Ron Paul just ended his campaign

helpless

New member
I just decided to donate all proceeds from the sale of these decals to Ron Pauls campaign.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248082

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STAGE 2

New member
"A point that can not not be argued with"

Those comments make you an easy target.

So be it. I reserve the right to speak my mind as much as the next person here. Furthermore, I'm not wrong. Even the most ardent of Paul supporters must concede that there isn't any way that Paul will take the nomination. The GOP doesn't want him. He doesn't appeal to mainstream repubilcans (whether thats good or bad) and certianly not to democrats.

I'm not arguing whether Paul is or is not a good candidate. I'm simply stating he can't get elected, and after last night, thats even more true.


Anyway, moving past the "I'm just a flag waving American" (musical notes), Stage2, if you really think that, why do you think he got second place in approval as to who won the debate? Right below Romney and well above "america's Mayor"

Because all of the liberal blogs encouraged people to call in and vote for Paul. Its really that simple.

It amazes me that people here can dismiss all of the statistically accurate polls where Paul doesn't even register but hold up 2 polls in which its clear that people are trying to sabotage as gold.

What's the excuse going to be when Paul doesn't even clear 2% in the primaries.
 

Doug.38PR

Moderator
what polls are they that you are talking about that register him as 2%? Were they prior to last night? He is the only one up there with a voice that stands out from all the others, and like he said, there is a reason Republicans lost the vote last year, because they aren't conservative anymore.
 

GoSlash27

New member
You know he's up to 46% in the new MSNBC poll? That's an even more epic whuppin' than the first debate. And now the media can't ignore him.

I wouldn't be so quick to say he "can't" win, but I will be very quick to point this out: I don't care if he can or can't, 'cause I'm voting for him regardless.
 

badbob

Moderator
Because all of the liberal blogs encouraged people to call in and vote for Paul. Its really that simple

Stage, since I don't go to any liberal blogs, would you be so kind as to post links to a few that are encouraging libs to vote for Dr. Paul in the polls?

badbob
 
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Are any of the mainstream media talk shows talking about him yet? I know Chris Mathews Hardball mentioned something about him and how Giuliani went off on him, but thats all I heard. I really hope he gets some attention out of this, and I hope its more than just "The baseball that Rudy hit a homerun with".
 

SteelCore

New member
Ron Paul is the only genuine conservative in the current US presidential race. Why? Because he believes in conserving the Constitution, conserving traditional American values, and not liberally spending US blood and money in pointless overseas imbroglios that benefit no one (except perhaps Israel, to the delight of Falwell's flock and the Armageddon fetishists).

Support of foreign interventionism is NOT a traditionally conservative viewpoint. The true conservatives want to bring home the US troops as soon as possible and station them on the US borders to prevent illegal immigrants and terrorists from sneaking in.

The line that "if we don't fight them over there, then we'll have to fight them over here" is obviously bogus. What is stopping any terrorist from coming over here and attacking US civilians NOW? Nothing whatsoever.

Paul was absolutely right that US foreign policy was the reason for the 9/11 attacks. He could have articulated that point a little better (he spoke of "bombing Iraq for 10 years," which I attribute to nervous error), but it's true. Those who say, "Oh, that's blaming America" obviously don't think that the US government can do anything wrong; however, the US government has made many mistakes throughout its history, not to mention its repeated lies and even support of war criminals like Pinochet. The US government is NOT above criticism, and any true patriot knows that.

Voting against Ron Paul is like voting against the Constitution, since he is the only Republican who supports the Constitution. It's just that simple. I will not vote for an anti-Constitution candidate just because that candidate is more likely to win.
 

STAGE 2

New member
what polls are they that you are talking about that register him as 2%? Were they prior to last night? He is the only one up there with a voice that stands out from all the others, and like he said, there is a reason Republicans lost the vote last year, because they aren't conservative anymore

Umm, any national reputable polling source.
 

Doug.38PR

Moderator
no. It just stands to reason, people voted in Republicans into the House, Senate and White House 10 years ago (7 years ago for the white house) because they were tired of 40 years of liberal Democrats.....and nothing got done, the Republicans were just as bad as the Democrats, nothing changed. The only difference between the Reps and Dems is the latter is at least honest about being for big government, bombing countries and stiring up trouble overseas. People stopped buying it on all points (save and except all the neoconartist mouths like Rush mouth Limbaugh, Laura nostril-voice Ingram, Sean Punk Hannity etc. that claim to represent conservatism)
 

auburnboattail

New member
Are you serious

Mr. Paul states that the 9/11 attacks were our fault!
We were attacked on our soil and 3000 People of all races and reglions were killed.
The terrorists were not soldiers or hereos they were pathetic cowards who killed innocent souls in support of a perverted view of Jihad Wahobism of Islam.
In no way is that justifable, understandable. it is an act of war.
In the 40's we used atomic weapons on a country for attacking Pearl Harbor
and killed hundreds of thousands of people to stop a similiarly fervant people.

The man no only is not credible but a danger to freedom.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)
 

Doug.38PR

Moderator
He said the 911 was the fault of bad U.S. Government foreign policy. He wasn't defending what they did, he was talking about cause and effect. He quoted Reagan and Washington's non-interventionist attitudes to back himself up. I'm glad he said what he did. Just because someone doesn't embrace neo-con flag waving horsedump :barf: (and insult to the intelligence of America) doesn't mean they are a danger to our freedom.

He is credible because he has read the facts unlike those other knowitall inside the beltway play actors on the stage.

I find it a relief to see someone who doesn't march to the beat of their drum.

In the 40's we used atomic weapons on a country for attacking Pearl Harbor
and killed hundreds of thousands of people to stop a similiarly fervant people.

:eek: And YOU say HE is dangerous? Your kind of thinking is even more dangerous than the terrorists! Slaughtering whole cities full of civilians?!!


Don't listen to all the talking heads (they take their lead from the elites), look at the surveys, we already have one form last night, let's see what the rest have to say
 

SteelCore

New member
Mr. Paul states that the 9/11 attacks were our fault!
The 9/11 attacks were the fault of the US government, yes.

We were attacked on our soil and 3000 People of all races and reglions were killed.
The terrorists were not soldiers or hereos they were pathetic cowards who killed innocent souls in support of a perverted view of Jihad Wahobism of Islam.
Far more than 3000 innocent people have been killed due to US foreign policy. When our government kills thousands upon thousands of innocent people, it can be expected that people will hate us and want to retaliate. However, that does not excuse the terrorists' attacks on random American civilians.

By the way, the 9/11 attackers were evil, but they were anything but cowards. It's never cowardly to willingly go on a mission from which you know you won't return. It may feel good to call them cowards, but it's not true.

In no way is that justifable, understandable. it is an act of war.
Ron Paul agreed that the US had to retaliate against terrorists who committed such acts, but the Iraqis themselves had nothing to do with 9/11.

In the 40's we used atomic weapons on a country for attacking Pearl Harbor and killed hundreds of thousands of people to stop a similiarly fervant people.
That was itself an act of terrorism. Deliberately killing civilians is always terrorism, whether the US does it or someone else. The ends don't justify the means.

The man no only is not credible but a danger to freedom.
A danger to freedom? How?

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)
And yet most Republicans want to do exactly that, with national ID cards, warrantless wiretaps, etc. Much of Bush's domestic policy has revolved around the notion of trading liberty for security.
 

Thunderhawk88

Moderator
By the way, the 9/11 attackers were evil, but they were anything but cowards.

Really? Who else besides themselves had weapons on the aircraft they hijacked? They attacked unarmed, unprepared civilians. Pretty courageous, huh? Oh yeah, but they certain faced death. Hells bells, they wanted death, to collect the rewards they were promised Yeah, you're right, there weren't cowards........
 

Dust Monkey

New member
Wow, For a minute there I thought this was DU, with all the Blame America First crowd. I heard mention of Pearl Harbor, did someone blame America or Bush for that one as well.

Look, Paul will not go anywhere. He, for all intents and purposes said that America is to blame for what happened on 9/11. That is a no no, bad ju ju. Look how the crowd reacted to what Rudy shot back. That should be your meter to judge by. I was a fan of Ron Paul, not anymore. Our policy abroad is not "inviting" Terrorism. Just like owning a GUN does not "invite" a killing.

Geez, the blame America crowd used to be screaming, far left wingnuts.
 

STAGE 2

New member
By the way, the 9/11 attackers were evil, but they were anything but cowards. It's never cowardly to willingly go on a mission from which you know you won't return. It may feel good to call them cowards, but it's not true.

Warriors fight on the open field. Warriors attack only those that take up arms against them. Cowards target the weak and the frail. Cowards shoot in the back rather than fight from the front. Going on a suicide mission and being a coward aren't mutually exclusive, These people ARE cowards.
 

Doggieman

New member
Doesn't matter

Libertarians rarely get elected anyhow. I think I'll be sitting out this next Pres. election. Don't like the repubs.. too corrupt. Don't like the demos.. too.. Hillary.
 

SteelCore

New member
Thunderhawk88 said:
Really? Who else besides themselves had weapons on the aircraft they hijacked? They attacked unarmed, unprepared civilians. Pretty courageous, huh? Oh yeah, but they certain faced death. Hells bells, they wanted death, to collect the rewards they were promised Yeah, you're right, there weren't cowards........

STAGE 2 said:
Warriors fight on the open field. Warriors attack only those that take up arms against them. Cowards target the weak and the frail. Cowards shoot in the back rather than fight from the front. Going on a suicide mission and being a coward aren't mutually exclusive, These people ARE cowards.
You guys are entitled to your opinions, but I disagree. Willingly facing death, even if for an evil purpose, is the absolute opposite of cowardice. Note, however, that I did not claim that the hijackers were "warriors." They were terrorists. What they did was about as courageous as the US nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Dust Monkey said:
Wow, For a minute there I thought this was DU, with all the Blame America First crowd. I heard mention of Pearl Harbor, did someone blame America or Bush for that one as well.
So you think the US government can do no wrong and should never be blamed for anything? And you equate the American government with America?

Look, Paul will not go anywhere. He, for all intents and purposes said that America is to blame for what happened on 9/11. That is a no no, bad ju ju.
No, he did not. He said that American foreign policy was to blame. America is not equivalent to its government. If it is, then watch out if a Democrat gets elected, because every time you disagree with the Democratic president you will be acting "unpatriotic" and "unAmerican."

Look how the crowd reacted to what Rudy shot back.
They reacted like a herd of bleating sheep.

That should be your meter to judge by.
No, I judge for myself without looking to see what the majority is doing. The majority isn't always right, and frequently the majority are extremely gullible, as when most Americans were suckered into invading Iraq in the first place because of "Saddam's WMDs." However, I have heard that Ron Paul did very well in the polls after the debate, so maybe there's a ray of hope.

I was a fan of Ron Paul, not anymore. Our policy abroad is not "inviting" Terrorism. Just like owning a GUN does not "invite" a killing.
Osama bin Laden himself stated that the reasons for 9/11 were (1) US military presence in Arabian lands, (2) Iraq sanctions (which killed many thousands of innocent Iraqis), and (3) uncritical US support for Israel. These were the reasons he gave, and they all relate to foreign policy.

Terrorists have every reason to tell the truth about their motives and goals. They have no reason to lie -- what would be the point of lying about their demands? So US meddling in the Middle East is unquestionably the reason why radical Islamists hate the US. The current Iraq occupation is only making it worse.

Geez, the blame America crowd used to be screaming, far left wingnuts.
No one's blaming America -- only its government. The same government that brought you the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, Waco, and Ruby Ridge; the same government that propped up brutal dictators like Pinochet; the same government that lies to its citizens and has considered staging false terrorist attacks in the past (even to the point of killing innocent people) in order to gain public support for a war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to enact acts of terrorism and violence on US soil or against US interests, blamed on Cuba, in order to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro. As part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative, the plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state-sponsored acts of terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S. and Cuban soil. The plan was proposed by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer.
If the US had carried out this plan and people were angered by it, would that make them "America-hating leftists"?

We deserve a better government, and Ron Paul is our only hope.
 

MrApathy

New member
both parties are hijacked and moving towards fascism than anything else.
its certainly not moving towards the ideals and principles the founding fathers wrote about and implemented into some of the greatest documents ever written.

bunch of fakes posing as liberal/conservative when they are neither. but nevermind that sheep fall for the corporate owned media propaganda hook line and sinker.

now we have a basterdized corrupt government that has its way with the world and despite massive propaganda campaign and group thinking sheep the US has its way with people here in the US as well.

constitution alert level
"its just a damned piece of paper"-GWB

all this bullcrap I here about being patriotic. what in hell is less patriotic than basterdizing the constitution? oh its convenient when you want guns or want to act like some big bad free speaking powertripping glutton. someone else speaks out oh know thats unpatriotic. you dont have a view point,widom or knowledge. logic is not everything and rehtoric and propaganda is just that.

you are ignorant,abused and controlled by corporations,banks and government.

screw the left wing / right wing paradigm its a paradigm that divides this nation and makes us week to the powers that corrupt the government so they can gain wealth and power.

America is not the Government. This Government is just as bad if not worse than the Monarchy that lorded over the Colonies. high time for a new Revolution to cut down this Government and get back to what it was all about.

your so controlled you havent a clue what freedom is.
pepped up with politics of fear,propaganda and the wine of Babylon.

2008 will probably be another 2006 cause sheep are too ignorant to look outside the rehtoric and propaganda and think for themselves.

divided up pitted against each other. freedom,liberty,rights restricted meanwhile the government has granted privileges and immunity to those in the government and corporations with government contracts.

A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.
Thomas Jefferson

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it.
Thomas Jefferson

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
Thomas Jefferson

Every generation needs a new revolution.
Thomas Jefferson

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

It is our duty still to endeavor to avoid war; but if it shall actually take place, no matter by whom brought on, we must defend ourselves. If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
Thomas Jefferson

we were attacked on 9/11 yet the event has not been extinguished instead we are held at bay by tyrants that want to milk this country and the war for absolute power to tyranny.

instead of extinguishing Osama we went into Iraq for WMD's and found none. made connections to Al Qaeda that were poor and never substantiated.

bunch of daft fools

A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.
James Madison

Ron Paul would hold a revolution that would tear this government a new hole for the people of this country to reclaim what has been taken. own newly manufacture machine guns,short barreled shotguns and rifles and all sorts of stuff that has been banned and restricted except for a privileged class that pays a tax without representation.
thats nothing compared to the rest of the gains.

but you all are a bunch of animals that have been domesticated and caged and fed bull you wouldnt know what the hell to do if one day you found your cage open.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
Winston Churchill

Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.
Winston Churchill
 

b22

Moderator
If anyone thinks Ron Paul was wrong, here are the reasons according to Bin Laden himself.

I feel bad saying this but he has many good reasons to be angry with America.

Osama Bin Laden said:
(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.

(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.

(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon.

(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;

(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah, using violence and lies to do so.

(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large prison of fear and subdual.

(iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a paltry price.

(iv) These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.

(v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out fight against you.

(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.

(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.

(f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the entire world rises and has not yet sat down.

(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.

(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!

(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:

(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.

(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.

(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.

(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.

(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html
 

Doug.38PR

Moderator
Oh don't you know? Like Laura nazel voice Ingram says, don't listen to what the terrorists say, they're the enemy. They attacked us because they wanted to attack "freedom" and just hate America because.....they just don't like "freedom". But because we are Americans, we love "freedom" so we have to go kill them.:rolleyes: A little Dubya neocon logic there

b22, just be clear, he has good reasons to be angry with the American policy and government, no good reason to ram planes into buildings.
 
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