Not all WWII M1911A1s would be vintage.
Only those made after the Casablanca Conference are vintage.
Relying on vintage firearms for SD/EDC
- Thread starter SIGSHR
- Start date
Only those made after the Casablanca Conference are vintage.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
As a 1911 aficionado, I might argue that a Glock has a poor grip-frame angle, but a lot of people carry Glocks every day. A Tokarev will kill someone just as dead as any small-ish handgun in any of a number of small-ish calibers.SIGSHR said:
In reality (IMHO) there is no such thing as a "poor" grip-frame angle. There is only "different." Muscle memory is the issue. If you are accustomed to shooting a [___] and you then pick up a pistol with a different grip-frame angle, it will be more difficult for you to shoot accurately ... and least, until your mind and your muscles have had enough exposure to that firearm to adjust to the new (to you) grip-frame angle.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Springs don't need to be replaced fairly often.
This is an Internet myth.
Unless the gun is a specialty firearm designed to "use up" springs, most never need replacing unless they are rusted.
This is an Internet myth.
Unless the gun is a specialty firearm designed to "use up" springs, most never need replacing unless they are rusted.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Time out!Eindecker said:
Both Charter Arms and Amrscor are first-class manufacturers of quality, serviceable firearms. They are made of the same grade of steel used by most of the "name" firearms manufacturers for similar types of firearms. Charter and Armscor absolutely do not belong in the same category with Jennings/Bryco, which are cheap, pot metal, "Saturday night special" firearms.
Amen to that. My Rock Island has been trouble free since 2011 with well over 5000 rounds through it. I'll put it up against anybody's 1911 for function and reliability with any ammo and it will take a rest to tell any difference in accuracy.
And do they say "needs" to be replaced (as in must be replaced?) or do they recommend replacement after 5,000 rounds?
There's more that a bit of difference between those two...
I saw one "modern, post 1990 semi auto" that stated the gun was worn out at 5,000 rounds and needed to be returned to the maker for replacement.
I also have "vintage" Army manual for my "vintage" 1911A1 where there is NO mention of spring replacement at any round count. Springs are to be replaced when they fail to function, or get too short, or become damaged. That's it.
This is a good reason to think about what you carry. If I am carrying an older gun, it is one that is not something I would be torn up to loss. I would not carry my WW2 era Colt 1911A1, the gun has been 100% reliable so far, but it would kill me to have it sit in some evidence locker rusting away.
armoredman
New member
So, I guess this is right out, then, eh? Even though it is newly manufactured, not from Germany, plenty of parts available and was extremely well designed for its era...seems to meet all the requirements...
But the little Interarms Rossi 38 Special snubbie, a very well made stainless steel revolver, since the manufacturer no longer supplies parts, and is an "off brand", is right out the window?
Hmm, not buying this as a blanket thing. When I worked in a gun shop/indoor, I saw many guns fail, including the vaunted Glock, and some that just kept on chugging along, like the CZ 83 in .380. I watched HK USP, (first gen), fail so badly that out of the six we started with on the rental range, one year later we were down to only one while the others were back at HK. On the other hand, the often poorly thought of Ruger P-85 kept running like a champ, and NO guns are as abused as range rental guns.
But the little Interarms Rossi 38 Special snubbie, a very well made stainless steel revolver, since the manufacturer no longer supplies parts, and is an "off brand", is right out the window?
Hmm, not buying this as a blanket thing. When I worked in a gun shop/indoor, I saw many guns fail, including the vaunted Glock, and some that just kept on chugging along, like the CZ 83 in .380. I watched HK USP, (first gen), fail so badly that out of the six we started with on the rental range, one year later we were down to only one while the others were back at HK. On the other hand, the often poorly thought of Ruger P-85 kept running like a champ, and NO guns are as abused as range rental guns.
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oldbear1950
New member
Some folks would consider my UBERTI el patron , copy of the COLT single action army as vintage.
I carry that thing all the time, when I travel it goes along, in the woods, yep, is my go along tote gun
I carry that thing all the time, when I travel it goes along, in the woods, yep, is my go along tote gun
Mike Irwin
Staff
"2. Nothing made in Germany or German occupied countries 1942-1945."
So.... Japanese Nambu Type 94 is fine because EVERYONE knows that they were just cuddly misunderstood saviors helping Asia throw off the Western Imperial yoke...
Jesus wept...
I have a Viz 35 Radom that was made under German occupation probably around 1942.
I would most definitely trust that gun for self defense.
"1. Nothing from a long vanished manufacturer with spare parts either extremely scarce or non-existent."
Well that's sort of silly. You're not going to replace a part in the middle of a firefight on any gun, so the availability of spare parts is really a complete and total non starter as far as suitability for self defense is concerned.
If the gun does malfunction and you can't get spare parts, that's when you retire it.
"Nothing with poor ergonomics, say poor grip-frame angle-the Tokarev, e.g. , difficult to engage safety-the Mauser 1914/1934, the CZ-27, perhaps heel clip magazines."
So.... who is the Grand Arbiter of Ergonomic Suitability?
"I, the Grand Arbiter, hereby declare the following pistols as being completely unsuitable for self defense, and further declare that no one shall carry them under pain of taunting!"
Sounds like the start of a Monty Python skit.
Whether or not a gun is ergonomically suitable is 100% a personal choice. To try to make a blanket statement about it is the height of silly.
So.... Japanese Nambu Type 94 is fine because EVERYONE knows that they were just cuddly misunderstood saviors helping Asia throw off the Western Imperial yoke...
Jesus wept...
I have a Viz 35 Radom that was made under German occupation probably around 1942.
I would most definitely trust that gun for self defense.
"1. Nothing from a long vanished manufacturer with spare parts either extremely scarce or non-existent."
Well that's sort of silly. You're not going to replace a part in the middle of a firefight on any gun, so the availability of spare parts is really a complete and total non starter as far as suitability for self defense is concerned.
If the gun does malfunction and you can't get spare parts, that's when you retire it.
"Nothing with poor ergonomics, say poor grip-frame angle-the Tokarev, e.g. , difficult to engage safety-the Mauser 1914/1934, the CZ-27, perhaps heel clip magazines."
So.... who is the Grand Arbiter of Ergonomic Suitability?
"I, the Grand Arbiter, hereby declare the following pistols as being completely unsuitable for self defense, and further declare that no one shall carry them under pain of taunting!"
Sounds like the start of a Monty Python skit.
Whether or not a gun is ergonomically suitable is 100% a personal choice. To try to make a blanket statement about it is the height of silly.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Just because something works now, doesn’t mean that thing works tomorrow."
Yet the premise is that only older guns are subject to that dictum?
New guns are 100% reliable and will never break or fail in any way...
Until they become old?
Just when does a gun become "old" and thus immediately mechanically suspect?
5 years?
10 years?
10 years, 3 days, 11 hours, and 7 minutes?
Sounds like the start of another Monty Python sketch.
Yet the premise is that only older guns are subject to that dictum?
New guns are 100% reliable and will never break or fail in any way...
Until they become old?
Just when does a gun become "old" and thus immediately mechanically suspect?
5 years?
10 years?
10 years, 3 days, 11 hours, and 7 minutes?
Sounds like the start of another Monty Python sketch.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Well, I see an awful lot of well-maintained firearms in my shop. Just saying. Many of the older guns I see in my shop are poorly designed or poorly manufactured."
Funny, I've seen some absolutely abysmally designed and manufactured firearms of recent manufacture, as well.
The Zip .22, Ravens, Phoenix, Davis, IMIs, AMTs, RGs, Rohms...
But, apparently, because they're not "old" (insert completely arbitrary cutoff date here) they're perfectly fine and wonderful choices for... something.
Funny, I've seen some absolutely abysmally designed and manufactured firearms of recent manufacture, as well.
The Zip .22, Ravens, Phoenix, Davis, IMIs, AMTs, RGs, Rohms...
But, apparently, because they're not "old" (insert completely arbitrary cutoff date here) they're perfectly fine and wonderful choices for... something.
I tend to stick to new stuff for SD / EDC, simply because the modern pocket rockets are superior pistols for self defense vs. much of the older stuff. I kinda like the fact that a 15 round mag just about doubles the weight of my G19. Perhaps a bit hyperbolic, i have not weighed each.
I also like slipping the little LCP in my pocket, there is no golden oldie that exceeds it's combination of size, weight, and power.
I do have a couple oldies that I would carry if I needed a substitute.
The PA-63, at one time it was about the least expensive auto pistol around, not great, but decent and goes bang every time.
The CZ82 could also get the nod, it has the best trigger for a milsurp.
Both are in 9mm Mak. Hornaday makes a decent SD round. There are likely others now, pretty sure Hornaday was first with 9mm Makarov.
I did pick up an SCCY lately, I need to get it to the range.
I also like slipping the little LCP in my pocket, there is no golden oldie that exceeds it's combination of size, weight, and power.
I do have a couple oldies that I would carry if I needed a substitute.
The PA-63, at one time it was about the least expensive auto pistol around, not great, but decent and goes bang every time.
The CZ82 could also get the nod, it has the best trigger for a milsurp.
Both are in 9mm Mak. Hornaday makes a decent SD round. There are likely others now, pretty sure Hornaday was first with 9mm Makarov.
I did pick up an SCCY lately, I need to get it to the range.