Please do not carry ammunition to Russia in your luggage...

[FireMax]

firemax
In the US, we treat ammo differently than a gun.

So what. Weeds legal in Alaska, do you think I'd haul a baggie to Singapore

Why do you keep bringing up weed? Are you smoking some now?

firemax
3 years for that? It's harsh IMO... especially without intent.

How do YOU know what his intent was?

HIS lawyer alluded to a lack of intent and I simply reiterated the lawyer's statement. Did YOU read the article for yourself? That part was in there.

wildalaska
I repeat my assertion about gun fixation....

And I repeat my assertion that you are way off the mark. I cannot fathom how you can take one word of my debate and turn it into a "you've got a gun fixation" argument. That's just off-the-wall silly.

 

[FireMax]

Stage 2
You keep alluding to what we do in the US and what we think. Either you believe that countries have a right to set their own laws or you dont. Its really that simple.

Were it only that simple.... Could you imagine taking a box of Federal 9mm ammo to the airport with you by mistake and then getting 3 years in prison for it? Yikes. But, hey, you would deserve it and surely, you would say "I did the crime, now I'll do the time.". Sure.

 

[Wildalaska]

Why do you keep bringing up weed? Are you smoking some now?

And if I was? Does it make my argument less valid?

HIS lawyer alluded to a lack of intent and I simply reiterated the lawyer's statement. Did YOU read the article for yourself? That part was in there.

Bingo. So you have no idea what was going on in this case...only that some numbskull got caught smuggling ammo.

I cannot fathom how you can take one word of my debate and turn it into a "you've got a gun fixation" argument. That's just off-the-wall silly.

Its your worldview fella, your worldview.

So if he had been caught smuggling weed and got three years would you be indingnant?

No

WilditaallaboutthegunAlaska TM

 

[SteelJM1]

Who CARES what his intent was!? If I'm riding my scoot and get distracted by the 20-something year old in a short skirt walking down the sidewalk, and consequently run down a kid crossing the street, do I get off because i didn't intend to hit the kid? If I bring some surplus greek .30-06 ammo to school and get caught with it, I get expelled and in legal trouble whether or not my intention was to give it to my buddy who wants some ammo, or if i was planning on throwing it really hard at my classmates in anger.

 

[FireMax]

wildalaska... let's agree to disagree. We never seem to make much of a sensible argument between the two of us.

 

[FireMax]

SteelJM1
Who CARES what his intent was!?

I would hope the judge/jury would care. Are you saying that we should punish the following in the same manner....

1. Innocent hunter brings in a box of ammo to share with his hunting buddy
2. A known terror suspect brings in a box of ammo to share with his known terror group.

(Hey, since we're sounding obscenely ridiculous, I thought I would join in.)

 

[Derius_T]

Look, I agree that it was a bone-headed thing to do. But he made a mistake. Its something we all do. I'm not saying that he should get away with it, just that I believe that a 3 year sentence in prison is a bit much for a box of ammo.

Even the lawyer was surprised, wondering why he was not simply hit with a lighter, more realistic sentence. He broke the law, I get it, but 3 years in prison? Doesn't feel like it was harsher BECAUSE he was American maybe? Or a Pastor even?

 

[STAGE 2]

Were it only that simple.... Could you imagine taking a box of Federal 9mm ammo to the airport with you by mistake and then getting 3 years in prison for it? Yikes. But, hey, you would deserve it and surely, you would say "I did the crime, now I'll do the time.". Sure.

It seems you want to talk about everything BUT what actually happened here. He didn't bring the ammo by mistake. He knowingly put it in his luggage and knowingly brought it into the country.

I would hope the judge/jury would care. Are you saying that we should punish the following in the same manner....

1. Innocent hunter brings in a box of ammo to share with his hunting buddy
2. A known terror suspect brings in a box of ammo to share with his known terror group.

We don't punish people for who they are, we punish them for the crimes they commit. If a terrorist commits the same crime as a hunter (I think its cute how you insert the fact that he's "innocent") then they are both guilty of the same crime and deserving of the same punishment with respect to that crime.

 

[JuanCarlos]

For some reason, I can't help but visualize some guy traveling from Amsterdam (or some other place where marijuana is, if not outright legal, at least not pursued in nearly the same way it is here) with a large quantity of weed in his luggage. He gets busted, probably sentenced to at least some jail time (if not substantial prison time, depending on the amount), even though back home he'd have only been facing a fine or similar. And I'm visualizing a bunch of Dutch members of some marijuana enthusiast's forum talking about how excessive the punishment is.

A bit simplistic, to be sure...but I'm still seeing some parallels.

We have punishments in this country, even some that foreigners have been subjected to, that are considered draconian elsewhere in the world.

He willfully smuggled a prohibited item into their country. As soon as they start taking "I didn't know" as an excuse, they jeopardize the enforceability of their law...because everybody can claim that one once, right?

Do I think the sentence is excessive? Damn right I do. Which is why I'm extra super careful when traveling to other countries (or even other states) to be sure I know any pertinent laws. Again, there are only a few items where you really have to pay attention or risk winding up in serious trouble...guns, drugs, alcohol, porn, etc. And unfortunately for him, ammo falls under guns.

 

[Nev C]

Just declare it.

I think some people are missing the point here, he wasn't jailed for possessing a box of hunting ammo, he was jailed for SMUGGLING the box of ammo, there is a big difference. On every flight to a foreign country I have been on, including the US, I have been given a customs declaration card to fill in. If you DECLARE any suspect goods such as food items, weapons etc. you will not be prosecuted for smuggling those goods, if they are prohibited, customs will confiscate them but you will not be charged.
Why didn't this guy just simply declare a box of hunting ammo? He may have had it confiscated but that would be better than being convicted of smuggling.
BTW, if you think that 3 years is a bit tough for smuggling ammo, try smuggling a bottle of scotch into Saudi Arabia!

 

[FireMax]

Stage 2
We don't punish people for who they are, we punish them for the crimes they commit

What wonderful world do you live in? Do they have leprechauns there too? .... Unicorns?

 

[blume357]

All I have to say is I just flew to Reno, NV and back...

I probably spent a total of at least 8 hours (a day) studying the TSA regs for checking a gun and ammo... just to fly to Reno...

flying to Russia? how in the world did he get out of the U.S. with that Ammo? Every flight I've taken inside the U.S. over the last 4 years when I get to my destination I find a love note inside my baggage from the TSA.

 

[Alleykat]

Then there's prosecutorial discression. Of course, if Russians were the kind of people who liked to make decisions, they'd never been such suckers for Communism over the years. It's a shame that the guy, regardless of his I.Q., would spend 3 years in a Russian prison for such a harmless misdeed. Given the facts as I understand them, only a complete fool would prosecute somebody for bringing 20 rounds of hunting ammo into their country. Sounds as uncivilized as Mexico, Chicago, Kalifornia, etc., etc.

 

[applesanity]

flying to Russia? how in the world did he get out of the U.S. with that Ammo?

Yeah.... about that.

It's a shame that the guy, regardless of his I.Q., would spend 3 years in a Russian prison for such a harmless misdeed.

Stupidity should hurt.

 

[blume357]

I doubt he'll spend much more than a week or so in Jail...

Russians know better than anybody, except for possibly the chinese how to trade a favore for a favore..... we'll probably trade him for someone in the russian mafia.

 

[STAGE 2]

What wonderful world do you live in? Do they have leprechauns there too? .... Unicorns?

A world where stupid people go to prison for their stupidity.

 

[alfred]

I think that he was very lucky and possibly blessed.

#1-He could have been caught at a US airport trying to smuggle 20 rounds of Russian ammo in.

#2-He could have been caught trying to smuggle 20 rounds of any ammo on a US plane in a US airport.

#3-He could have been caught trying to smuggle 20 rounds of ammo into Canada.

#4-He could have angered the the American president for any reason whatsoever and the president could have sent him to a military prison in Cuba to be issued his very own water board to be used at the discretion of the president.

#5-He could have been caught in the wrong state in the Good old US of A with twenty rounds of ammo in the same compartment in his automobile.

I once rooted for Toro at a Spanish Bullfight.It almost got me killed by a angry crowd.

Being that he is a Minister,God may be giving him a opportunity to do his work in the Russian prison system.

I AIN'T DEAD AND I AIN'T QUITTING.alfred

 

[mvpel]

So if someone went to Saudi Arabia and was arrested for possession of a Bible which they failed to declare on the customs form, would you support any punishment imposed by the Saudis, likely to include imprisonment and perhaps flogging?

Personally, I oppose injustice, no matter which country imposes it.

 

[applesanity]

So if someone went to Saudi Arabia and was arrested for possession of a Bible which they failed to declare on the customs form, would you support any punishment imposed by the Saudis, likely to include imprisonment and perhaps flogging?

Strawman. I don't think anyone here is comfortable with having one of our own judged and punished by some other country. I myself think 3 three years is a bit harsh. But it's their country, their rules. Some of us are just saying that stupidity should hurt. I wouldn't support the punishment; I'll support the right of the Saudi Arabian goverment to lay down the law in their own freaking country.

So, if the crime for "possession of Bible with intent to evangelize" in Saudi Arabia is 39 months imprisonment immediately following 613 lashings, plus forced ingestion of some very un-kosher scallops wrapped in moldy cheese and spoiled bacon, then don't go to Saudi Arabia with a bible.

 

[Musketeer]

So if someone went to Saudi Arabia and was arrested for possession of a Bible which they failed to declare on the customs form, would you support any punishment imposed by the Saudis, likely to include imprisonment and perhaps flogging?

Personally, I oppose injustice, no matter which country imposes it.

Do I like it? No.

Do I support their right to do so? Yes.

It is their land, their law. If you are not ready to accept the consequences of it then don't go there.