Pondering the craziest SA wheelgun upgrade ever :)

Jim March

New member
I want to see how far the design can be pushed. I mean...yeah, this isn't practical either:

T-Bucket.jpg


Why make a 1922 Ford model T do 12 or less in the quarter?

Hell, why did Burt Munroe drive a 1923 Indian motorcycle past 200mph at Bonneville in the '60s - as an old man, on the same bike he'd bought in 1923 modified to hell and gone?

:)

This is...well, it's basically barking up the same tree.

Yes, I know about the swing-open Uberti. Yawn. If I can pull this off, the NewVaq's excellent accuracy won't be harmed. Hell, I've already got sights on there that blow away more or less anything else. Time to fix the next flaw on the basic SAA platform: unloading/reloading.

If it doesn't work I can always bolt the original ejector back on...:). Failure IS an option...so screw it, let's jam it to the firewall and see what happens :D.
 

Lawofthirds

New member
What if... and I'm just throwing ideas out here, I'm not entirely sure if you can do this on a single action...you cut a second loading gate on the left side. Set the canned air device to blow the shells out that side while you load the newly empty chambers on the right.
 

Jim March

New member
What if... and I'm just throwing ideas out here, I'm not entirely sure if you can do this on a single action...you cut a second loading gate on the left side. Set the canned air device to blow the shells out that side while you load the newly empty chambers on the right.

Umm...you know what? That might be doable, EXCEPT you've got the wrong side.

See, if we set it up to spit empties out the left side (from the shooter's point of view), the empties will spend too much time rolling around to the ejection point. No, we don't want to do that.

BUT.

Ohhhh man. There's another way to get to the same place. And it's absolutely TWISTED, but it'll work. I think :).

OK, try this.

Step one: disable the interlock between the loading gate and freezing the hammer! Unsafe? Not really. Granted, a "safety" is being disabled but as long as the transfer bar still works...? Basically, rig the gun so it'll fire with the loading gate OPEN.

:eek:

Step two: add an extended opener lever on the loading gate, so it can be flicked open and closed while the gun is held in a firing position. This is something I've thought of before. There's a couple of fairly easy and cosmetically clean ways of doing it. One would be to drill a hole into the gate from the back of the gun pointing forward along the barrel, cut the end off of a small silver spoon or something, solder it in there,

Step three: open up the loading gate channel just a wee bit. On a 357 like mine, wouldn't take much at all.

Here's how it would work:

Fire the first round with the gate CLOSED.

Flick the gate open, cock it, fire again. The empty shell has moved to a position in the gate where the recoil from shot #2 should send the first empty flying! Repeat as needed. The LAST round only will need to be kicked out in the conventional fashion!!!

Holy...it'll work.

If it doesn't, the mod to the frame needed is very minor and the loading gate will still latch closed just fine. Back off on the disconnected interlock (probably replace one altered part, I'll have to figure out which) and we're back to square one, no harm done.

Wait...hold it, time out, how in hell do I unlatch the cylinder to get it spinning to LOAD it! Half cock modification? Doable...yeah...worst case, buy the Power Custom drop-in parts...dammit, he doesn't have an SBH hammer for that but...meh, he's got Bisley bits. That would do. But...is it half-cock that unlatches the cylinder to spin, or is it still the Ruger loading gate system? Might be the latter. Hrm...

WAIT, I got it. I think. Heh. It's bizarre but it should work!

Cut the top half of the loading gate off :). Cut a channel in the remaining bottom half, put a pivot pin it it, have a swivelling upper half. In other words, a two-piece loading gate. Fire, then flick the top half down...because it's sole job is to prevent live round number six from auto-ejecting when I fire the first round. The bottom half of the loading gate is still closed and that controls the cylinder rotation release! Fire the gun dry then flick the rest of the loading gate open, dump the last live round, re-stuff it (tubeloader?), close the whole loading gate, cock and fire, open the top half....yeah, it's doable.

ONLY real problem is...if the gun k'booms, it might send the top half of the loading gate and/or a piece of shell backwards right at me. Well...that's not that bad. I wear safety glasses 100% of the time - literally, I'm near-sighted and I don't wear contacts, and my glasses are safety rated. If a piece of metal that light hits my cheek, meh, pull it out and grab a band-aid.

Besides, the cylinder on this thing is beefier than a GP100 or S&W686. A k'boom is damned unlikely.

Yeah. Holy crap. Worst case, it doesn't work, how much are loading gates at Brownell's? Hah...$10. Yeah, I can risk THAT!

:D
 

EdInk

New member
I don't know, man..... You already put the pseudo-ghost ringish hack(job)site v.7.0 plumbing pipe thing on there. :barf:

Now you want to rig somekind of co2 cartridge powered pneumatic thing to the ejector rod or replace it entirely with some on/off air valve contraption. I think you're dancing on the edge of being the first man ever to be called a mall ninja with a New Vaquero.;)

I know you also like to make holsters. Perhaps it's time to refine those little bit more and let the gun manufacturers take a stab at improving the shortcomings of SAA style guns. Rumor has it they have some clever young guys there
experimenting with brightly colored front sights and cylinders capable of ejecting all the empties at the same time!:)

(BTW I'm just joking with you.) :D
 

Jim March

New member
Sigh. It's worse than you think.

I live in Tucson. THIS is coming to town:

http://wildwildwestcon.com

It appears I'm about to have the absolute perfect open carry piece for THAT.

:D

"Wait...***...you didn't start with a Nerf gun like everybody else...the sucker is REAL? And it still is?!?" :eek:
 

Dr. Strangelove

New member
You could just take off the loading gate and modify the plunger rod holder thingy (?) to accept a Crossman CO² cartridge, rigged to the trigger somehow.

Better yet, why not drill a wee tiny baby hole under the barrel and plumb a rigid tube to it, thus having a gas-operated single action pistol?:)


By the way,

You'll shoot your eye out, kid! :D
 

Jim March

New member
Better yet, why not drill a wee tiny baby hole under the barrel and plumb a rigid tube to it, thus having a gas-operated single action pistol?

OK, that's officially WAY evil. But...dear God. It would work. :D If fact, the "tap tube" could be plumbed just outside of the frame where the ejector rod tube goes. When the cylinder is in a battery position, the chamber we need to empty is just north of the ejector position, so we have one edge of the chamber visible from the front that we can spray into. And that would leave the stock ejector system intact for emergencies. Excellent!

So...what's the sanest answer? I don't want to actually drill the barrel, that's too nuts even for me :).

BUT...there's a concept I came up with a long time ago for a compensator that would cap off the end of the barrel in an extension tube extending the barrel about 1/2" or so. That could easily be tapped for gas. No possibility of screwing up the barrel's basic accuracy.

Totally hilarious if it works...can you imagine the Youtube video?

:D
 

Stainz

New member
Hmmm, blowing through a Bic pen barrel to eject spent cases from the muzzle end sounds like you might get some concerned stares at the range.

Here is a thought... get a S&W 627, if .38/.357M is your desire - a 625 in .45 ACP, if you want a larger bore. They use these new-fangled things called moonclips that tie all the rounds together for faster insertion and ejection - all at the same time. And... they save your hot air for important things... like stories of how good a shot you were. At my age, that's an important attribute. Just cock the hammer each time... you can pretend it's a SA. Of course, remember that warning - in bold red all caps - on page 19 of the current S&W instruction manual;

"WARNING: THE REVOLVER WILL FIRE IF THE TRIGGER IS PULLED".

Whew, I feel so much safer with that kind of a safeguard in the instruction manual. Seriously, neat new-fangled revolvers - made of SS - safely fire that new-fangled smokeless powder - whoppee!

I think I need my AM meds, too...

Stainz
 
JIM... you know I don't have a problem thinking outside the box...

this would be unique, but as others have said... maybe a waste of skills & time since you could just shoot the double action, in single action...

you know alot of antique guns had no loading gate, they staggered the opening, so no loaded rounds or empty cases lined up with the cut out, if the cylinder stop was locked into the notch... & the emptys lack mass to just eject out on their own...

sorry... I own too many revolvers to memorize the cylinder rotations.. but I believe the Rugers rotate clockwise ??? ( don't have one handy )

I personally like the gas tube eye deer... maybe remove the gate, & make a specially shaped gate with an ejection port... & use the gas from the barrel or a threaded or clamp on expansion chamber & tube to blow out ( & be directed downward away from the shooter )...

the loading part is tougher... but what if you could come up with some mechanism, that would allow you to load from the front... might have to switch the revolver to 38 Super or 9 X "long" ( what are they 23 ??? ) & have to modify the cylinder so some how the cylinder would hold the cartridges, unless they were in the gate position ( somewhat similar to how a speedloader works... if the cylinder base pin were modified, you could probably insert a cartride from the front, in the chamber in the oposite position of the normal gate... some sort of stripper clip / speed trip style loading tool, & you could insert a cartridge on the left before firing each time, & the cases would automagically eject from the right...

working off these thoughts, you'd have to thread the barrel ( or make a clamp on ) pressure bleeding expansion chamber, make a new cylinder, make a new "unloading" gate, & some sort of speed loader to load the empty chamber from the front...but might get it functional with no modifications to the actual frame of the gun...

BTW... did anyone ever say "you must be crazy" :p
 

Jim March

New member
Hmmm, blowing through a Bic pen barrel to eject spent cases from the muzzle end sounds like you might get some concerned stares at the range.

OK, now that's too much. The Bic pen thing was just a test to see if the amount of air needed is there. In "production" air would be routed from the rear via carefully bent copper line or something :).

Although I am REALLY liking the "gas gun" concept instead. Just too out-of-control sick.

You know...if the gas eject system threw empties fast enough, they would land right about on my shoulder. Imagine a catch bag worn there that empties got spat straight into. Man, that would be convenient as hell, wouldn't it?
 

Jim March

New member
If you do this I want range video of it in action and interviews with witnesses!

Oh hell yeah. Better than that: I want to show up as a SASS match, convince 'em to let me run a stage with just one gun...and they don't get to see it first.

:D

Ok, back to the details.

Here's what it'll look like from the "driver's view"...more or less:

attachment.php


This actually wouldn't work near as well if the gun was a 45. The amount of frame shaving to allow the upper visible round to eject while the cylinder is in a battery position would be scary - the retaining pin for the firing pin bushing might be affected. As is the amount of frame material removed to expand the loading gate is miniscule - a couple millimeters tops. With the original unmodified loading gate closed the alteration would be invisible so yeah, I can back out of the whole plan if it doesn't work out. Cool.

Odd thing though: if the cylinder was 9mm or 9x23Winchester, there'd be no interference at all (rimless cartridges).
 

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curt.45

New member
Lawofthirds and you are coming close to the idea I had, mill off most of the right side, much like your first picture, set it up with a "air burst" to blow out the fired case well just enough to expose two holes for unobstructed ejection and loading, and a tube feeding the live rounds to the lower empty cylinder hole when the cylinder lines up, you'll have the first auto loading SA revolver, I wish I was able to explain it better. but I can see you now with a long clear tube wrapped around you a few times loaded with two hundred or so rounds.

maybe you could get one of those bed pumps fixed to your shoe so you could pump up a small holding tank and never run out of air pressure?
 

treg

New member
Here in the colder climates using your breath to eject cases would result in frosted chambers making insertion of the next round impossible.

maybe you could get one of those bed pumps fixed to your shoe so you could pump up a small holding tank and never run out of air pressure?

Maybe you could bleed off some of the gases in the barrel to a holding tank to eject spent cases at the push of a button.
 

Jim March

New member
Lawofthirds and you are coming close to the idea I had, mill off most of the right side, much like your first picture, set it up with a "air burst" to blow out the fired case well just enough to expose two holes for unobstructed ejection and loading

Right, but clearing a lot of metal isn't needed. I can get enough clearance with just a few passes of a dremel. The above pic is a pretty decent view of what the situation is NOW with the bone-stock loading gate. Again, with 45 chambers yeah, a lot of metal would have to be torn out. With 357s, not so much.

With 9mm, none at all.
 

Venom1956

New member
what about using a 'blast shield' I.E. Taurus Judge Rifle on the right hand side it should catch the fire from the forcing cone and push the empty out.
 

Jim March

New member
Huh. Good thought, but I don't think so. It would add bulk to the holstered gun, and it wouldn't be catching as much gas.
 

Dr. Strangelove

New member
Jim March said:
You know...if the gas eject system threw empties fast enough, they would land right about on my shoulder. Imagine a catch bag worn there that empties got spat straight into. Man, that would be convenient as hell, wouldn't it?

Or even a hat with a catch bag on side or the other, you could sell'em to Cabelas as a sideline...:eek:
 
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