Quick poll Californians -- How many are leaving?? How many are staying??
- Thread starter Jack 99
- Start date
- Status
I lived in California from 1987-1997. I voted for pro-gun candidates in the state and federal elections. If I remember correctly, almost all were Republicans. I remember voting for George Deukmejian for governor because he was supposedly pro-Second Amendment. But he stabbed gun owners in the back when the final version of the Roos-Roberti semi-auto ban ended up on his desk and, conveniently for the gun grabbers, Patrick Purdy shot up a Stockton school yard.
I also remember when a Republican assemblyman named Charles Quackenbush was the lone remaining vote needed to pass the Roos version of the semi-auto ban. Quackenbush caved in and voted for the ban because he asked that Roos remove a Benelli shotgun from the list of banned guns. Roos did that.
I remember voting for George Bush as president in 1988 because he was supposedly a pro-gun candidate who joined the NRA and said during the Republican convention that he believed people should be able to own a gun in order to protect themselves. Then, about two months after he's inaugurated as president, he bans the importation of military-style semi-automatic rifles.
I remember hearing that Republican senator Bob Dole was pro-gun in his views. But he stabbed gun owners in the back when, late at night and with only a few people in the Senate chambers, he shook hands with Demo senator George Mitchell and the Brady Bill was passed in the US Senate.
No disrespect meant here to the fine California gun owners who choose to stay in California, but where did my efforts on the political front lead to?
I live in in a pro-gun state now. I like having the air of liberty here (and in other similar states) that no longer exists, in the main, in the People's Republic of Kalifornia.
Sorry to sound annoyed. It's just that I loved living in California before it turned crummy.
I also remember when a Republican assemblyman named Charles Quackenbush was the lone remaining vote needed to pass the Roos version of the semi-auto ban. Quackenbush caved in and voted for the ban because he asked that Roos remove a Benelli shotgun from the list of banned guns. Roos did that.
I remember voting for George Bush as president in 1988 because he was supposedly a pro-gun candidate who joined the NRA and said during the Republican convention that he believed people should be able to own a gun in order to protect themselves. Then, about two months after he's inaugurated as president, he bans the importation of military-style semi-automatic rifles.
I remember hearing that Republican senator Bob Dole was pro-gun in his views. But he stabbed gun owners in the back when, late at night and with only a few people in the Senate chambers, he shook hands with Demo senator George Mitchell and the Brady Bill was passed in the US Senate.
No disrespect meant here to the fine California gun owners who choose to stay in California, but where did my efforts on the political front lead to?
I live in in a pro-gun state now. I like having the air of liberty here (and in other similar states) that no longer exists, in the main, in the People's Republic of Kalifornia.
Sorry to sound annoyed. It's just that I loved living in California before it turned crummy.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Oberkommando: Flat? Whadja do, drive through Amarillo on I-40 and now you know all Texas' geography? 
Being down toward the tail end of the Rocky Mountain chain, our mountains don't have the grandeur of Mt. Whitney and suchlike. But I look from my house toward a mountain about 15 miles away, and the top is a mile higher in elevation.
But we got better fishin' on the Gulf...
Art
Being down toward the tail end of the Rocky Mountain chain, our mountains don't have the grandeur of Mt. Whitney and suchlike. But I look from my house toward a mountain about 15 miles away, and the top is a mile higher in elevation.
But we got better fishin' on the Gulf...
Art
I am a (multi-generational) CA native who now lives in the South. My folks are getting older and would like me around (a lot) more. My siblings and their spouses and their kids all live there. I really miss the place. Would I ever move back? Highly unlikely with the current political climate. It makes me both sad and angry. There is a saying: "As goes California, so goes the nation". I pray that it ain't so.
Art is right, send for a travel guide for Texas, you will soon see this state has almost every thing anybody wants, except giant Red Woods. Alvin Tx has the largest Live Oak.
I spent about a year in Calif, while in the Navy in 63, it is beautiful but even then the traffic sucked. And now?
So much for my babble. I do feel for you all in Kalif with all the Bull S#!t. Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you.
------------------
"Defiance"
And yet...it moves
(Galileo Galilie)
I spent about a year in Calif, while in the Navy in 63, it is beautiful but even then the traffic sucked. And now?
So much for my babble. I do feel for you all in Kalif with all the Bull S#!t. Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you.
------------------
"Defiance"
And yet...it moves
(Galileo Galilie)
My wife and I are leaving when I retire and my daughter is in college (about ten years). I am a native Californian and my wife is from Pennsylvania.
We don't know where. Texas, Arizona, Idaho and the Southeast have been discussed.
There's just too many people here who all want to live in the same few places. Too many people come here, too many people here have too many children. Everyone who comes here expects a better life than the one they left, as an entitlement. Tax money that should go to local governments for streets and sewers are diverted to one of the most corrupt state legislatures in the nation. Money is the only god the politicians in Sacramento worship.
Sorry. Born here and seen it get worse every day for about the last forty years.
See you in a non-socialist state sometime, I hope,
Ledbetter
We don't know where. Texas, Arizona, Idaho and the Southeast have been discussed.
There's just too many people here who all want to live in the same few places. Too many people come here, too many people here have too many children. Everyone who comes here expects a better life than the one they left, as an entitlement. Tax money that should go to local governments for streets and sewers are diverted to one of the most corrupt state legislatures in the nation. Money is the only god the politicians in Sacramento worship.
Sorry. Born here and seen it get worse every day for about the last forty years.
See you in a non-socialist state sometime, I hope,
Ledbetter
Mendocino,
Left Calif. in 1992 and setteled in Coeur d'Alene, happier than a pig in poop. I'm a native Californian but after 45 years of watching the state go to heck in a handbasket
I could stand no more. Got a license to build
a building and move my business in 30 minutes flat. About that drive to Spokane to the airport, in December and January it takes a while because of the fog and icy roads. This
place is gun heaven, ccw's at the snap of your fingers and machineguns everywhere. Our
politicians will sit and have a meal with you and listen to YOUR problems and act on them.
US. Senator Larry Craig attended the Friends of the NRA banquet here in Coeur d'Alene last week and gave a nice speech, try getting one of the Senators from Calif. to do that!
Contact me the next time you're in town and I'll arrange some time to show you the places the locals like to keep for themselves. The number at the plant(Pro Load Ammunition) is
(208) 773-9444
Regards, John Koppel
Left Calif. in 1992 and setteled in Coeur d'Alene, happier than a pig in poop. I'm a native Californian but after 45 years of watching the state go to heck in a handbasket
I could stand no more. Got a license to build
a building and move my business in 30 minutes flat. About that drive to Spokane to the airport, in December and January it takes a while because of the fog and icy roads. This
place is gun heaven, ccw's at the snap of your fingers and machineguns everywhere. Our
politicians will sit and have a meal with you and listen to YOUR problems and act on them.
US. Senator Larry Craig attended the Friends of the NRA banquet here in Coeur d'Alene last week and gave a nice speech, try getting one of the Senators from Calif. to do that!
Contact me the next time you're in town and I'll arrange some time to show you the places the locals like to keep for themselves. The number at the plant(Pro Load Ammunition) is
(208) 773-9444
Regards, John Koppel
MP Freeman
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KaMaKaZe:
Next Poll:
How many aren't moving to California?
[/quote]
I'm in Indiana now, and will never move to Kali. Been there and left ASAP. Vermont looks nice.
Next Poll:
How many aren't moving to California?
[/quote]
I'm in Indiana now, and will never move to Kali. Been there and left ASAP. Vermont looks nice.
John K,
I think you tried to sell me some ammo once at a gun show in CD'A. Nice to see your little venure took off. I think that would've been '93 or so and I was in college in Moscow but came up to see my dad and I hit the show. You were using Hornandy bullets at the time and claiming exceptional accuracy. Ring a bell or am I thinking of someone else?
CD'A is a great area.
I think you tried to sell me some ammo once at a gun show in CD'A. Nice to see your little venure took off. I think that would've been '93 or so and I was in college in Moscow but came up to see my dad and I hit the show. You were using Hornandy bullets at the time and claiming exceptional accuracy. Ring a bell or am I thinking of someone else?
CD'A is a great area.
I lived in Calif. from 1967-1988. Was in to fishing more than guns, but I could sense walls closing around me as a free citizen. I
bailed when they had another one of those never-ending increases in smog restrictions.
I don't think this next is worth a seperate thread, even though we're getting close to the cutoff point, but it is a good example of the self-delusion now going on there. "So what if I'm slowly losing my freedom? My 401K is doing great!"
STORY
State Voters See Only Blue Skies
John Wildermuth, Chronicle Political Writer
Times have never been better for California voters, who say in record numbers that the nation and the state are cruising along in the right direction.
More than two-thirds of the voters surveyed in a new Field Poll believe that things are going right for the country, up from 54 percent who felt the same way last year. Only 25 percent think the United States is on the wrong track, compared to 37 percent in the 1999 survey.
"This is the biggest number we've seen since we started asking the question in 1988," said Mark DiCamillo, director of the Field Poll. "This question is used as a general gauge of public satisfaction and it's an unambiguous reply."
The poll shows that satisfaction extends across the demographic spectrum - from age to gender to religion to economic status. Even 58 percent of the people not in the labor force, either unemployed or not working by choice, think things are going great in the United States.
Among all the subgroups, the only blip on the good-times radar screen is a political one. Voters who support the Republican ticket of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney have only a 46-to-43 percent favorable view of the way things are going, while 48 percent of conservative voters think life in America is on the skids, compared to 43 percent who believe things are fine.
"It's likely that those views are being held mainly for political reasons," DiCamillo said.
"How's it going?" is the ultimate political question, as then-President George Bush found out in 1992. With the country in the depths of a recession, 82 percent of California voters thought the United States was going down the wrong track, compared to 16 percent who believed the country should 'stay the course,' as Bush suggested.
A few months later, Bush was out, replaced by Democrat Bill Clinton.
The public's buoyant mood is probably bad news for George W. Bush, who is faced with the thankless task of convincing voters that things really aren't as good as they seem.
"It's a lot easier to tell people that if they don't throw the bums out the country will go to hell in a hand basket," admitted Sal Russo, a veteran GOP consultant. "Since people are complacent, he (Bush) has to start talking about the bad things that (Democratic nominee) Al Gore will do."
Ebullient Democrats are convinced that won't work.
"Republicans in California are seen like the neighbor's dog that won't stop barking," said Bob Mulholland, a state party spokesman. "Anyone arguing for change right now should see a psychiatrist."
The poll shows that 82 percent of the Democrats and 88 percent of the voters who style themselves as liberal are pleased with the country's direction. Those supporting the Democratic ticket, however, see bright skies ahead by a staggering 90 percent to 5 percent.
The good feelings in California run wide and deep, the poll shows. While 76 percent of upper-income voters, those with a household income of more than $75,000 per year, like the way things are going, 63 percent of those earning less than $40,000 feel the same way.
There is little difference among voters of different ages. The highest positive feelings, 70 percent, are found among the youngest voters, ages 18 to 39. But even among voters 60 and older - typically more conservative - 65 percent have only good feelings about the future.
A Gallup Poll released this week shows that, nationally, 63 percent of the people pronounce themselves satisfied with the country's progress, while 33 percent feel things should be better.
"Our poll numbers are more optimistic than any other numbers I've seen published,'' DiCamillo said. ""Californians are clearly more optimistic about the way the country is going."
The feelings about California's future are similar, if not quite so ecstatic. Among registered voters, 58 percent think the state is doing well, compared to 35 percent who see it heading down the wrong track. While that's the highest positive number ever record by the Field Poll, it's only slightly different from last year's 52 percent to 34 percent.
The survey is based on a random survey of 505 registered California voters and was conducted Aug. 18 through Aug. 22. The margin of error is 4.5 percent in either direction.
E-mail John Wildermuth at jwildermuth@sfchronicle.com
©2000 San Francisco Chronicle SectionsDatebookCommentaryNewsSportsBusiness
bailed when they had another one of those never-ending increases in smog restrictions.
I don't think this next is worth a seperate thread, even though we're getting close to the cutoff point, but it is a good example of the self-delusion now going on there. "So what if I'm slowly losing my freedom? My 401K is doing great!"
STORY
State Voters See Only Blue Skies
John Wildermuth, Chronicle Political Writer
Times have never been better for California voters, who say in record numbers that the nation and the state are cruising along in the right direction.
More than two-thirds of the voters surveyed in a new Field Poll believe that things are going right for the country, up from 54 percent who felt the same way last year. Only 25 percent think the United States is on the wrong track, compared to 37 percent in the 1999 survey.
"This is the biggest number we've seen since we started asking the question in 1988," said Mark DiCamillo, director of the Field Poll. "This question is used as a general gauge of public satisfaction and it's an unambiguous reply."
The poll shows that satisfaction extends across the demographic spectrum - from age to gender to religion to economic status. Even 58 percent of the people not in the labor force, either unemployed or not working by choice, think things are going great in the United States.
Among all the subgroups, the only blip on the good-times radar screen is a political one. Voters who support the Republican ticket of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney have only a 46-to-43 percent favorable view of the way things are going, while 48 percent of conservative voters think life in America is on the skids, compared to 43 percent who believe things are fine.
"It's likely that those views are being held mainly for political reasons," DiCamillo said.
"How's it going?" is the ultimate political question, as then-President George Bush found out in 1992. With the country in the depths of a recession, 82 percent of California voters thought the United States was going down the wrong track, compared to 16 percent who believed the country should 'stay the course,' as Bush suggested.
A few months later, Bush was out, replaced by Democrat Bill Clinton.
The public's buoyant mood is probably bad news for George W. Bush, who is faced with the thankless task of convincing voters that things really aren't as good as they seem.
"It's a lot easier to tell people that if they don't throw the bums out the country will go to hell in a hand basket," admitted Sal Russo, a veteran GOP consultant. "Since people are complacent, he (Bush) has to start talking about the bad things that (Democratic nominee) Al Gore will do."
Ebullient Democrats are convinced that won't work.
"Republicans in California are seen like the neighbor's dog that won't stop barking," said Bob Mulholland, a state party spokesman. "Anyone arguing for change right now should see a psychiatrist."
The poll shows that 82 percent of the Democrats and 88 percent of the voters who style themselves as liberal are pleased with the country's direction. Those supporting the Democratic ticket, however, see bright skies ahead by a staggering 90 percent to 5 percent.
The good feelings in California run wide and deep, the poll shows. While 76 percent of upper-income voters, those with a household income of more than $75,000 per year, like the way things are going, 63 percent of those earning less than $40,000 feel the same way.
There is little difference among voters of different ages. The highest positive feelings, 70 percent, are found among the youngest voters, ages 18 to 39. But even among voters 60 and older - typically more conservative - 65 percent have only good feelings about the future.
A Gallup Poll released this week shows that, nationally, 63 percent of the people pronounce themselves satisfied with the country's progress, while 33 percent feel things should be better.
"Our poll numbers are more optimistic than any other numbers I've seen published,'' DiCamillo said. ""Californians are clearly more optimistic about the way the country is going."
The feelings about California's future are similar, if not quite so ecstatic. Among registered voters, 58 percent think the state is doing well, compared to 35 percent who see it heading down the wrong track. While that's the highest positive number ever record by the Field Poll, it's only slightly different from last year's 52 percent to 34 percent.
The survey is based on a random survey of 505 registered California voters and was conducted Aug. 18 through Aug. 22. The margin of error is 4.5 percent in either direction.
E-mail John Wildermuth at jwildermuth@sfchronicle.com
©2000 San Francisco Chronicle SectionsDatebookCommentaryNewsSportsBusiness
JohnK,
Thanks for the very kind offer. I'll be in the area again in early December. I'll look you up. Proload is of interest to me as well. While its not my day job, we're in similar businesses: http://www.pdt-tech.com. I'll give you a call when I'm in the area.
DC,
As always, I wish you and yours Godspeed. This has not been an easy decision, and its not just about politics.
Thanks for the very kind offer. I'll be in the area again in early December. I'll look you up. Proload is of interest to me as well. While its not my day job, we're in similar businesses: http://www.pdt-tech.com. I'll give you a call when I'm in the area.
DC,
As always, I wish you and yours Godspeed. This has not been an easy decision, and its not just about politics.
Still here in Silicon Valley. Been here since 1976. Been ready to leave since I got here. Can't hike out of the back yard and hunt squirrel or rabbit. Takes more than 15min to get to a place worth fishing. In the last 20 years it's felt like the look at my votes and just do the opposite! Now that the kids are grown and we have a little equity in the house, we talk about moving sometime soon. BUT, and like Roise's it is a big BUT, parents, kids, grandkids, basically roots, are hard to leave. I shoot, I vote, I believe the constitution has just as much, or more, meaning today than it did when it was written. But do I think the Kali politicians have ever read it? Only a few. A state senator named Ray Haynes (from LA area) continues to make sense and get over-ridden every time he talks. Will I leave because of the politics alone? Only when I'm too old and tired to continue to pay the outrageous taxes and still send off money to GOA, NRA, IRS, IRS, oops.
Sorry for the length, but this one is near and dear to my heart. There are good people here. But We're losing the battle.
Rick
Sorry for the length, but this one is near and dear to my heart. There are good people here. But We're losing the battle.
Rick
Born and raised here. Leaving for Oregon as soon as I either retire or lose my job. Working in the defense industry under the Klinton-Gore administration, losing my job may come first. Actually going to look at some vacation/retirement home possibilities this weekend up there. I am leaving for many of the valid reasons stated in previous posts. Also the repressive RKBA laws here make me sick. I'm afraid that if Gore gets elected, eventually the Calif. BS will spread nationwide, so the RKBA is not my primary reason for leaving, although it ranks up there. Oregon likes Californians as long as we bring our guns and leave any liberal "sheeple" attitudes behind. :
:Calif Hunter
New member
I'm a native Californian, growing up in SoCal in the 60's. It was sure different, then...I cold take my pellet gun out in the fields and play, build forts and tree houses, etc. This was in LA County, too! My younger brother has moved to Arizona and my older borhter has moved to the Sacramento area (he works for USF&W.) My Dad passed away last year and my family and I are the only ones left to visit her or take care of her if something were to happen. I have a GREAT job, two giris in college and a two-year old son (long story.) I will leave as soon as I can, but that will be after my mother and my widowed mother-in-law pass away (I'm not looking to either of those) and I'm closer to retirement. When my son starts school, my wife goes back to work and her salary will go completely towards retirement and a home out of state. I just see too many people here complacent and uncaring about their "rights." The attitude seems to be "who cares about rights as long as I have my nice house, new BMW and can go out to eat as often as I want." Too many people here would rather abdicate their rights to the government so that they don't have to be responsible for anything! Until some things change, though, I'm stuck.
As a recent refugee from California, this is indeed a meaningful post. Did I flee due to the restrictive firearms issue? In part, yes. But there was a lot more to the decision. I am a third generation native Californian, greatgrandpa moved the family there in 1904. I now reside in the NW and love the weather, the smaller town lifestyle and, yes, the much less restrictive firearms regulations. Certain experiences in the major urban wasteland that my ancestral home has become brought me to the point where the family ties and generations of history just weren't enough to keep me there. Basically, I wasn't killed, so got to live long enough to get the heck out of dodge! Best of luck to those still there. Make sure you keep your lawyer on retainer. Stay safe.
[This message has been edited by nwgunman (edited August 31, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by nwgunman (edited August 31, 2000).]
pittspilot
New member
Apart from the Gun Laws, I like it here in SoCal. I live in South Orange County, which is pretty conservative.
For about a year I lived in Alameda in northern california. This is an island right next to the armpit we call Oakland. Mt congressional representative was Mr "RED" Dellums D-Ca. This Commie-Pinko Freedom hating bastard was like all the people I lived around. After 1 year, my wife and I were out of that smelly, dirty, socialist hell.
One good thing, my wife was a liberal when we moved up there. Once she saw what liberalism actually is, she rapidly changed her mind and started listening to Rush, and reading my National Reviews. She is now almost more conservative then me. hehehe
And by the way, the fishing is great in Kalifornia. The tree-huggers and the Sportfisherman got together and banned longlines and netting, and our fishery is recovering very nicely.
[This message has been edited by pittspilot (edited September 01, 2000).]
For about a year I lived in Alameda in northern california. This is an island right next to the armpit we call Oakland. Mt congressional representative was Mr "RED" Dellums D-Ca. This Commie-Pinko Freedom hating bastard was like all the people I lived around. After 1 year, my wife and I were out of that smelly, dirty, socialist hell.
One good thing, my wife was a liberal when we moved up there. Once she saw what liberalism actually is, she rapidly changed her mind and started listening to Rush, and reading my National Reviews. She is now almost more conservative then me. hehehe
And by the way, the fishing is great in Kalifornia. The tree-huggers and the Sportfisherman got together and banned longlines and netting, and our fishery is recovering very nicely.
[This message has been edited by pittspilot (edited September 01, 2000).]
oberkommando
New member
Hey ART, never been to Dallas but "I seen a little on TV"
Guy B. Meredith
New member
1. Next move uncertain. She doesn't like the climate in free states. I was raised in Orange County before the influx of immigrants messed it up--should have erected an immigrant barrier along the eastern border.
We now live in the SF Bay area in the slightly more conservative Contra Costa County, but it is all beginning to look like SoCal and we are getting itchy feet.
2. Our mutual preferences are Oregon and Wyoming, Morro Bay CA and Way North Cal. My luv's list includes Washington and mine includes Arizona.
3. I am a native Californian, growing up here before it became Kalifornia. Orange County was John Birch territory.
4. When I can afford to move.
5. Wish the sheeple would leave.
Originally said I wish everyone else would leave, but there are obviously some quality TFLers I would like to have living next door.
[This message has been edited by Guy B. Meredith (edited September 02, 2000).]
We now live in the SF Bay area in the slightly more conservative Contra Costa County, but it is all beginning to look like SoCal and we are getting itchy feet.
2. Our mutual preferences are Oregon and Wyoming, Morro Bay CA and Way North Cal. My luv's list includes Washington and mine includes Arizona.
3. I am a native Californian, growing up here before it became Kalifornia. Orange County was John Birch territory.
4. When I can afford to move.
5. Wish the sheeple would leave.
Originally said I wish everyone else would leave, but there are obviously some quality TFLers I would like to have living next door.
[This message has been edited by Guy B. Meredith (edited September 02, 2000).]
A) My wife and I are, eventually. Too many people, too few brains and too little water will make SoCal a very "interesting" place to live over the next 10-20 years. Too bad - such a beautiful state and a great climate!
B) I wouldn't mind the Pacific NW. Wife would prefer something considerably warmer. We are going to wait until we are closer to retirement to see how the money and demographics are going to shake out.
C) Ex-Chicagoan. Sadly, for me Kalifornia was a step up as far as gun laws are concerned. At least for now...
D) Probably retirement, or until one of the following happens:
1. The state runs out of water, and my wife runs out of wine.
2. The car representing the final piece of the jigsaw puzzle of gridlock brings the freeways to a halt.
3. The folks in Tijuana start coming up to San Diego to party!
E)The sheeple - heavy sigh.
B) I wouldn't mind the Pacific NW. Wife would prefer something considerably warmer. We are going to wait until we are closer to retirement to see how the money and demographics are going to shake out.
C) Ex-Chicagoan. Sadly, for me Kalifornia was a step up as far as gun laws are concerned. At least for now...
D) Probably retirement, or until one of the following happens:
1. The state runs out of water, and my wife runs out of wine.
2. The car representing the final piece of the jigsaw puzzle of gridlock brings the freeways to a halt.
3. The folks in Tijuana start coming up to San Diego to party!
E)The sheeple - heavy sigh.
- Status