blackhawk45
New member
I have a Cimarron Thunderer,3 1/2" 45 Colt,with the birdshead grip,and it is just as accurate as my NMBH 5 1/2" 45 Colt.
Researching a Single Action Revolver (.45 Long Colt). Need help/advice.
- Thread starter AraneaeFatalis
- Start date
++1 on the "Montado." It's the "only" one mentioned that fills your bill on all accounts. Its shorter than standard barrel--at 3-3/4"--is the bees knees, and the only one mentioned here that combines the ruggedness of the Ruger with "full 6-up" carrying/shooting + the extra-short barrel length for CCW and the slightly handier weight/size of the Colt-like NV frame. I've got the .357 and even being the shorter gun, it's no lightweight but still great, the extra heft appreciated with hotter .357 loads. The .45'd be a sweetheart to carry, especially in that length and what with those seven nice big holes!
Caution: it does not say "Montado" anywhere on the gun. It's just a name given to that particular configuration/combo of features. It is a "New Vaquero" model with added features. Originally they came with grooves on the frontstrap (for extra "traction" for horseback shooters--its target audience). Folks discovered they'd like it for general Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) competition too, the rules of which preclude the extra grooves. So Ruger/Davidsons complied with a grooveless version as well. A good thing to know if you do--or don't--have an interest in CAS.
Don't sweat the "loads" issue. Stick with "normal" loads and you'll be well within limits. You don't have to shoot just the "cowboy loads" as has been myth'd by some, but definitely should stay away from "Ruger only" loads designed only for the larger frame BH and SBH (and Freedom Arms) etc.
The Montado is still considered a special model and "distributor exclusive" (Davidsons I believe), and as such you can expect to pay more than a standard NV. CCW only a minor/very occasional carry issue? Get the 4.68 (4-5/8) and save some money. Better sight radius/acquisition and slightly better recoil/flip control with those few extra oz's of barrel.
Later EDIT: Just re-read your "no less than 4.5"" criteria, but at least check out a Montado anyway! Regardless, get a New Vaquero--in whatever barrel suits you. You won't regret.
Good luck and have fun!
Caution: it does not say "Montado" anywhere on the gun. It's just a name given to that particular configuration/combo of features. It is a "New Vaquero" model with added features. Originally they came with grooves on the frontstrap (for extra "traction" for horseback shooters--its target audience). Folks discovered they'd like it for general Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) competition too, the rules of which preclude the extra grooves. So Ruger/Davidsons complied with a grooveless version as well. A good thing to know if you do--or don't--have an interest in CAS.
Don't sweat the "loads" issue. Stick with "normal" loads and you'll be well within limits. You don't have to shoot just the "cowboy loads" as has been myth'd by some, but definitely should stay away from "Ruger only" loads designed only for the larger frame BH and SBH (and Freedom Arms) etc.
The Montado is still considered a special model and "distributor exclusive" (Davidsons I believe), and as such you can expect to pay more than a standard NV. CCW only a minor/very occasional carry issue? Get the 4.68 (4-5/8) and save some money. Better sight radius/acquisition and slightly better recoil/flip control with those few extra oz's of barrel.
Later EDIT: Just re-read your "no less than 4.5"" criteria, but at least check out a Montado anyway! Regardless, get a New Vaquero--in whatever barrel suits you. You won't regret.
Good luck and have fun!
Last edited:
gak said:
Not entirely, the OP stated that he wanted at least a 4.5" barrel, and no longer than a 5.5' barrel.
I am sort of in the same situation as the OP here, in that lately I have been feeling the need for a old west style revolver. Maybe its just because i have been playing an excessive amount of Red Dead Redemption lately, but the SAA design has started to grow on me.
I used to not really see what others saw in the SAA, I was always more of a fan of the Schofields and various cap and ball revolvers that came before it. To me, the SAA was just the generic cowboy gun that was overused in movies and television. But after staring at a nicely detailed video game recreation for a few hours on end it has started to grow on me.
I always thought about adding a Uberti Schofield to my collection, but they are hard to find and are pretty expensive, same with most of Uberti's guns in my area. I decided that if I ever do get a cowboy gun, it would be a Ruger New Vaquero in .357 with a 5.5" barrel. That's the length that seems to be the best compromise, and looks the best IMO. I have a good few .357's already, so there's no use in adding another hard to find and expensive caliber to my stable either (I'm talking about .45 Colt). I love my GP100 and my SP101, both are great guns, so I wouldn't hesitate on a Ruger NV.
Auto426 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gak
++1 on the "Montado." It's the "only" one mentioned that fills your bill on all accounts.
Not entirely, the OP stated that he wanted at least a 4.5" barrel, and no longer than a 5.5' barrel.
----
Note, my last line I added a EDIT at the end awhile ago (not my spelling correction just now) acknowledging. Still should be on his list of "look at's" - and may change his mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gak
++1 on the "Montado." It's the "only" one mentioned that fills your bill on all accounts.
Not entirely, the OP stated that he wanted at least a 4.5" barrel, and no longer than a 5.5' barrel.
----
Note, my last line I added a EDIT at the end awhile ago (not my spelling correction just now) acknowledging. Still should be on his list of "look at's" - and may change his mind.
H.W. French
New member
What to get?
AF-
That is a hefty list. At one time or another I have owned several of your choices. Vaquero, New Vaquero, USFA and Cimarron. As already stated the USFA and Cimarron would be cut due to no hammer-block safety. However Uberti, Cimarron's manufacturer, also produced the Beretta Stampede, which does have a hammer-block safety. You can usually find one on GunBroker for a really good price. The Vaquero and New Vaquero are both excellent choices. It seems a Vaquero in stainless will fill the bill as it will handle some beefier loads than the New Vaquero. Get a quality belt and holster. Your gonna need 'em to tame that weight.
If you can, try and heft as many as you can, they all feel different. Even though I like the Rugers a lot, the ones I ended up keeping were the Cimarrons because they just "felt" better.
Any of these should be well under your 700 limit, which is good. If you don't reload you will need those extra dollars. 45 "cowboy" loads are scarce around here. When you can find them (rare) they run about 37.00 per 50. Winchester SuperX is at 18.00 per 20.
AF-
That is a hefty list. At one time or another I have owned several of your choices. Vaquero, New Vaquero, USFA and Cimarron. As already stated the USFA and Cimarron would be cut due to no hammer-block safety. However Uberti, Cimarron's manufacturer, also produced the Beretta Stampede, which does have a hammer-block safety. You can usually find one on GunBroker for a really good price. The Vaquero and New Vaquero are both excellent choices. It seems a Vaquero in stainless will fill the bill as it will handle some beefier loads than the New Vaquero. Get a quality belt and holster. Your gonna need 'em to tame that weight.
If you can, try and heft as many as you can, they all feel different. Even though I like the Rugers a lot, the ones I ended up keeping were the Cimarrons because they just "felt" better.
Any of these should be well under your 700 limit, which is good. If you don't reload you will need those extra dollars. 45 "cowboy" loads are scarce around here. When you can find them (rare) they run about 37.00 per 50. Winchester SuperX is at 18.00 per 20.
The Montado hammer (also found on the 4.68" barrel "SASS SPECIAL" New Vaqueros) is the same hammer as the SuperBlackhawk, in terms of overall shape. The checkering pattern on the thumbpad is a bit different, with a little more "old west flavor" on the Montado version, but I like the original pattern SuperBlackhawk pattern the best.
SBH hammers are available at Brownell's for about $35 and if they need fitting at all, it's still usually an easy homebrew job. The SBH hammer has sideways grooves in the hammer pad face while the Montado is a bordered checker pattern. The reason I like the SBH hammer is that it allows the strong-side thumb to easily slip off the side of the hammer when the cocking stroke is finished, for faster strings of shots. But the Montado hammer isn't bad either and probably looks better to most people.
Again: both give you the same "thumb reach" and both are legal in CAS/SASS competition on Ruger Vaquero and New Vaquero guns even if they didn't ship that way stock.
My gun however is extremely "not SASS legal" for other reasons
. It's a mutant "street creature" of a defensive SA, and I believe one of the most effective combat SA revolvers ever brewed up .
SBH hammers are available at Brownell's for about $35 and if they need fitting at all, it's still usually an easy homebrew job. The SBH hammer has sideways grooves in the hammer pad face while the Montado is a bordered checker pattern. The reason I like the SBH hammer is that it allows the strong-side thumb to easily slip off the side of the hammer when the cocking stroke is finished, for faster strings of shots. But the Montado hammer isn't bad either and probably looks better to most people.
Again: both give you the same "thumb reach" and both are legal in CAS/SASS competition on Ruger Vaquero and New Vaquero guns even if they didn't ship that way stock.
My gun however is extremely "not SASS legal" for other reasons
. It's a mutant "street creature" of a defensive SA, and I believe one of the most effective combat SA revolvers ever brewed up .
AraneaeFatalis
New member
Whoa, got a lot of replies, didn't expect this. I'll have to read over everything when I get a bit more time. Thanks for all the replies.
I think I want to stay away from the original Vaquero due to the weight.
I was wanting to stick as close to a SAA as I could, but have some sort of hammer safety. I like the .45LC round mainly because it is the 'authentic' round of the old west where the SAA was born.
I doubt I will be doing any SASS, as I doubt there is anything close to me.
I love the look of the New Vaquero, and I can't seem to find a local gunshop that has any SA Revolvers aside from the .22lr revolver at Academy.
I've read up a bit on the '4 clicks' and I like how it works (mainly because that's how the original guns worked). If I decided to go with one that had this, and i decided it didn't matter if I had a hammer safety or not. Which brand would be best? I really like the USFA Rodeo II, but Uberti makes a Cattleman Pistol in an 'old' finish so it looks more 'old west' than normal finishes.
Sorry for all the questions, I wanna make sure I get the best gun for my money.
I'll read the rest of these posts within the next few days and reply again (and reply to the individual post if I can figure out how to quote..)
Thanks everyone!
I think I want to stay away from the original Vaquero due to the weight.
I was wanting to stick as close to a SAA as I could, but have some sort of hammer safety. I like the .45LC round mainly because it is the 'authentic' round of the old west where the SAA was born.
I doubt I will be doing any SASS, as I doubt there is anything close to me.
I love the look of the New Vaquero, and I can't seem to find a local gunshop that has any SA Revolvers aside from the .22lr revolver at Academy.
I've read up a bit on the '4 clicks' and I like how it works (mainly because that's how the original guns worked). If I decided to go with one that had this, and i decided it didn't matter if I had a hammer safety or not. Which brand would be best? I really like the USFA Rodeo II, but Uberti makes a Cattleman Pistol in an 'old' finish so it looks more 'old west' than normal finishes.
Sorry for all the questions, I wanna make sure I get the best gun for my money.
I'll read the rest of these posts within the next few days and reply again (and reply to the individual post if I can figure out how to quote..)
Thanks everyone!
If you decided you liked the four clicks action and feel better, USFA if you've got the jingle. The matte-finished Rodeo (I) isn't that far off most of the nicer-finished Italians. USFA makes an "old look" gun too--the Gunslinger--but they're charging a pretty penny for them...as much or more than their regular gloss blue/case hardened gun. If that look is your aim, get a Rodeo (I) and let it age naturally--use it and "abuse" it a lot--or accelerate the process with a DIY antique job--great platform for. If the budget's a bit less, the "Uberti" and Uberti-made Cimarron old-look guns are nicer, IMO, than the Beretta-Ubertis with the same (aged look) idea. The latter remind me a bit too much of some of the cheap Colt copies from the '60s that appeared painted. For some reason the Berettas decided to go a different route than the other Ubertis with the concept. If you're on a budget that precludes the USFAs and want a regular (gloss blue/CH) look--any of the Ubertis (including or maybe especially those from Cimarron and Taylors) or Piettas (EMF Great Westerns) will do the trick.
Jbar4Ranch
New member
AraneaeFatalis said:
On conventional SA's with the firing pin on the hammer, let the hammer down between cartridges.
Jbar4Ranch
New member
What...?
(edit) Ahh, California... never mind.
(edit) Ahh, California... never mind.
Last edited:
That's the way the old timers when I was growing up taught me and I still do it to this day. I'm 53 years old and have been shooting hammer mounted firing pins since I was 10 years old with never an accidental discharge and yes I load all six chambers the way Sam Colt intended.
Jbar4Ranch
New member
Even Colt's cap & balls were meant to be carried with all six loaded, hence the pin between chambers that the hammer indexed on. Repros are still made the same way today.
Jbar4Ranch
New member
On a Remington or Ruger Old Army, perhaps, but the pins on a Colt revolver were only marginally longer, if any, than the rim of a metallic cartridge.
FWIW, I carried a Colt SAA in 44 spl a couple years, and a different Colt SAA in 45 some, and they both would turn onto a live primer when carried with the firing pin between the rims of the shells. The holster was well fitted half flap, in other words, nothing was catching the hammer and allowing the cylinder to turn. I quit doing it and carried 5.
If anyone wants to carry that way, so be it, but it isn't just a wives tale about it being unsafe. Maybe it works for you, but I have had repeated instances of the cylinder turning when carried that way. How many times is enough to be unsafe?
I'd sooner carry a Colt SAA full up and the hammer on the first notch than with the firing pin between the rims of the shells.
....Meanwhile, back on topic, I have an early type Vaquero (and a Blackhawk) in 45 that I carry a fair bit. It doesnt seem heavy to me.
If anyone wants to carry that way, so be it, but it isn't just a wives tale about it being unsafe. Maybe it works for you, but I have had repeated instances of the cylinder turning when carried that way. How many times is enough to be unsafe?
I'd sooner carry a Colt SAA full up and the hammer on the first notch than with the firing pin between the rims of the shells.
....Meanwhile, back on topic, I have an early type Vaquero (and a Blackhawk) in 45 that I carry a fair bit. It doesnt seem heavy to me.
Last edited:
Out of your list I like the Vaquero. I have a 4 5/8 Blackhawk that I love. it is a great plinker and it's always on my side deer hunting. I'd get the Vaquero if you're set on fixed sights but I would really think about the Blackhawk. You should start handloading. .45 ammo ain't cheap unless you roll your own. You can load mild plinkers to wild hunting rounds for not much money. have fun, great round.
If you are going to go with the four clicks. (It is cool BTW) The USFA Rodeo or Rodeo II is hard to beat for the money. The fit, and function is the same as their higher priced pistols, they just have a less expensive finish, but if you're going to carry it and shoot it, then that shouldn't matter. I have a Rodeo and really like it.