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Proper storage of firearms
- Thread starter Photon Guy
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
The problem is that it could be some other parents' child.lefteye said:The loss of child due to a parent's negligence is more punishment than a state or federal government can lawfully impose on that parent.
A number of years ago a child was killed in the town next to mine. The dead child was a visitor in the home of a police sergeant. The officer's son and his friend found the officer's service weapon and took it out to look at it. "It went off."
The crux of the issue, IMHO, is that too many parents today are terrified of guns and think that NOT teaching theit kids how guns work will protect them. Obviously, that doesn't work. I'm a senior citizen. I grew up in a farming community with my grandparents and two sets of aunts, uncles, and cousins all living within a half mile of our house. There were guns in all the houses, abd they weren't locked up. We kids were taught that guns can kill people, and that we should never take them out and play with them without adult supervision. So ... we didn't take them out to play with, and nobody was killed or injured.
This is the purpose and focus of the NRA's Eddie Eagle program. IMHO Eddie Eagle should be mandatory in all elementary schools.
and middle schools, high schools and parenting classes............IMHO Eddie Eagle should be mandatory in all elementary schools.
Photon Guy
New member
And what law is that? I kept a loaded 357 in the nightstand for the 20 years I had kids growing up in the house. They knew where it was, they shot it to see what it could do; I never had any issue.
Here is a video where the law is briefly described.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skhfUfJD7LA
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
I may have missed it being mentioned; but "The Trace" is owned by Bloomberg and its sole purpose is to propagandize for gun control.
As for storage laws, I am all for responsibly storing firearms. However, I fail to see how storage laws are going to be effective that way. Is the guy who leaves his loaded pistol in a cigar box on the coffee table where his three-year old can reach it suddenly going to change his ways because it is now illegal to do that? Color me skeptical.
Instead I expect the law to be used to make it more difficult for peaceable, responsible folk to own a firearm. Time and time again, we get these proposals for "reasonable" gun laws - like California's "safety certification" - which requires every different color of gun to be recertified and tested and carves out a special exemption for law enforcement to carry and use guns the state has deemed "unsafe" for citizens.
So the first question to ask is "How is it going to be abused by anti gun fanatics?" - because it will be. Once you know the cost, you can ask yourself whether the benefit (in this case saving the children of whatever number of people don't care about children getting shot but respect storage laws) is worth it.
As for storage laws, I am all for responsibly storing firearms. However, I fail to see how storage laws are going to be effective that way. Is the guy who leaves his loaded pistol in a cigar box on the coffee table where his three-year old can reach it suddenly going to change his ways because it is now illegal to do that? Color me skeptical.
Instead I expect the law to be used to make it more difficult for peaceable, responsible folk to own a firearm. Time and time again, we get these proposals for "reasonable" gun laws - like California's "safety certification" - which requires every different color of gun to be recertified and tested and carves out a special exemption for law enforcement to carry and use guns the state has deemed "unsafe" for citizens.
So the first question to ask is "How is it going to be abused by anti gun fanatics?" - because it will be. Once you know the cost, you can ask yourself whether the benefit (in this case saving the children of whatever number of people don't care about children getting shot but respect storage laws) is worth it.
I have always stored my firearms responsibly; specifically, if they are not in use they are under lock and key (with a holstered handgun immediately available for self defense being in use by my definition). I am not sure that responsibility can be legislated, though. I really question whether such laws save anyone, because if someone is inclined to leave loaded firearms where they can easily be accessed by children, I doubt that having gun storage codified in law is going to change their minds. My guess is that in the vast majority of cases it just adds the possibility of a criminal charge after the fact rather than changing behavior of irresponsible people before the fact of a tragedy.
I can only speak for myself but i imagine there are others with the same experience, we grew up with guns, they were in our parents home and pickups, and they were loaded.We were taught to respect them and taught how they worked, we were taught to shoot them. Our friends were likewise, we went huntint or plinking together. When we got old enough, for me that was 10 years old, I got my own gun and it was loaded. When I could buy my first pistol, I kept it loaded. Point being, education will offer more protection than a gun safe. My kids have been shooting and knowing how to treat a firearm from the get go. We do not need the government involved. Want your kids protected, educate them. A gun locked up with no ammo is a very poor self defense weapon.
Old Bill Dibble
New member
I'd say "safe" it is a little different for everyone too. My kids started storing firearms (and ammo) in their rooms at that age of 12. This is common practice in our little corner of the world. In other states this might be illegal.
This worked for our particular situation. Other kids I have seen so irresponsible that they are unsafe with firearms at any age. For the government to make arbitrary laws telling me how to raise my kids and whats best for them means we have too many failed parents in our society.
This worked for our particular situation. Other kids I have seen so irresponsible that they are unsafe with firearms at any age. For the government to make arbitrary laws telling me how to raise my kids and whats best for them means we have too many failed parents in our society.
Photon Guy
New member
So anyway I just like to point out that whenever I hear about tragedies involving children with guns its always a boy who was handling the gun that caused the tragedy. I've never heard of girls playing with guns and causing accidents.
Old Bill Dibble
New member
I've never heard of girls playing with guns and causing accidents.
I have. That 9 year old girl that shot the instructor at that machine gun shoot a few years ago. A five year old girl in Louisiana last month shot herself while playing with her daddy's gun. Happens all the time.
Photon Guy
New member
I have. That 9 year old girl that shot the instructor at that machine gun shoot a few years ago. A five year old girl in Louisiana last month shot herself while playing with her daddy's gun. Happens all the time.
With the 9 year old girl who shot her instructor I don't know the circumstances as to why she was shooting a gun but the fact of the matter is that the tragedy was due to negligence on the part of the instructor. She was shooting supervised, as she should've been, but full automatics can be really hard particularly for children to control. The instructor should've had at least one hand on the weapon while she was firing it. I go to a shooting school and sometimes they do let small children shoot full automatics but an instructor always has a hand on the weapon while its being fired in order to prevent such tragedies.
As for the 5 year old girl who shot herself in Louisiana, I haven't heard of that one but the fact of the matter is boys are much more likely to play with guns. Girls are more interested in playing with dolls and other such stuff.
If someone leaves a firearm, a kitchen knife, prescription drugs, or a set of car keys out in the open where a child or other irresponsible person can get their hands on them and harm themselves or others they may be irresponsible, but are not a criminal.
Most states require a swimming pool to be enclosed in a fenced in area with a padlock to keep kids out. If someone climbs over the fence and drowns in the pool you'll never see the home owner charged with a crime.
Firearms should be no different. If my guns are in my vehicle or home stored in a manner where they are out of sight and someone has to take extra ordinary measures to locate them I've met my legal and moral obligations. If someone takes your property they are the criminal, not you.
As a rule my guns are locked up unless in use. But that is something I CHOOSE to do. Not something I should be forced to do by law.
Most states require a swimming pool to be enclosed in a fenced in area with a padlock to keep kids out. If someone climbs over the fence and drowns in the pool you'll never see the home owner charged with a crime.
Firearms should be no different. If my guns are in my vehicle or home stored in a manner where they are out of sight and someone has to take extra ordinary measures to locate them I've met my legal and moral obligations. If someone takes your property they are the criminal, not you.
As a rule my guns are locked up unless in use. But that is something I CHOOSE to do. Not something I should be forced to do by law.
But the family of that child will sue - and usually successfully. Same for trampolines, etc.Most states require a swimming pool to be enclosed in a fenced in area with a padlock to keep kids out. If someone climbs over the fence and drowns in the pool you'll never see the home owner charged with a crime.
redlightrich
New member
NJ has strict laws. How I choose to comply is my business. Think of a police officer. If he "loses" his weapon, there is hell to pay. I think that is good for civilians as well.
I am anti any law. I think we have too many already. But lets face it, if guns never got stolen, or carelessly "misplaced", this conversation would not exist. We need to take responsibility for our firearms to avoid them from winding up in the wrong hands. We lock our doors, we lock our cars, we lock our cell phones. Why not lock our guns? I understand quick access. Just be extremely careful and diligent protecting your nightstand gun, and keep the bulk of them carefully stored.
I work very hard to keep my weapons safe and accounted for. I don't want to contribute to the potential law of mandatory "safe keeping". If we keep them safe, theft and unauthorized use will decline, and so storage and safe keeping laws should not hit the radar.
Basically, I am saying as a group, we can be careful to the point that mandatory safes and other methods will not be deemed necessary.
My view, and all won't agree.
Please be a responsible person. Being so will help our cause.
Thank you
Rich
I am anti any law. I think we have too many already. But lets face it, if guns never got stolen, or carelessly "misplaced", this conversation would not exist. We need to take responsibility for our firearms to avoid them from winding up in the wrong hands. We lock our doors, we lock our cars, we lock our cell phones. Why not lock our guns? I understand quick access. Just be extremely careful and diligent protecting your nightstand gun, and keep the bulk of them carefully stored.
I work very hard to keep my weapons safe and accounted for. I don't want to contribute to the potential law of mandatory "safe keeping". If we keep them safe, theft and unauthorized use will decline, and so storage and safe keeping laws should not hit the radar.
Basically, I am saying as a group, we can be careful to the point that mandatory safes and other methods will not be deemed necessary.
My view, and all won't agree.
Please be a responsible person. Being so will help our cause.
Thank you
Rich
Spats McGee
Administrator
A word to the wise: I'm going to clean up this thread, but let's stay on topic.
True story, happened to me.
Back in 1980 I lived in a quiet neighborhood, a subdivision of a couple hundred homes. We were experiencing a rash of burglaries and my home was broken into twice. The first time they got our big stereo and TV. The second time all they got was my gun. Nothing else was touched.
The gun was in a small file box in our bedroom closet and was also inside a locked soft case. I called the police and made out a report and then put the word out in the neighborhood.
Six days later I went out to fill the dogs water bowl and low and behold inside the bowl was the gun case still locked.
I called the police again to report that it was recovered and they seemed to care less!
This incident was so disturbing to me that about a month later I sold the gun. At the time we had just had our third child and the thought of some breaking into my house, stealing a firearm and possibly injuring someone with it or committing a crime with it was hard to think about.
It was so upsetting to me at the time that from that time until this year I have not owned any firearms. I wasn't afraid of my children getting into it and hurting themselves. I was afraid of a thief and them getting it and hurting someone
Do we need more laws and regulations? I believe not. We do need more understanding and education. How you store your firearms is a moral decision we all have to make. At the time that was the moral choice I made.
Back in 1980 I lived in a quiet neighborhood, a subdivision of a couple hundred homes. We were experiencing a rash of burglaries and my home was broken into twice. The first time they got our big stereo and TV. The second time all they got was my gun. Nothing else was touched.
The gun was in a small file box in our bedroom closet and was also inside a locked soft case. I called the police and made out a report and then put the word out in the neighborhood.
Six days later I went out to fill the dogs water bowl and low and behold inside the bowl was the gun case still locked.
I called the police again to report that it was recovered and they seemed to care less!
This incident was so disturbing to me that about a month later I sold the gun. At the time we had just had our third child and the thought of some breaking into my house, stealing a firearm and possibly injuring someone with it or committing a crime with it was hard to think about.
It was so upsetting to me at the time that from that time until this year I have not owned any firearms. I wasn't afraid of my children getting into it and hurting themselves. I was afraid of a thief and them getting it and hurting someone
Do we need more laws and regulations? I believe not. We do need more understanding and education. How you store your firearms is a moral decision we all have to make. At the time that was the moral choice I made.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
I was raised with guns in site and able to grasp. Loaded one's.
My kids were raised with guns in site. Ammo for mine was always lock-up. As far as I know my kids never threatened or killed anyone with my firearms. Good kids. Productive kids. Trusted kids. Ours are.
Trigger locked gun/s is ample requirement of any private citizen having to put up with.
Kid takes his fathers or mothers gun and wounds some other or worse. Don't blame the parent/s. "Their offspring needs to be held accountable." Likely one of those trouble making sob's causing parental grief all his/her life anyway.
Get em off the streets. Lock the kid up away from us all. Throw away their jail cell key if so ordered by the court. I don't care what happens to someones Billy or Alice when they've killed or maimed a innocent.
320 million folks living in this country. Most of us are everyday productive. Devious behavior-ed citizens. Law breakers young or old. They always need to be culled from the rest of us.
My kids were raised with guns in site. Ammo for mine was always lock-up. As far as I know my kids never threatened or killed anyone with my firearms. Good kids. Productive kids. Trusted kids. Ours are.
Trigger locked gun/s is ample requirement of any private citizen having to put up with.
Kid takes his fathers or mothers gun and wounds some other or worse. Don't blame the parent/s. "Their offspring needs to be held accountable." Likely one of those trouble making sob's causing parental grief all his/her life anyway.
Get em off the streets. Lock the kid up away from us all. Throw away their jail cell key if so ordered by the court. I don't care what happens to someones Billy or Alice when they've killed or maimed a innocent.
320 million folks living in this country. Most of us are everyday productive. Devious behavior-ed citizens. Law breakers young or old. They always need to be culled from the rest of us.
peggysue, as I related from personal experience of 2 break-ins and having a firearm stolen, telling myself that "well my door was locked" isn't going to make me feel any better knowing a firearm that was stolen from me was used to injure someone in the commission of a crime.
For me a locked door isn't enough to make me feel I've done what I could to keep me and my firearms safe. A home burglary is not the same as a family member that has access.
I am a firm believer in firearm education and safety. Even for children. Remove the curiosity of a child and they will be less likely to indulge that curiosity. Though I draw a line with sex education for small children. That's even a harder subject than gun safety!
Today there are many safes available today that have touch pads or even finger print pads that open very quickly.
On that I'll state it is my opinion that it is not my place to tell some one else how they need to safely store anything. Be it guns, prescription drugs or cleaning chemicals. But it is my job to educate my children of those things.
For me a locked door isn't enough to make me feel I've done what I could to keep me and my firearms safe. A home burglary is not the same as a family member that has access.
I am a firm believer in firearm education and safety. Even for children. Remove the curiosity of a child and they will be less likely to indulge that curiosity. Though I draw a line with sex education for small children. That's even a harder subject than gun safety!
Today there are many safes available today that have touch pads or even finger print pads that open very quickly.
On that I'll state it is my opinion that it is not my place to tell some one else how they need to safely store anything. Be it guns, prescription drugs or cleaning chemicals. But it is my job to educate my children of those things.