Remind me why *** Someone*** would want an unfinished 80% Glock knock off...

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reddog81

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So you can spend another $200 on a slide, $100 on a barrel, $50 on a parts kits, $20 to $100 on sights and then end up with slapped together gun that looks like a generic Glock.
 
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shurshot

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No numbers, no background check. Expect a Federal ban on these in the near future. The Wrong people (Gangs and prohibited people), are buying them and AR kits in droves. Already outlawed in many States.
Many come in a kit, with jig, tools and simple instructions. Some decent and law abiding people just want to build a custom gun, a winter project or just want a spare gun. Plenty of Youtube videos will walk you through that last 20% with ease. Not that difficult.
For the prices listed, I would just get a genuine Glock for the reliability and quality. As far as a "Kit", I guess I would get more satisfaction out of building a muzzleloader.
 
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shurshot

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The issue is, with no serial numbers, you can't sell one. Suppose it gets stolen? How do you report it if its untraceable? And at that point possibly illegal when they are banned in the near future, so would you report it stolen??! Are you comfortable taking it to a range or to camp? You definitely don't want to carry it as a CCW, especially across State lines. Suppose you get stopped? Suppose you are in a car accident, and rendered unconscious and An EMT or Police find it? :confused: Not worth the trouble. Just buy the real thing and stay 100% legal, now and in the future.
The laws were designed decades ago pertaining to custom guns, muzzleloaders, etc. to be built by law abiding citizens as projects. No one envisioned Glock and AR weapons in 80% kit form being sold to gangbangers and other prohibited persons... which is now the case.
 
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TunnelRat

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From what I can tell some people like the idea of building their own firearm, even if it’s really just finishing off a frame with a jig. Some like the idea of owning an unregistered firearm.

I picked up an aftermarket POF P19 Glock frame (that is serialized) because it was cheaper and with less turnaround time than sending out my stock frame to add the double undercut to the trigger guard and accelerator cuts or whatever you want to call them to the frame (and those are features I like). I didn’t feel confident doing it myself on a serialized lower with a Dremel.

At the end of the day a lot of people make purchasing decisions that I don’t understand personally. The beauty of a free market is they can do that and if enough people want it then a market will spring up to support it, which it seems it has.


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TunnelRat

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shurshot said:
No one envisioned Glock and AR weapons in 80% kit form being sold to gangbangers and other prohibited persons... which is now the case.
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Can you link me to crime statistics that cover the use of 80% lowers?


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TunnelRat

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shurshot said:
Do you have Google? 60 minutes did a story on them awhile back if you are interested.
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Seeing as you’re the person making the claim, seems like you’d be the person to provide the link. That’s generally how a discussion works. And I mean more than a 60 Minutes story. I mean actual crime statistics from the FBI or similar (unless those are linked to or mentioned specifically in the video).

Now do I think this happens? Sure. Does it happen in “droves”? I’m kind of doubtful. You would need a cottage industry to do this on that scale. There are some videos on YouTube, but YouTube has also specifically added policies that disallow showing the production of a firearm, to the point where even part install videos have been taken down. Even with a video people still screw these up, so it does take some level of skill. Then you need the rest of the parts to complete the actual firearm (and as someone pointed out above buying these parts individually isn’t cheap). Hell for a while I couldn’t even get a slick lock lever for my Glock. They were sold out everywhere with the pandemic. I still can’t get the charging handle I want for my AR because again it’s sold out. For this to happen in “droves” we’d need more supply than what I’m seeing currently.

All of this seems like more work and time investment than just buying an illegal firearm or breaking into a home or vehicle and stealing a firearm. And whether you make it or steal it I’m pretty sure a felon cannot posses a firearm, so you’re breaking the law either way.


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TunnelRat

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The link tries to redirect me to Time, then that link says “Page Not Found”.


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shurshot

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The link works for me. ???
If you take exception to my use of the word "Droves"...? Ok, fine. I'm not going to get into a link / info contest because you are not up to date on the topic or interested in researching the matter yourself. If you want to buy a ghost gun, go for it. Just don't be surprised if it is deemed illegal in the future. Remember, they want ALL guns confiscated, one law at a time. Banning these is at the top of their Agenda.
 
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TunnelRat

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It’s not a link/info “contest” to ask someone to provide evidence to back up a claim they’ve made. I asked all of one time, then let you know the link didn’t work for me. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

As for me wanting one, I don’t. I sell my firearms too often for me to not be able to sell a firearm I manufactured for myself. Me not wanting one and me being dubious about the extent of the problem caused by these products is not mutually exclusive. I’m aware that the anonymous “they” want to ban a number of firearms. Creating a narrative that supports that goal is part of it, hence my tendency to skepticism when it comes to the coverage firearms get in the media.


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wild cat mccane

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Put another way. A guy on a dedicated gun forum with 4K posts asked why someone would want to make an unserialed gun.

Put that way, you can start to see the majorities opinion on wanting them gone as they aren't mostly hobbie guns if the purpose to have an unserialed gun isn't immediately beneficial or obvious.

Total purpose is to circumvent the law for someone who clearly isn't a gun manufacturer.

Interesting tid bit. In the American revolution, 90% of all guns in the war were brought to us by our ally France. Hence Lafayette square and Lafayette statue in front of the white house. Make one's own gun isn't a time honored "originalist" activity in the US.
 
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TunnelRat

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wild cat mccane said:
Interesting tid bit. In the American revolution, 90% of all guns in the war were brought to us by our ally France. Hence Lafayette square and Lafayette statue in front of the white house. Make one's own gun isn't a time honored "originalist" activity in the US.
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That may well be true, but at this point in time I don’t see the French supporting another American Revolution given it won’t have a major impact on one of their greatest rivals as we’re no longer a British colony. So whether it was or wasn’t a big factor in the Revolution is, to me, besides the point in this particular discussion as no one has yet argued about it being a time honored tradition essential to the formation of this nation. I also have no problem giving the French their due. We won the Revolution because of their help. I don’t see that as germane to someone buying and completing an 80% lower.


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shurshot

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cb...weapons-criminal-cases-60-minutes-2020-05-10/

Hopefully this works.

And these kits are often offered with everything needed, ALL parts, with JIG and tools. Prices currently are as much or more than an actual Glock. I considered and researched one myself until I weighed out all the aforementioned negatives... and price. I couldn't justify the potential legal problems or aftermarket parts for the prices they are asking. I went with an actual Glock 20 in 10mm. 100% legal and reliable... for now. No telling next year. :rolleyes:
 
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stinkeypete

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I built a pair of ARs from a pair of FFL registered receivers so I could learn about how every part works and to pick every part. Once looking at the receivers, I longed for the days when I had a fully equipped machine shop because a receiver made from bar stock would be unique. Then I longed for a nice shop to work composite materials because I speculated that making a mold for a receiver to make a carbon/composite receiver would be even easier. Why? To learn if I could make something I was interested in. I like making things.

Considering how many parts Glock fanboys can switch out for fun, there isn’t much left that is stock for the hardcore parts swapper. An 80% receiver and jig pretty much guarantee than anyone competent with tools can get a functional receiver with a small shop in a reasonable amount of time. With more skill, better tools and more time one could do this from scratch. If you have a small club, sharing the expense of the jig, tools and learning curve might make for an enjoyable winter project.

The real joke is the 80% Sig P320 receiver. I bet I could finish one with a hand drill and a set of files from Harbor Freight.

I am very sure that selling your finished receiver is a huge felony. Giving it away might be a problem and personally I would scrap any receiver I made before risking any violation.

I am pretty sure that there is a federal tax on completed firearms that manufactures must pay. A long time ago I asked a manufacturer why I could buy a completed upper and completed lower for less than the cost of the identical similar model and he said there was a tax and while I could of course complete the rifle without issue, I should not sell the completed rifle or technically I would owe tax. Yes, common sense tells you it’s one pin...

But then how the heck is that little piece of bent metal a sig 320 receiver? It would be more complicated to make an office binder clip than that thing!

On the other side of the argument, I am thinking of an idiot kid I know that not only lost his rights to own a firearm but proved to me he’s incompetent to own one... yeah, that idiot has friends that are dumb enough to make one for him.
 
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