I needed a pocket gun like the LCP, I'd buy the Ruger. If I needed a more robust , higher quality gun like the SIG, I'd buy a Springfield XD.

 

[Sixer]

I finally got a chance to put 6rds through a Sig P238 yesterday.

All I can say is WOW!

The PRO's

- The sights are great
- The accuracy is as good as most larger frame guns
- The felt recoil is lighter than any pocket .380 I've shot.
- It feels good and looks better.

The CON's

- It is heavier that the LCP for sure ( but not too heavy for a "pocket" pistol IMHO)
- The price tag
- The idea of carrying it cocked and locked in my pocket doesn't sit well with me.

Overall, it is a sweet little gun for sure. I left the fun store with the intention of shopping prices online. I ran across this thread and now I'm torn between the Kahr p380 and the Sig P238.

I have no experience with the Kahr, but I'm having a hard time biting on the Sig because of the "cocked and locked" deal. Not trying to hijack this thread, but I'd be interested in hearing what kind of experience people have had with the Kahr .380.

 

[TinyDee]

The simple thing has been said. If you want a pocket carry or CCW get the Ruger. A single action auto is not handy in any way.

 

[comn-cents]

TinyDee "A single action auto is not handy in any way".

What does that even mean? If you are not capable of understanding how it works I guess you might be right.

 

[AustinTX]

Personally I don't see the comparison between the 2 guns. Ths SIG is very different from the Ruger.

I'd agree with that.

It's just my own view, of course, but I think the Sig is kind of a "tweener" as a design and doesn't really satisfactorily fill any role compared to its competition.

There are significantly smaller, lighter, more streamlined .380 guns for pocket carry. For IWB carry, I think the .380 is unsatisfactory. Furthermore, the Sig is not much smaller or lighter than some options in 9mm; in some cases, it's longer and heavier. If you can carry IWB, you can manage something in a better caliber.

 

[Laserlips]

JMOfartO:

I honestly don't believe a single action "any pistol" is the best choice for a cc firearm..

I know there are legions of "1911/cocked 'n locked" folks who disagree, but I think KISS is of paramount importance, and I don't want to have to do anything other than pull the trigger if I ever had to defend my life with my cc choice..


Which is by the way, the Ruger LCP.

I love the "looks" of the Colt Mustang clone, and if it were DA I'd have one already.. But it's not, and I don't.

No offense to anyone.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[dogtown tom]

Anecdotal FWIW.......

I've transferred dozens of Sig238's, LCP's and KTP3at's, but just a few of the Kahr P380's.

The most satisfied customers seem to be those who bought the Kahr and LCP. The 238's seemed to get sent back to the factory the most.

My problem with the Sig238 is that it is based on the Colt Mustang, not the most trouble free Colt of all time. The 238's are beautiful little guns but I don't know what niche they are expected to fill. Far from ideal as a true pocket pistol due to an exposed hammer, too heavy and large when compared to it's other .380 competitors and pretty expensive to boot.

The advantage of carrying a Kahr P380, Ruger LCP or KelTec P3at is because those are some of the lightest, smallest affordable .380's on the market. The 238 does not offer the same advantages. If I wanted something the size & weight of the 238 I might as well choose a 9mm that is the same size- like a Kahr PM9 or KelTec PF9.

 

[Mr. Whimsy]

Sorry to be blunt - no offense and nothing personal, it's just that I typed a long comment based on experience with a Kel-Tec and a P238 I just bought ... and it disappeared before i could get it posted! Frustrated, I will sum it up succinctly ...

... are you guys kidding? Just trying to get some fanboy's goat?

I'm not a fan of Sigs, but did miss out on the original Mustangs. I for one am delighted with the reintroduction of a small and light (almost too small and light for me), NON-PLASTIC SINGLE-ACTION auto.

It is the bees knees when you are trying to put bullets exactly where you want them, or at least believe marksmanship to be a dying art. DAO is great for administrators, not so great for being precise at the range. I personally think of DAO as "accuracy-retarding" and something that unnecessarily hinders my accuracy. I even carried it "cocked and locked" in a pocket holster and didn't even blow my kneecap off. I'm just weird that way - but then I was raised with single-action autos and taught that the only safety I could really rely on was located between my ears. YMMV.

The manufacture/quality is superb, and I haven't had any of the problems I've read about.

Kicks less than any centerfire I've ever owned, and spookily accurate. I'm not sure how a plastic fantastic could improve on this by being smaller and lighter, this thing is about the size of the .25's I grew up around.

It is several orders of magnitude better than the Kel-Tec and anything similar. But people ought to shoot what makes them happy I guess.

 

[AustinTX]

... are you guys kidding? Just trying to get some fanboy's goat?

Does it look like anyone's kidding? Are there no serious opinions that differ from your own?

DAO is great for administrators, not so great for being precise at the range.

Range precision is not a major concern for me when evaluating a pocket .380 pistol (though I found the Kahr P380 to be plenty accurate and to have a very smooth trigger). It's a back-up gun. It's intended for a chaotic, surprising, close-range self-defense situation, and it's not intended as my primary weapon.

For my back-up gun, I want something that I can rip from my pocket with minimal concern about snagging, and I want something that only requires a pull of the trigger to shoot. Accordingly, I don't want a gun with an exposed hammer, a beavertail-style frame, an exposed safety lever, or even super range-friendly sights.

I personally think of DAO as "accuracy-retarding" and something that unnecessarily hinders my accuracy.

That's a bit of a "you" problem. With sufficient practice, you should be able to shoot a gun with a good DAO trigger quickly and accurately, especially for the distances applicable in close-range self-defense situations.

I'm not sure how a plastic fantastic could improve on this by being smaller and lighter

You don't see how being smaller (i.e. easier to conceal) could constitute an improvement?

The manufacture/quality is superb, and I haven't had any of the problems I've read about.

Until Sig manages to resolve the abundant quality-control problems with the P238, I can't really agree with the first part of this statement. They certainly look and feel nice, though.

Regardless, if you've purchased a problem-free example and you're completely happy with it, that's terrific. It's also possible for others to have entirely reasonable criteria that eliminate the P238 as a satisfactory pocket-carry candidate.

 

[AK103K]

I've owned both, and no longer have the P238. While I do still have the LCP, and so far, its been a reliable and shootable gun, I just dont see it doing anything better than my Seecamps, so I most likely will soon be rid of it too.

My SIG was not at all reliable. It was accurate, and seemed to be well made, it just would not function properly. I thought about sending it back, but with the fairly large number of posts by people with repeat trips back and no joy on multiple returns, I figured I'd just cut my losses, and dumped it at a loss. Even if it were to come back 100%, I probably still would have got rid of it, as it just wasnt fitting the bill anyway.

Other than it not working, my biggest issue was the spring replacement interval. The manual originally stated that it should be done every 1500 rounds, and then I was told on the phone by SIG's CS department, that it was 1000 rounds. He also stated proudly that thats why they sold the replacement springs in packs of three for a reasonable price. Unfortunately, they were never available when I tried to buy them, and I had to get some from Wolff.

Another issue was the safety. While it was or seemed secure, it was very loud when swept off, even when you tried to do so discreetly. When I say loud, I mean loud too. Not just a minor "click", but more along the lines of an M1/M14 or AK's safety being snicked off. If I were to have one, I'd probably carry it loaded, with the hammer down, as its quieter to employ that way, and takes about the same effort to make it ready to fire.

And yet another issue was the way it ate brass. It was destroying brass at the rate of 5-10%. This problem might have been resolved along with its reliability issues, but then again, maybe not. I've seen other posts addressing it with guns that seemed to run OK too. The gun also chucked its empties all over the place and in random fashion. Some fell on your arm, others 20-30' away. Trying to recover your brass was a chore to say the least.

As far as the sights go, the P238 does have nice sights, but I really dont see the point or need with this type pistol. Its a close range gun, and the sights really arent needed. I feel the same way about the LCP's little nubs. My Seecamps have no sights at all, and I can easily make good hits at 10-15 yards with them when needed, and with no effort.