Physics of shooting a rifle

That method of calculating wind deflection was first published by a French artillery officer named Didion in, IIRC, 1868. He authored a book on the basics of ballistics for military academy students of his time, and it was included in it.

For those unfamiliar with the principles, even though commonly called "wind drift," bullets aren't actually drifting in the wind due to it blowing sideways on them. Indeed, they are so fast that any air molecule that glances off the side of the bullet will do so at an extremely acute angle, meaning there is no direct sideways blowing of air on the bullet. For that to happen, the air mass would have to be both moving forward at the speed of the bullet plus be moving sideways. Instead, what happens is the side wind and the headwind from the speed of the bullet combine into a vector that is a little off straight ahead in the windward direction. Precession tilts the bullet nose into this slightly angled headwind so that drag is no longer straight back toward the gun but rather is angled like the headwind. It is the sideways component of that drag vector, due to that angle, that moves the bullet sideways. So, if the headwind is at 1250 fps, and the sidewind is at 14.7 fps, 1250/14.7 is about 85, and thus a side-directed force equal to about 1/85 of the drag on the bullet will be moving the bullet to the side.

Knowing that much, you next want to know how much drag is on the bullet. The difference in actual TOF in the air from what it would be in a vacuum tells you how much force has decelerated the bullet on its way to the target. If you know the mass of the bullet, the calculation of the average decelerating force is trivial. You would then calculate how far 1/85th of that force would move the bullet during its TOF to learn the wind deflection. Fortunately, there's the shortcut observed by Didion, which is simply to multiply the wind speed by that difference in TOF. It is all really doing the same thing, but it gives your brain a fun puzzle to see why that has to be so.

This bit of reality bedeviled F. W. Mann in his 1907 book, The Bullet's Flight…. He apparently never saw Didion's work. The poor fellow never did understand how wind drift works, and was clearly much vexed by fact that if he dropped a bullet in a crosswind from a height that gave it the same time of fall to a surface as its TOF to a target, it was blown only a fraction of an inch instead of the the several inches the bullet was deflected by wind at the target.

A number of years ago I wrote a point mass solver in Excel because I wanted to be able to see intermediate calculation results that aren't displayed in a commercial ballistics programs. One of the interesting things I hadn't considered when I started the project was that the height of apogee above the gun muzzle when firing at a positive angle of departure, plus the fall from apogee to the target would not add up the the total drop. Total drop is how far a bullet falls below a bore-sighted target when the bullet is fired truly horizontally. This is because, when you fire angled up, drag on the bullet can be divided into horizontal and vertical drag vectors. At the start, the vertical component of drag is pointed downward, so it assists gravity in slowing the bullet's climb. But when the bullet passes apogee, it starts turning downward, so the vertical drag component is now pointed up and fighting the pull of gravity. You might think the two halves of the trajectory, adding to and subtracting from gravity would simply cancel each other out, but the fact the bullet is slowing and having its total drag decrease as it flies, and that this decrease is non-linear, plus the fact the arc of the trajectory bends down faster and faster as the bullet goes downrange, increasing the vertical portion of the total drag, all adds up to long range drop becoming significantly smaller than the gravitational constant and time of flight predict. You really need to shoot in a vacuum to make that work out.
 

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Physics is a wonderful way to describe what we observe happening. But, sometimes, its doesn't seem to make much sense, though the math always "computes" the reasoning sometimes escapes me.

Perhaps they use the term "relative" for that reason?? :rolleyes:

One of the homework problems a co worker who was taking those classed had always baffled me.

Swimmer in a pool, swims to the far end, then back, gets out the same exact spot he went in. That was the set up, the problem the student had to solve was, using the formulae provided, they were to prove the swimmer went no where.

The math did work out. Only the logic didn't, for me. In "hobbit terms, he went "there and back again", but in math terms, since he started and ended in exactly the same spot, he "went nowhere".

Sometimes this "math vs, objective reality" gets applied in firearms discussions. Sometimes its on point, sometimes, its not. Sadly, I missed this thread when it was active last fall, or I would have responded to a number of points brought up then, but I won't now, unless they come up again.

Suffice to say that that not everyone's understanding is the same.
 

tangolima

New member
Robert McCoy derived the same equation in his book. It is based on point mass model, if I remember correctly. The cross wind produces a sideways force following the same drag force model. Such force accelerates the bullet sideways.

The theory is neat and simple, at least the end result is. In real application, getting TOF is pretty hard. I try to estimate that from the elevation dope at different distance. There is still holes in the method. The hard and questionable part is estimating launch angle for zeroing. Sight height and first crossing zero is suspicious, especially for slow projectiles such as .22LR. I have an idea but I will need to do some tests first.

-TL

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I added a paragraph to my post while you were both posting. It explains a little more of what is going on.

Where sight height is concerned, the gun's bore line has to be at the same angle above horizontal to hit the middle of the target regardless of sight height. The sight setting, however has to be adjusted to compensate for what that sight height adds to the angle of view, but not to have he angle of departure.

I've tried before to give folks a non-physics, non-calculation-based demonstration of how wind deflection works, but it hasn't always connected. I take a sheet of paper and tell them it represents the mass of air between the shooter and the target. Then I have them hold a Flair against the paper near one edge, telling them the tip represents the bullet. Next I push the paper sheet straight towards them, and ask them to focus on feeling what direction the drag is in. This is analogous to a bullet travelling in a straight line across the air mass between the gun and target in zero wind conditions. The drag direction, of course, is straight back in the direction the line is being drawn in; straight back toward the gun. Next, I repeat, but this time I push the paper both back and sideways to simulate the air mass having a crosswind. This time the line is diagonal rather than straight across the page, and of course the drag is again felt in the direction the line is being drawn. This means the drag is felt at the diagonal angle and not straight back toward the "gun," and that sideways portion is why, when you've set the sight to compensate for a crosswind, if you could see the bullet heading downrange in your scope, it would appear to first go to the windward side and then hook back to land in the bull's-eye.
 

tangolima

New member
In a dope table, elevation is 0 at zeroing distance (50 yd) is this case. At other distances, additional angle (elevation dope) is added to the zero elevation. In other words, elevation dope is angle relative to the zero.

But we need to know the angle between the bore axis and horizontal line (launch angle / angle of departure) in order to calculate the bullet drop. We won't know that until we figure out the absolute launch angle at zeroing. Here I am taking a short cut. 50 yd is a 1st crossing zero. Assuming the gun is horizontal (fallacy #1) and negligible gravity influence on the bullet (fallacy #2), such launch angle can be estimated with the sight height. Errors happen, especially for slow moving bullet, due to the above 2 questionable assumptions. That's what I'm going to tinker next.

Here bullet drop has nothing to do with line of sight. Imagine the bore of the rifle is set horizontal and fires. The bullet drop is relative to the horizon bore axis. By principle of flat firing (launch angle much smaller than 6 degree), such drop can be estimated with the launch angle. Here lies fallacy #3, the bullet's vertical fall slows down as the speed picks up. For now I'm not going to worry about that.

It may be a bit beyond the scope of current discussion, gyroscopic stabilization of a aerodynamically unstable bullet has brought me a few more grey hairs. Bottom line is the bullet will end up with a posture (yaw and pitch) that lessens the external perturbation. A left cross wind makes bullet point to left and down, and a right cross wind makes the bullet point right and up. It lessens the effect of the cross wind by pointing into the wind. But the bullet itself keeps moving down wind. It may appear in the scope that the bullet gains on the wind. It is because of the correction angle (windage) we put in. We shoot more into the wind waiting for the wind to push right back on.

-TL

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stagpanther

New member
And now for something completely different.;)

Wind does not push a projectile moving faster than the velocity of the wind--the airmass carries it. I've always had a contrarian point of view of these things as a result of many years of being a glider pilot.:) Wind is not a bunch of arrows flying around that when it collides with an object pushes it--it is the movement of air masses generally resulting from barometric pressure gradient differences. Individual molecules of air may have little mass--but large bodies of air can have tremendous mass. Air masses moving along the surface almost never move in a linear flat constant angle because of advective disruption with the objects on the surface (trees, rocks, buildings, mountains etc.). Even out in a perfectly flat desert--or ocean--the wind can be disrupted by convective heating--rising columns of air. it doesn't take much to trigger a release of a column of heated air from the surface--and it will continue to rise as long as there is a temperature difference between the heated mass and the surrounding air's temperature (lapse rate) of approximately 3 degrees.

The best way for me to try to "understand" air movement is to think of it in terms of fluid dynamics--much like water in a stream that flows up, over and around rocks but also is upset and creates eddies, downflows and rotations. Temperature also plays a big role in both heating and cooling of the earth's surface. 22lr shooting is great in a sense because it readily shows the effect on the trajectory of the bullet more obviously than other cartridges with slight changes in the environmental conditions (especially as the range goes out beyond 50 yds).

Fire away!:D
 

tangolima

New member
Push, carry, pull, lure, whatever you term it, the cross wind exerts a lateral force on the projectile to make it move sideways. That's the bottom line. My take on this may be different from unclenick. The cross wind and the bullet's velocity are orthogonal vectors. They are independent from each other. The high bullet velocity has no bearing on the effects of the cross wind. It is everywhere along the trajectory, so it doesn't have to run as fast as the bullet and keeps blowing on the bullet. So the generic approach is to have 2 drag models, longitudinal and lateral. But this is unnecessarily over complicated. In exterior ballistics, we are dealing with a special case where bullet velocity is orders of magnitude higher than the cross wind.

Derivation of the said equation show that such special case can be sufficiently described with only the longitudinal drag model with slight change of angle of attack.

-TL

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stagpanther

New member
The high bullet velocity has no bearing on the effects of the cross wind. It is everywhere along the trajectory,
Partially true IMO--the bullet velocity does not somehow affect the wind--but the amount of time the bullet is in the airmass that is moving most certainly affects the wind drift of the bullet.
 

tangolima

New member
Partially true IMO--the bullet velocity does not somehow affect the wind--but the amount of time the bullet is in the airmass that is moving most certainly affects the wind drift of the bullet.
In terms of TOF, I agree.

-TL

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Blowing on Bullets:
If only the wind pushing on a projectile explained its deflection to the side, same-weight, same area, higher BC bullets would have no less wind deflection for a given time of flight (TOF) than blunt shapes do, but they do have less deflection. When it comes to which otherwise-identical bullet will be least deflected by wind during a given TOF, it is always the one with the highest ballistic coefficient. That is because it has lower drag turned into the wind vector. It is the wind vector, in effect, steering the direction of drag that causes wind deflection. There is not enough direct force from a side wind to produce the amount of wind deflection that actually occurs.

An Example:
A CCI 22 LR Standard Velocity round is fired from a rifle at the factory-claimed 1070 fps. Its flat fire TOF to 100 yards in an ICAO standard atmosphere is 0.3024 seconds. If it is fired in a 10-mph crosswind, it will deflect 3.877 inches at the target. If we calculate how far the wind could blow that bullet in that circumstance, we get a much smaller number. About 0.068 inches. Even if we pretend the bullet doesn’t yaw to point into the wind and instead pretend the wind moves with the bullet and blows on the side of it, in 0.3024 seconds, it works out that a 10 mph wind will blow the bullet, not quite 0.55 inches. So there is no way to account for the observed amount of deflection by having the wind blow on the bullet.

I have attached a file with the calculations for anyone interested in them.

Estimating TOF from Bullet Drop:
In the air, everything has a terminal velocity. Assuming point-forward bullets, those with higher ballistic coefficients will have higher terminal velocities. This means that when fired at the same velocity as otherwise-identical bullets with lower BCs, their total drop will be greater. If I fire the old Hornady .308" 150-grain RN at 2800 fps, after 1 second, it has traveled 525 yards and has a total drop of 141.5 inches. If I fire the Hornady .308" 150-grain FMJ BT at the same velocity, after 1 second, it has traveled 674 yards and has a total drop is 157.4 inches. A bullet dropped in a vacuum, using the 32.17405 ft/s² gravitational constants, will fall 193.04 inches in 1 second so that you can see almost a quarter of the gravity drop is being shaved off by drag.

Estimating TOF from bullet drop is most easily done using a point mass solver. If you know your muzzle velocity and zero, plug those in, then tweak the BC until you see the same drop on paper that you actually measured. At that point, the program’s TOF should be a good match.
 

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tangolima

New member
Thanks Unclenick. I will have some time this week to go through your calculations and the one I picked up from the book(s). The cross wind causes the projectile's wind deflection by the amount given by the equation (TOF - To) * Vw. The exact mechanism, should it be push, pull, drag, or whatnot, we will explore further. This is my take. The key, and in fact to almost all exterior ballistic parameters, is TOF. Shorter TOF, the better.

In the meantime, I'd like to open up a new rabbit hole. This one is also related to exterior ballistics, and it has more flavor in maths than in physics.

When browsing youtube, I came across this idea of "weaponized maths". https://www.snipershide.com/precision-rifle/truing-your-ballistic-calculator-with-weaponized-math/.
It is basically a method to estimate elevation dope in lieu of a ballistic calculator. After zeroing the rifle, say at 100yd. The shooter shoots again at another distance, say 300yd. From the bullet drop, he can quickly estimate the dope at other distances up to, say, 1000yd. This is done without knowing the MV and BC, and without a ballistic calculator at hand. Just use the calculation form provided. I think it is pretty cool.

I went ahead and did my own equation manipulations and number crunching. I came up with an improved version of this method. I still need to fire at one distance after zeroing. Instead of using the calculation form, I just need to remember one constant, which is specific to the type of the bullet. It is pretty cool too!

I will share the details in a later post. In the meantime, if you are interested, please read and understand the original method following the link. It is a bit convoluted, but quite simple really.

Have fun!

-TL

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stagpanther

New member
In addition to the formulas you use in your calculations--it would be useful to see how they match up to actual in-the-field shooting. The interesting thing about 22lr is that it "compresses down" observable effects in relative short ranges that make them easily observable in terms of drop/drift. While the physics of bullets are generally similar--I think 22lr is somewhat unique in the method of compressing the lead projectile into the chamber and down the bore which makes it "apples to oranges" to some degree when comparing it to faster jacketed centerfire cartridges. I often see dispersion in cross winds in which the vertical seperation is equal to or greater than horizontal when shooting 22lr. If I can get the wind as close to my 6 as possible the effects are minimized to a greater degree than trying to compensate for head or crosswinds.
 

tangolima

New member
To be honest, I haven't rigorously tested the calculations in the field yet. I don't have a anemometer. Have been looking for one on and off.

Rather I just eyeball the wind indicators, flags, grass, etc, on range to come up with a estimate on cross wind. I refer to the weather report of the day too. Then I plug it in the equation to come up with windage dope. Pick a point on the berm and fire a couple of rounds. Measure the windage of the poi with the scope reticle. There are always errors. 2 or 3 moa is common. Then I dial it in and start "firing for effect", adding in small hold over for each round as it goes.

-TL

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stagpanther

New member
Found an interesting article that takes a good look at factors that influence drop/drift of 22lr. I like the emphasis on transonic zone and where/when it happens, and to what degree. The author also looks at scaling the ballistics of 22lr to that of bigger centerfire cartridges as an obvious boon to training. I'm not exactly sure that scaling can be done reliably in a linear way, I find very small variations in environmental conditions can have profound consequences on the bullet's drag/stability anywhere along its trajectory. Good food for thought.
 

tangolima

New member
Great. More materials for lunch time reading.

I like to use TOF as reference for comparison. It is about 0.5s for HV .22LR at 200yd. It is equivalent to 400 to 500yd for center fired calibers. At 500yd, a center fired rifle is doing quite well if it hits a 8" target consistently. It matches my .22LR rifle at 200yd. I can hardly hit soda can one out of 10 shots. But I'm confident of hitting 8" plate one out of two.

Scaling factor is about 2.5x, the way I see it.

-TL

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stagpanther

New member
I shoot 22lr fairly frequently at distances between 200 to 250 yds. I can zero my scope for that distance--but the next time I go out shooting unless the environmental conditions are nearly identical to the last time out--as well as the distance, hold, angle to target and shooting position being the same--the bullet impacts generally won't be very near where they were in the last shooting session.
 

tangolima

New member
Do you have level bubble? Rifle canting is critical for shooting .22LR at such "long" distance. That's actually one of the topic discussions that I want to start in this thread.

I didn't take this serious, till I found it really makes difference. Even after I started checking level for each shot, I still find my technique for correct canting questionable.

- Sight placement ok. Ready to fire.
- Check level off. Rotate rifle to correct.
- Sight now off. To correct, I should move rear bag. But subconsciously I actually rotate the rifle back. Now the rifle is canted again.
- Before I would fire without rechecking level. Now I will make myself move rear bag and recheck level. It makes difference.

I am mostly working on 150yd to 175yd. Occasionally I attempt 200yd. I found elevation dope holds well, considering the center of the group. Temperature changes make small difference, usually within 1moa. Cross wind is the big one. Easily 6 to 8 moa. Actively corrections have gradually improved my hit rate. It is encouraging as my ability to read the wind is improving.

I also found bipods help, especially for center fired calibers. Even for .22LR, it basically makes the canting a non-issue.

-TL

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stagpanther

New member
Yes--I always use a level on almost all my rifles when shooting past 100 yds. You're not going to get under 2 MOA at 200 yards shooting 22lr without one--I can pretty much guarantee that. When rating the damaging effects of wind on the trajectory of the 22lr at longer distances I would rate them as follows (in descending order from worst to least):

1. Quartering headwind
2. headwind
3. crosswind
4 quartering crosswind
5. tailwind
 

tangolima

New member
Interesting. You found head / tail wind critical, even more so than cross wind. That means the projectile is moving slow and its trajectory angle is steep.

10mph is about 15fps. When the projectile is moving less than 200fps, it changes things. When trajectory angle is steep (result of long distance with low MV), wind creates high angle of attack.

In this regard, I think center fired calibers have clear advantage, as they maintain fast supersonic speeds, and the trajectory is flatter.

-TL

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stagpanther

New member
Interesting. You found head / tail wind critical, even more so than cross wind. That means the projectile is moving slow and its trajectory angle is steep.

10mph is about 15fps. When the projectile is moving less than 200fps, it changes things. When trajectory angle is steep (result of long distance with low MV), wind creates high angle of attack.

In this regard, I think center fired calibers have clear advantage, as they maintain fast supersonic speeds, and the trajectory is flatter.

-TL
Not exactly--I rate a tailwind (6 o'clock) as having the least disruptive influence on the 22lr trajectory. Straight on headwind with a cross the most damaging (meaning greatest degree of dispersion) and a crosswind somewhere in the middle. This is based on what I see on my targets at around 200 yds +/-

Upon further reflection--I guess the argument could be made that the important thing is consistence of the conditions--whatever direction the wind may be coming from. A steady breeze at 10 mph might be better than a variable one at 5 mph. Where I shoot, however, a constant velocity wind never happens, so what I have to do is get a feel by timing the cycles if possible.
 
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