Silver00LT
New member
Exactly. That is why I am looking at a progressive press since Turrets are near the same cost.
Press Upgrade
- Thread starter Silver00LT
- Start date
Exactly. That is why I am looking at a progressive press since Turrets are near the same cost.
FrankenMauser
New member
Step up to the Dillon RL 550B or better.
If you try to save a few bucks by buying something cheaper, it will cost you more in the long run (in time and/or money).
The manual-indexing of the 550 doesn't really slow you down, either. Most experienced 550 owners can run their presses just as fast as the average Dillon 650 or Hornady L-N-L AP owner. The lack of auto-indexing makes the 550's operation smoother and quieter.
Running at a comfortable pace with handgun cartridges, I usually averaged 225-325 rounds per hour on my 550. If I was really in my groove, with components staged properly, I would run at about 400 rounds per hour without trying. ...and that includes primer refills; powder checks every 5-10 rounds, for the first 100 or so; and powder checks every 15-20 rounds, for the remainder.
If you try to save a few bucks by buying something cheaper, it will cost you more in the long run (in time and/or money).
The manual-indexing of the 550 doesn't really slow you down, either. Most experienced 550 owners can run their presses just as fast as the average Dillon 650 or Hornady L-N-L AP owner. The lack of auto-indexing makes the 550's operation smoother and quieter.
Running at a comfortable pace with handgun cartridges, I usually averaged 225-325 rounds per hour on my 550. If I was really in my groove, with components staged properly, I would run at about 400 rounds per hour without trying. ...and that includes primer refills; powder checks every 5-10 rounds, for the first 100 or so; and powder checks every 15-20 rounds, for the remainder.
Silver00LT
New member
I just watched a few videos on YT of the XL 650. Impressed!
I think I'm going to settle with the XL 650 as it has a extra safety gadget.
I like the fact you can easily change tool heads, etc. So its definitely something you can invest in over time. I reload on a regular computer desk with a 2x4 under the press for extra support. Is this sufficient for these presses?
Also if I purchased a USED XL 650 would I still have a warranty. It just kills me Dillion sells the XL 650 for under $600. And on eBay people trying to scalp them for over $1k. -sighs-
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Yes, Dillon will warranty a press even if you buy it used....
But used presses are sometimes "bubba-fied" ....with all kinds of thing sort of patch-worked together....and sometimes the previous owner has taken exceptional care of them....
e-bay, etc....give me heartburn / when it comes to something I know I'm going to keep for a long time - I tend to buy it new. Over time, if you take care of this 650, it'll go up in value !!
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I'm not trying to talk you out of a 650 ....I think its a really smart decision / but all of the Dillon presses the SDB and the 550 and the 650 all have easily changeable tool heads. Yes, most of us that load a lot of different calibers .....have separate toolheads ready to go ....with quick change kits installed ( dies, powder check, and powder measure already installed in the tool head ).....so it makes changing calibers really easy.
You will need a large primer feed ....for .45 acp, .44 mag ...etc...
a small primer feed for 9mm, .40S&W, .357 mag....
you need a conversion kit ...and dies ....for each caliber.
I recommend the "Strong Mount" as well....but you can add it later too.
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Your bench may be ok .....or it may not ....if it flexes too much / you'll need to reinforce it with more legs or something. 2 X 4's flex quite a bit .../ or more than you would think....
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Its the capatilistic way .....but profiteers ...at my local gunshows ....are selling new 650's in the box for at least $ 100 over list...
I know Dillon is adding another shift at their facility -- to try and cut down on their backlog....but they're backordered on a lot of machines and dies, etc...( especially in 9mm, .223, .45acp.....)....
But used presses are sometimes "bubba-fied" ....with all kinds of thing sort of patch-worked together....and sometimes the previous owner has taken exceptional care of them....
e-bay, etc....give me heartburn / when it comes to something I know I'm going to keep for a long time - I tend to buy it new. Over time, if you take care of this 650, it'll go up in value !!
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I'm not trying to talk you out of a 650 ....I think its a really smart decision / but all of the Dillon presses the SDB and the 550 and the 650 all have easily changeable tool heads. Yes, most of us that load a lot of different calibers .....have separate toolheads ready to go ....with quick change kits installed ( dies, powder check, and powder measure already installed in the tool head ).....so it makes changing calibers really easy.
You will need a large primer feed ....for .45 acp, .44 mag ...etc...
a small primer feed for 9mm, .40S&W, .357 mag....
you need a conversion kit ...and dies ....for each caliber.
I recommend the "Strong Mount" as well....but you can add it later too.
-----------
Your bench may be ok .....or it may not ....if it flexes too much / you'll need to reinforce it with more legs or something. 2 X 4's flex quite a bit .../ or more than you would think....
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Its the capatilistic way .....but profiteers ...at my local gunshows ....are selling new 650's in the box for at least $ 100 over list...
I know Dillon is adding another shift at their facility -- to try and cut down on their backlog....but they're backordered on a lot of machines and dies, etc...( especially in 9mm, .223, .45acp.....)....
Silver00LT
New member
My calibers are 9MM, .223 & .308. As I am not actively reloading .223 yet I only need to worry about 9MM and .308. Not looking to start reloading another caliber(not need to).
Ok, the 650 will easily handle all three of those calibers...( and so will the 550 ) ....not the SDB.
I probably shoot 9mm 75% of the time ....in my semi-autos / and .45acp about 15% of the time ...and .40S&W and .22 the other 10% .....
In revolvers...I'm shooting .357 mag 99% of the time...
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So I keep a pretty heavy inventory( 20 - 60 boxes) on 9mm, .357 mag....maybe 10- 25 boxes of .45 acp and .40S&W ....
I tend to load to case volumes of bullets in one caliber / box them up and keep them in inventory ( 4,000 bullets in 115gr 9mm / 2,000 bullets in 230gr .45acp )....and then I clean and lube the press ..and change calibers.
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I was down to about 8 boxes in inventory on 9mm yesterday ....so I put the 9mm head in the press this am and loaded up a few boxes...and I'll load up another 60-80 boxes this weekend ( 3,000 - 4,000 rds ) and box em up and put them in inventory. But I'm comfortable with that load in 9mm ( 115 gr Montana Gold bullet, FMJ - Hodgdon Universal 4.7 grains ...gives me a great practice / range round at about 1100 fps I think... ) ....and it runs 100% in a variety of my 1911's in 9mm as well as my Sig's 226 and 239....so once I settle on a load, I don't vary it much ....so its easy to run a volume and stack it up for use whenever..../and buying in case lots on bullets and primers and powder in 8lb kegs...that round, even at today's component prices is still under $ 8 for a box of 50 rds.
So 20 - 30 min of effort this am ...gave me 5 boxes of 9mm ...for $35 - $40 ....and I'll have some fun at my local indoor range for a couple of hours this afternoon ...../ if I was buying that ammo retail it would be at least $ 100 ...and my reloads, with a premium bullet, on a press where I can hold my tolerances really tight ....will reduce my group size at least 25% over any cheap retail ammo...and I'm not a competition shooter ...I shoot for recreation .../ but there is no downside when you have good equipment, only spend 20- 30 min to accomplish something ...and then get to go to the range...and shoot 2 or 3 times more, with the same ammo budget.
But justifying the purchase price on a 650 - with a case feeder...and a powder check die ....and quick change kits in separate toolheads...and most of the other options offered by Dillon --- strong mount, etc...is pretty easy to justify.
I probably shoot 9mm 75% of the time ....in my semi-autos / and .45acp about 15% of the time ...and .40S&W and .22 the other 10% .....
In revolvers...I'm shooting .357 mag 99% of the time...
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So I keep a pretty heavy inventory( 20 - 60 boxes) on 9mm, .357 mag....maybe 10- 25 boxes of .45 acp and .40S&W ....
I tend to load to case volumes of bullets in one caliber / box them up and keep them in inventory ( 4,000 bullets in 115gr 9mm / 2,000 bullets in 230gr .45acp )....and then I clean and lube the press ..and change calibers.
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I was down to about 8 boxes in inventory on 9mm yesterday ....so I put the 9mm head in the press this am and loaded up a few boxes...and I'll load up another 60-80 boxes this weekend ( 3,000 - 4,000 rds ) and box em up and put them in inventory. But I'm comfortable with that load in 9mm ( 115 gr Montana Gold bullet, FMJ - Hodgdon Universal 4.7 grains ...gives me a great practice / range round at about 1100 fps I think... ) ....and it runs 100% in a variety of my 1911's in 9mm as well as my Sig's 226 and 239....so once I settle on a load, I don't vary it much ....so its easy to run a volume and stack it up for use whenever..../and buying in case lots on bullets and primers and powder in 8lb kegs...that round, even at today's component prices is still under $ 8 for a box of 50 rds.
So 20 - 30 min of effort this am ...gave me 5 boxes of 9mm ...for $35 - $40 ....and I'll have some fun at my local indoor range for a couple of hours this afternoon ...../ if I was buying that ammo retail it would be at least $ 100 ...and my reloads, with a premium bullet, on a press where I can hold my tolerances really tight ....will reduce my group size at least 25% over any cheap retail ammo...and I'm not a competition shooter ...I shoot for recreation .../ but there is no downside when you have good equipment, only spend 20- 30 min to accomplish something ...and then get to go to the range...and shoot 2 or 3 times more, with the same ammo budget.
But justifying the purchase price on a 650 - with a case feeder...and a powder check die ....and quick change kits in separate toolheads...and most of the other options offered by Dillon --- strong mount, etc...is pretty easy to justify.
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Not that it matters....but here is my 650 setup on my bench....
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55543&d=1262629099
Dillon 650 ....with case feeder, etc is on one bench. A pair of MEC 9000-HN hydraulic shotshell presses ( the red loaders ) sit beside it on separate benches --- in my basement shop.
I load sitting on a stool ...so loaders are basically at cabinet top height.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55543&d=1262629099
Dillon 650 ....with case feeder, etc is on one bench. A pair of MEC 9000-HN hydraulic shotshell presses ( the red loaders ) sit beside it on separate benches --- in my basement shop.
I load sitting on a stool ...so loaders are basically at cabinet top height.
Sure shot wv
New member
I have to suggest dillon here as well. I recommend the 650. That will be my next press. Right now I'm running a 550 with case feeder and strong mount. As well as quick change assemblies. I have about 1k in that setup for 9,40,45. When I'm in the rhythm I usually load about 600 rounds an hour. That's with 5 primer tubes already filled and all my prep work done. The biggest reason I'm staying with dillon is there consistency dropping powder. With my autocomp loads ill get it set and I'm done. I check my powder charge every 1k rounds. And in over 15k rounds loaded on that setup I've never been off. There customer service is the best IMHO. I've had to call 3 times for random stuff and they've been great.
Now the reason I wanna move to a 650 is for my pistol loading so I can add a bullet feeder. I trust the powder drop and my eyes enough where I don't need a powder check. Dillon doesn't make a bullet feeder but the hornady one is very easy to install and adapt it to a 650. I load the most for 9mm because I shoot it the most. Training, practice and IDPA.
I was like you op when I was ready to upgrade. I wasn't sure what I would be comfortable at. But I was lucky and got to try rcbs, hornady, and dillon presses all decked out. After using them all I liked dillon the best. The hornady with the bullet feeder was nice but not as consistent as dillon. So I went with the 550 for the manual index and probably 3 months later thought I'm an idiot I should have got the 650. I love the 550 but trust me you will get used to everything and will feel comfortable and you'll be glad you went with the 650. Like others said you can start slow and upgrade later like the case feeder. But once you use one you'll never go back
Oh and as far as your desk, mount it to the wall and buy the strong mount. That mount does wonders for stability.
Now the reason I wanna move to a 650 is for my pistol loading so I can add a bullet feeder. I trust the powder drop and my eyes enough where I don't need a powder check. Dillon doesn't make a bullet feeder but the hornady one is very easy to install and adapt it to a 650. I load the most for 9mm because I shoot it the most. Training, practice and IDPA.
I was like you op when I was ready to upgrade. I wasn't sure what I would be comfortable at. But I was lucky and got to try rcbs, hornady, and dillon presses all decked out. After using them all I liked dillon the best. The hornady with the bullet feeder was nice but not as consistent as dillon. So I went with the 550 for the manual index and probably 3 months later thought I'm an idiot I should have got the 650. I love the 550 but trust me you will get used to everything and will feel comfortable and you'll be glad you went with the 650. Like others said you can start slow and upgrade later like the case feeder. But once you use one you'll never go back
Oh and as far as your desk, mount it to the wall and buy the strong mount. That mount does wonders for stability.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
The Lee Classic turret is an excellent press, much faster than a single stage and MUCH cheaper than any of the major (mentioned) progressives. It is auto-indexing and allows for 200 rounds per hour to be loaded, 150/hr is cake. The press is under 100 dollars.
I love my Classic turret. However, if I shot more than a couple of hundred rounds a month, I'd go full progressive. My research indicates that I'd go Hornady but it's largely a Ford versus Chevy argument. I don't mind at all sitting down for an hour and loading 2 months of cartridges. If I shot 500 rounds a month, I would not want to spend 2 1/2 hours loading them every month, hence I'd go progressive.
I love my Classic turret. However, if I shot more than a couple of hundred rounds a month, I'd go full progressive. My research indicates that I'd go Hornady but it's largely a Ford versus Chevy argument. I don't mind at all sitting down for an hour and loading 2 months of cartridges. If I shot 500 rounds a month, I would not want to spend 2 1/2 hours loading them every month, hence I'd go progressive.
FrankenMauser
New member
Yea, there's a lot of unfounded brand loyalty in the progressive world - often coming primarily from people that have never used anything but "their" brand. ...which I find quite comical (and is one reason I avoid the "which XXXX press is best" discussions).
As I've said in the past-
The only reason I ended up with a 550B, is because Hornady L-N-L APs were backordered at the time, and I was offered the Dillon and a bunch of accessories for a price I couldn't refuse. It also didn't hurt that I had loaded more ammunition on that particular 550B than anyone else ever did, including the owner.
For the average reloader on a budget, that wants auto-indexing and a decent production rate, but will require quite a few caliber conversion kits... Hornady is the way to go.
But, if you think you may need the "bullet-proof, no B.S." warranty, step up to the Dillon 650 and resign yourself to the fact that caliber conversions are more expensive.
Silver00LT
New member
So far its the Dillion 650 and Hornady LNL. Due to the expense of having multiple caliber changes...probably going with the Hornady.
My single stage I turn out 100/hr(throw charging and not weigh charging). Too slow and after one session it feels more like a job and not a hobby so I lose interest for a day or two before I start again. This is why I break the sessions down to maybe 200 a week spread out over 4-6 days depending on my mood. You have to think I pull the handle at least 400 times for 100 rounds.
My single stage I turn out 100/hr(throw charging and not weigh charging). Too slow and after one session it feels more like a job and not a hobby so I lose interest for a day or two before I start again. This is why I break the sessions down to maybe 200 a week spread out over 4-6 days depending on my mood. You have to think I pull the handle at least 400 times for 100 rounds.
Dillon 650 and Hornaday LNL are both good presses ....but its not just price that differentiates them on the caliber conversions.
They each handle the steps in the process a little differently - especially in terms of powder measures and primer feed handling.../ while I favor the Dillon system - and think in general the Dillon 650 is a little more heavily built press -both presses will do what you need.
They both have some quirks.....but I'd suggest you try and find someone locally that has each ...and test drive them a little if you can before you decide. I was lucky, I had buddies with each ...and other systems like the RCBS progressive ....and it was helpful in making up my mind.
They each handle the steps in the process a little differently - especially in terms of powder measures and primer feed handling.../ while I favor the Dillon system - and think in general the Dillon 650 is a little more heavily built press -both presses will do what you need.
They both have some quirks.....but I'd suggest you try and find someone locally that has each ...and test drive them a little if you can before you decide. I was lucky, I had buddies with each ...and other systems like the RCBS progressive ....and it was helpful in making up my mind.
Silver00LT
New member
Apparently the only ones in my area that reload are my father in law and me. hard trying to find people around me that reload. I know they are out there...probably off the net kind of people.
I've been watching videos on both. So far the LNL is cheaper and cheaper for caliber changes, but there are their own differences.
I've been watching videos on both. So far the LNL is cheaper and cheaper for caliber changes, but there are their own differences.
I have to say Dillon as well depending on how much you shoot will dictate what press you want 550 is manual indexing but it is a far cry from being a small upgrade once you get moving you will be cranking them out. It is manual indexing but after a bit everything is muscle memory. If you are looking at the 650 then you just as well get the 1050 pricey yes but it is a wonder to be seen and as you go up caliber conversions for both do as well all part of the game the only regret I have in not having two 550s one for pistol the other for rifle. as for the warranty it follows the product not the owner. If you buy a used one that does not work you just call Dillon and say yours don't work and they will replace it. you cant beat that.
Silver00LT
New member
I'm sure if they see that it has been rigged up they will void the warranty right?
That'd be awesome to have a press for my 9MM and for my .223. My .308 rounds is for my hunting round so I do not put out a lot of rounds per year so That will stay on my current setup.
I've seen fully automatic 1050s...I was DROOLING! Then again I am not retired or rich so no go.
Lost Sheep
New member
Dillon warranty
Of course, if someone sent in one that had welding marks, machining cuts and other such signs of true modifications, I am not sure, but I have never heard of any example of that, either.
What makes you ask?
I HAVE heard that the lifetime warranty does not apply to the 1050, as it is regarded as a commercial press and Dillon's lifetime, no questions warranty is intended for private owners' personal use presses. But that is secondhand information. You might want to check with Dillon for the straight information.
I don't own a Dillon, being satisfied with my 200 rounds per hour Lee Turret Press (and easy caliber swap) at an affordable price. But the main reason I stay away from progressives is that it is more relaxing to monitor one operation at a time rather than multiple operations. But that is just my preference.
Dillon is, by all reports (and I do mean ALL) a superb press, If funds are limited, other brands are acceptable and nearly as good (some say as good or better, but that is matter of style, I think, more than objective measure). Of course, some like the Lee Pro-1000 or Loadmaster, and they have certain advantages (being affordable). So, you pays your money and you takes your choices.
Good Luck
Lost Sheep
I have never heard anyone report that DIllong nas ever refused warranty service on one of their presses. Tumblers, maybe. But presses or supporting assemblies, no, not one.Silver00LT said:
Of course, if someone sent in one that had welding marks, machining cuts and other such signs of true modifications, I am not sure, but I have never heard of any example of that, either.
What makes you ask?
I HAVE heard that the lifetime warranty does not apply to the 1050, as it is regarded as a commercial press and Dillon's lifetime, no questions warranty is intended for private owners' personal use presses. But that is secondhand information. You might want to check with Dillon for the straight information.
I don't own a Dillon, being satisfied with my 200 rounds per hour Lee Turret Press (and easy caliber swap) at an affordable price. But the main reason I stay away from progressives is that it is more relaxing to monitor one operation at a time rather than multiple operations. But that is just my preference.
Dillon is, by all reports (and I do mean ALL) a superb press, If funds are limited, other brands are acceptable and nearly as good (some say as good or better, but that is matter of style, I think, more than objective measure). Of course, some like the Lee Pro-1000 or Loadmaster, and they have certain advantages (being affordable). So, you pays your money and you takes your choices.
Good Luck
Lost Sheep
Silver00LT
New member
By no means am I going to purchase a 1050 lol...its unpractical I could use the money saved for a weapon or more components.
But I see why it would not be viewed as a lifetime warranty as that would be the model most likely purchased by reloading stores for profit.If you don't mind posting your setup on here?
The 1050 ....does not have the "no BS warranty".....Dillon considers it a commercial machine. The 1050 is more machine than even any competitive shooter would need, in my opinion.
Dillon will warrant any of their machines ....but not for things that have been "Bubba-Fied"...or abused.../ there are some things on their machines that have limited warranties...like the battery operated alarms on the low primer, low powder and powder check systems.../ but you can buy rebuild kits for them if you screw up and forget to change a battery and it leaks ruining the switch or if a switch wears out....
650 ...does 2 very important things that the 550 does not do ....Auto Index and it has a 5th station for the Powder Check die. Its about $127 difference in the 2 machines.../ so the 650 is the way to go in my view.
Dillon will warrant any of their machines ....but not for things that have been "Bubba-Fied"...or abused.../ there are some things on their machines that have limited warranties...like the battery operated alarms on the low primer, low powder and powder check systems.../ but you can buy rebuild kits for them if you screw up and forget to change a battery and it leaks ruining the switch or if a switch wears out....
650 ...does 2 very important things that the 550 does not do ....Auto Index and it has a 5th station for the Powder Check die. Its about $127 difference in the 2 machines.../ so the 650 is the way to go in my view.