Relying on vintage firearms for SD/EDC

stuckinthe60s

New member
vintage. I thought it meant (aged.) ya know, like wine? the older it gets, the better or more popular it becomes? popular, (liked) not a failure.
just a little bobski KISS theory here.
id call that the....vintage class of firearms. (aged and desired)
 

44caliberkid

New member
My P38 was made by Spreewerk late in the war, probably 1943. Some surfaces are pretty rough but it is very reliable and as accurate as most military 9mm’s. It would be an unusual choice for me to carry for defense, but I wouldn’t be worried about it failing me.
I also have a 1918 Luger and a Walther PPK, both Nazi marked. I wouldn’t carry the Luger because of the collector value, I would carry the Walther, but I have other less valuable 32’s I could pack if so desired, but neither of those pistols has ever had a failure to feed or fire.
I carry revolvers 95% of the time. A Charter Bulldog 44 Special that is over 45 years old and a Smith Model 66, 2.5 inch, that was made in the 80’s. Only semi auto I occasionally carry is a S&W Shield. I carried a 1911 when I was on duty and still would if I was intentionally going in harms way.
 

reddog81

New member
I have holsters for them and have carried a couple of vintage guns before. It's kind of neat being able to put a 100+ year old gun back into use. My Colt 1903's are just as reliable as a lot of guns being made today. I was considering one of the new Springfield Prodigies until it was released and it sounds like failure to feeds are pretty much par for the course on this $1,500 gun. Of course I won't argue that the Colt is a better carry gun over my Sig P395.

My old S&W revolvers are just as reliable as their modern counterparts. Just about any part for any common gun can be found with a little bit of searching.

FWIW you can put more wear and tear on a gun in one day of heavy use compared to the amount of use many of my vintage guns have seen in the last 100 years. Just because something is newer doesn't mean it hasn't been used and abused. A lot of the "upgrades" going into newer models is just a cheaper way to make a part.
 

Paul B.

New member
I would venture a guess that it would all depend on what was in your hand at the moment of need. Normal carry for me is a Colt Commander with an S&W M60 as a bug. Two spare mags for the Colt and two speed loaders for the M60. That's normal every day carry. The exceptions to the rule could mean anything from a Colt single action to a Manhurin Walther PP in .32 ACP or anything in between. Whatever works. Try to keep proficient with whatever you're using.
Paul B.
 

stuckinthe60s

New member
since the Op's title was 'relying on' vintage arms, I would add that a concern with metal fatigue and age is a crucial factor in relying on an old gun.
those in aviation understand the boneyard concept, to be a place where old aircraft are retired since the service life of the parts has been reached and the airframe has met its limit for safety.
down at the molecule level is where the concern needs to be focused, much like welders that have their work inspected with x-ray.
old vintage guns in some cases may have reached their limit and are just waiting to fail, putting you in harms way.
heck, when I was in the teams, the sig226 had a rebuild cycle of 20,000 rounds to avoid frame cracks...and at 100,000 rounds it was sent back to the factory and replaced.
old unserviceable rifles in ww1/2 had their bbls welded closed or cut and the bolts bent to discourage owners from reviving dangerous arms.
I collected 1974 Winchester sxm1 shotguns. brand NIB guns failed right out of the box just from sitting. so you cant use the NIB title and be safe either.
as I was taught in corrosion control training in military aviation, 'metal is
constantly returning to its natural state and can only be delayed.'
when you run your hands along a vintage gun at a gun show....do you REALLY know the round count or how abused it may be? some gamble. some don't.
its a crap shoot.
but count me in to depend on old iron, than new...or plastic/alloys.
ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
amen.
 
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44 AMP

Staff
old vintage guns in some cases may have reached their limit and are just waiting to fail, putting you in harms way.

And other old vintage guns might have just been sitting around lightly used and reasonably well cared for.

I collected 1974 Winchester sxm1 shotguns. brand NIB guns failed right out of the box just from sitting.

This begs the question, how do you know they weren't already "failed" when they got put in the box?

If something breaks the very first time it is used, it might not have broken in the box, but it had already "Failed" when it went into the box, its just that no one knew it, then.
 

Nodak1858

New member
I carry a TT33 in my rotation, and no reason not to, it's thin, functions and I shoot it well.
I also carry a CZ82, Polish P64 as well when the weather returns colder and can use more layers to conceal. Any of these I have no problems depending on. In summer with shorts my go to is a LCP in my pocket.
 

Scorch

New member
Well, I see an awful lot of well-maintained firearms in my shop. Just saying. Many of the older guns I see in my shop are poorly designed or poorly manufactured. Same as many old millitary arms. They may have been great at one time, just remember that most Europeans or Asians do not consider a pistol a combat weapon, it is a symbol of authority. As such, it is unlikely to ever actually be fired. Also remember that the person who carried that gun into battle did not have a choice, he was told to carry it or else. No, guns are like any durable good, they have a life expectancy and when they reach that life expectancy they are surplused out. So that really cool old warhorse you bought has already run its last race.
 

amd6547

New member
My very first centerfire self defense pistol was a German produced Polish Radom 9mm. It was worn and pitted, and looked like it had been through a war…because it had!
It worked perfectly, and I felt pretty well armed with it.
As for the OP, I’m not sure why the Tokarev is singled out. A simplified Browning with a storied history of working in the toughest conditions. The grip is a plus for me. The pistol points well for me, and you won’t find a full size service pistol as thin, with a compact grip.
I’ve fired mine out to 80yds with good result. It’s a Romanian made in 1953, and it has occasionally filled the role of car pistol.
 

44 AMP

Staff
1. Nothing from a long vanished manufacturer with spare parts either extremely scarce or non-existent.
2. Nothing made in Germany or German occupied countries 1942-1945.
3. Nothing with poor ergonomics, say poor grip-frame angle-the Tokarev, e.g. , difficult to engage safety-the Mauser 1914/1934, the CZ-27, perhaps heel clip magazines.
4. Nothing exotic-Mauser Broomhandle. e.g.

The OP doesn't identify who came up with this list, and it doesn't matter, really. Its simply a list of one person's OPINIONS about what one should not rely on for EDC/SD

I can see the logic to some of the points. Other's leave me baffled. My take away is that these are one person's opinion about what you should not choose. no one said they didn't or couldn't work, just that if you have the choice, pistols on that list should not be Chosen.
 

Mainah

New member
I wish I could, but all the 2" and 3" K-frames are being hoarded by other members of this forum. You know who you are.

Guilty, but after reading through this thread it turns out that I might not survive much longer since I rely on a 1965 K-frame snub. So keep an eye on Gunbroker!
 

jar

New member
Guilty, but after reading through this thread it turns out that I might not survive much longer since I rely on a 1965 K-frame snub. So keep an eye on Gunbroker!
Don't worry. Your not in danger. A gun made in 1965 is nowhere close to being vintage. Why it's not even grown up yet.
 

stinkeypete

New member
Scorch, although I love him, misses the head of the nail and dents the hardwood.
He sees well maintained vintage firearms that are designed poorly.
He says he wouldn’t use them because they are old.
i say I would not because they are poorly designed.

There are plenty of poorly designed firearms built just this morning.
Plenty of firearms that are old that are fantastic.

I wonder, when was the 1911 designed? The Peacemaker? Bolt action rifles in 30-06?
 

ChimpMunk20

New member
No such thing as too old as long as it functions and uses cartridges rather than BP and caps. I have sometimes carried a 1935 Beretta dated 1944 but some on here have carried guns a lot older than that.
 

chaim

New member
I would be reluctant from using "vintage" guns for a few reasons (many already mentioned or addressed by the limits posed in your question, but still part of my thinking)...

1. I am a history teacher. Long before I was a history teacher, I was a huge history buff. If I owned a piece of history, I'd take care of it. I'd be sickened by regular holster wear (maybe something more pedestrian, a well used duty K-frame that already had a lot of holster wear would alleviate this concern). I'd really be upset by any damage taken by the gun after a defensive shoot that may happen when it was (temporarily) confiscated by police. Then there is always the chance it will be misplaced or for some other reason isn't returned to you in a timely manner after a good defensive shoot. In fact, it is for this possibility that I generally don't carry anything very expensive for CCW or set it up for home defense (I even find myself using my S&W revolvers less and less). This is magnified with a gun with actual historical significance, such as a Nazi marked gun or a 1911 that a GI carried in WWI or WWII.

2. Some older semi-auto designs were less reliable than modern designs.

3. Other than a 1911 or S&W revolver that are still in production, finding CCW holsters may be quite difficult. Forget about night sights.

4. Even some modern guns (like a 3rd gen S&W) that are no longer in production can be difficult to find parts for when you need them. Even without major issues, springs need to be replaced fairly regularly if you shoot a gun often.


Now a classic style gun, a 1911 or DA revolver (or even a SA revolver) for instance, but current/recent production, why not if that is your preference and you train with it.
 
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