out of luck CCW due to travel arrangements???

[therealdeal]

I thought I'd bring this up since I have only been CCW 2yrs, and I have only been legally able to CCW for 2 years as well.

If you take an amtrak with your family you can't CCW or pack the weapon in any way, shape, or form??

we're taking a train- when the tickets were bought I inquired about CCW since I will be an off-duty LEO. the answer was no. Well, I double checked when the tickets were picked up 2wks later because it was worth a 2nd opinion. sure enough, this is a no-go. the woman said they are working on it(a policy is pending), but at this point in time it willnot happen. I of course willnot be bringing any firearm with us when we take the train for one of the holidays(a good week timeframe to say the least). You have to be on duty, but I thought if you were offduty you could just inform them. my buddy CCW's on airplanes - not packed in luggage; on his person. he is off duty and he just lets lady at counter know he is offduty LEO CarryingConcealedWeapon under LEOSA and he goes in backroom with someone they call and signs some kind of waiver and/or promisary form after showing his ID and/or credentials. Honestly, I haven't had the guts to do that yet and its completely legal(only had one opportunity and passed), but I would've liked to have brought my firearm on our trip to CCW while visiting and to show my Dad the firearm. This thread might be pointless, but I thought maybe some CCW buffs with multiple permits and/or experience or some retired and/or active LEO's carrying under LEOSA might have some insight. I have to drive for this?? I know many LEOSA CCW's don't realize they can fly, but I checked that one out. It is legal. I am surprised the train thing won't work

 

[therealdeal]

thank you for any replies

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You have to be on duty, but I thought if you were offduty you could just inform them. my buddy CCW's on airplanes - not packed in luggage; on his person. he is off duty and he just lets lady at counter know he is offduty LEO CarryingConcealedWeapon under LEOSA and he goes in backroom with someone they call and signs some kind of waiver and/or promisary form after showing his ID and/or credentials. Honestly, I haven't had the guts to do that yet and its completely legal(only had one opportunity and passed), but I would've liked to have brought my firearm on our trip to CCW while visiting and to show my Dad the firearm.

On duty means you can carry a gun in places not otherwise allowed. Of duty, you get to carry because you are a LEO, but that does not mean you get to carry where guns are not allowed. This is because you are not carrying in an official capacity. If your train trip is for official business, then they can't stop you (as I understand it).

 

[pogo2]

Is your trip prior to Dec. 15, 2010?

I looked on the Amtrak website and it said this:

Firearms in Checked Baggage
The Departments of Transportation and Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2010, enacted into law on December 16, 2009, requires Amtrak to implement the procedures necessary to provide storage and carriage of firearms in checked baggage cars and at Amtrak stations that accept checked baggage, within one year of the bill’s enactment. This requirement applies solely to checked baggage, not carry-on baggage.

Amtrak’s current policy prohibits all firearms, ammunition and other weapons aboard its trains. This includes any being carried on the person, in carry-on baggage or in checked baggage. Please be advised that this policy remains in effect until Amtrak begins firearms carriage in checked baggage on December 15, 2010; starting on this date all passengers wishing to check firearms or ammunition will be required to follow the Firearms Policy.

 

[troy_mclure]

i have only been to 2 amtrak stations, but i have never seen a metal detector or xray machine at either.

 

[Gary L. Griffiths]

i have only been to 2 amtrak stations, but i have never seen a metal detector or xray machine at either.

Kinda my take on the issue. As I recall, the LEOSA of '04 authorizes you to carry regardless of local (including Federal) laws to the contrary, except for places which are security screened. If it were me, I would just go ahead and carry relying on that law. After all, concealed is concealed, and the issue should only come up if there is an incident that requires you to use it. If so, the legal issue would be a distant second.

 

[therealdeal]

i would be very nervous to CCW on the train unless its legal. I wouldn't want to take the small chance of it becoming an issue because a weapons charge would become known at work. We do backround checks every 5 yrs. regardless, they are definately not legal - I don't think LEOSA grants us permission over the amtrak policy.

It looks like I will just miss that deadline too, Pogo. That must've been what she was speaking about on the phone. Basically, it will be legal for me as of 15DEC2010.

 

[WC145]

I seldom ride trains, the last time was probably 6yrs ago out of Boston. I was carrying off duty and just got on the train and went, no one questioned me, there was no check point. I have no idea if it's done differently today.

my buddy CCW's on airplanes - not packed in luggage; on his person. he is off duty and he just lets lady at counter know he is offduty LEO CarryingConcealedWeapon under LEOSA and he goes in backroom with someone they call and signs some kind of waiver and/or promisary form after showing his ID and/or credentials.

I call BS on this one.
LEOSA doesn't cover you for flying armed off duty. Unless you're a fed or on official business with the appropriate notifications to TSA and have taken the "LEO Flying Armed" course it's a no go and there's no if's, and's, or but's about it. You sure as hell don't just walk up to the counter and claim LEOSA and they let you through on your badge and ID. Your buddy's yanking your chain.

 

[troy_mclure]

i would be very nervous to CCW on the train unless its legal. I wouldn't want to take the small chance of it becoming an issue because a weapons charge would become known at work. We do backround checks every 5 yrs. regardless, they are definately not legal - I don't think LEOSA grants us permission over the amtrak policy.

amtrak policy is just that, a policy, not a law. unlike the leosa.

 

[boredom]

i would act as if you didnt speak to anyone regarding not being able to carry and use the fact that you are a LEO, despite being off-duty, grants you certain privileges. i also wouldnt make any reference about it, unless you are directly asked, then address yourself as an LEO and go from there.

 

[8shot357]

therealdeal

Post #7

I don't think LEOSA grants us permission over the amtrak policy.

Who's us? Are you an LEO?

 

[dajowi]

AmTrak, another shining example of a situation where an armed bad guy finds a safe haven among non-armed concealed carry licensed victims.

 

[kraigwy]

Any more, I don't travel anywhere that required public transportation but sometimes I do go to the Airport and if picking up grandkids, I go to the gate. I leave my pistol in the truck, but my Ret LE IE case also has a issued Retired badge, so I throw it in the basket with my keys and such to go through security.

Many times security sees the badge and tries to pass me through thinking I have the pistol. Other times they say they will have to check with the pilot. I just tell them I'm not carrying.

When I did travel on AMTRAK I just carried it and never gave it a thought.

The thing is, there are different rules, and even if the rules are the same, the security don't always follow them. I know that I don't have a reason to carry in a federal court house and am not suppose to, but the security sometimes will allow it.

I went to the Denver Federal Court house to swear in my son when he enlisted. I've ran into the same thing going into federal buildings, Sometimes they try to pass me through, sometimes they point out a pistol lock box. But again, I don't carry there either.

So even with rules, you have different security who don't know them.

 

[Rev. Chad]

The real question here is why should there be seperate standars for law enforcement and normal poeople? There need to be legal standard for all legal gun carriers. None of this some groups are more trustworthy than others.

 

[kraigwy]

The real question here is why should there be seperate standars for law enforcement and normal poeople? There need to be legal standard for all legal gun carriers. None of this some groups are more trustworthy than others.

I think there is a misconception of the reason for the LEOSA (HR-218). It was not designed to give LE or Retired LE special powers or special privileges. Its what it says Law Enforcement Officers "SAFETY" Act.

It's about the Safety of the officers retired and active. By the nature of the job, you creates enemies.

A case in point, the only case I know of where the LEOSA was challenged in court was the case where a Seattle LE Officer attended (with other LE Officers and Firemen), a motorcycle trip to Sturgis during bike week. There was an occasion where the Seattle Cop had to defend himself against some Hells Angels. Apparently the Seattle Cop, at one time had worked undercover and was responsible for having some Hells Angels thrown in prison.

The confrontation was due to revenge against the cop.

As a side note: The Judge in this case upheld HR 218 saying it did in fact protect LE officers from state law.

So the LEOSA was not designed to create a separate, favored group, it was designed to protect LE officers active and reserve. Hence the "SAFETY" in the tittle of the law.

 

[markj]

why should there be seperate standars for law enforcement and normal poeople

My cousins went to a police acadamy in order to be police officers. I sure dont have the level of training and exirience they have. Over 50 years between them one just wont retire........

Jay has that card to carry, he does security for a few places here and carries every where he can. I feel real safe when we go fishing

 

[therealdeal]

I posted on some threads last night and was responding to tonys post on this thread(and probably wc145) when my computer locked up. I am not going to try and remember or go into as much detail. good points kraig, I read about the dakota case while researching LEOSA. I have only been covered under it for 2yrs; my grandma's brother is a retired NY state police officer, and he never had the luck I had especially considering he was near NYC&NJ. He is in his 80's now - we talk and he has known about LEOSA since earlier this yr(he verified what I told him). I also let my retired atf uncle in on the goods which he appreciated being he is in mass). grandmas(may she rest in peace) brother explained the LEOSA fight took yrs, yrs, and yrs. I know one of the catalysts to get this law signed by G.W.Bush in 2004 was the death of an off-duty cop in chicago- once again, as you explained this officer was unable to defend himself offduty from to revenge due to the fact he lived in chicago and was a law-abiding citizen respecting chicago's ban. this man carried everyday, but he couldn't carry after work?! google leosa or hr218- I might be wrong- but I believe the brother chicago LEO's are at the signing with bush in the pix.

wc145, I posted a while back in a different thread on the subject(I don't expect you to remember or find it&I know you are LEO because we have been on threads together), but I verified his story before speaking of it in case he was pulling my chain. he was the one that taught me about carrying in banks too when I 1st qualified- I was confused in that I thought this was a no-no especially while thinking it was ok to have a piece in my wifes dr's room when our daughter was being born. I now know the hospital is agnst the law too but no harm no foul. maybe someone has insight on leosa and hospitals- I for one am interested. I am under the impression it isn't legal. my LT also carried on planes multiple times. as I mentioned in the other thread, a comical(depends how you define it) story is one incident where he didn't fly carrying while off duty. LT's coworker who is now retired received a phonecall from I am assuming TSA or someone of the sorts about how he was going to carry offduty. well, lets just say: "I don't see the need for him to be carrying on the plane" stopped him from doing so and is a snag that wasnt appreciated. LMAO. oh well, before my time and water under the bridge. it gets a laugh now and then. I can undertstand your skepticism. I was the same way.

I was sort of explaining what kraig did when I lost my post last night- it totally depends and I probably could get away with it. I choose not to carry at courthouses(which I am barely ever in but was the other day getting my wifes CCW permit application), hospitals, and I guess now amtrak(for the last time as in mid december 2010 it will be legal or legal enough for my satisfaction). I thought courts were illegal too and I didnt even try it. I am not one of those people that finds ways not to use the law of leosa. I just try to be correct about it(my newness might be part of it//hey, I am new to experience of some of you guyz but trust me I can hang with the best). when its something like amtrak or flying thats not small potatoes enough for me. thats more federal. I think someone might have mentioned the 'declaration' while I was reading responses last night. thats exactly what my buddy signed. it is legal for him to fly carrying and/or he and LT have done it on multiple occasions. up to the point where he walks up and explains it is legal enough. he makes it known in the beginning whether its gate, tix counter, etc I dont know. amtrak isnt an issue but I just wont bother, but if you feel ok about it then go ahead. I cant argue with that; I go with my intuition all the time& it just seems like more of a policy here. it probably wouldnt matter though- the ridiculous policy is on its way out thank goodness. I bought a knife across country and brought that back with some fireworks on a vacation. that was probably a no-go too but it didnt stop me.

lastly to shots post, I was referring to myself, active LEO's, and eligible retired LEO's when I said "us" in post 7. It was hard for me to gather whether you were leo or nonleo when reading your post.

search thefiringline thread: 'national concealed carry' that I started. I believe in it for all citizens. there were some very good poimts about how this could hurt people in better states, but national carry could be great. luckily I am good regardless

 

[8shot357]

lastly to shots post, I was referring to myself, active LEO's, and eligible retired LEO's when I said "us" in post 7. It was hard for me to gather whether you were leo or nonleo when reading your post.

I'm not an LEO, I have flat feet.

I couldn't tell weather you are an LEO or not.

 

[WC145]

Regardless of what these guys are telling you about flying armed under LEOSA, unless you do it or see it done with your own eyes, don't believe it. There is nothing in the law that speaks to flying armed and it was not designed to allow it. As I said before, only feds fly armed no questions asked, regular LEOs can only fly armed with the proper notification from your department to the TSA. You CANNOT walk up to the counter and tell them you're a cop and flying with a gun, it just doesn't work that way, LEOSA or not. Here's a link to the TSA page with the basics - http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/traveling_with_guns.shtm - as you will see there is one way of doing it and they won't appreciate anyone trying to bend or break the rules.

The hospital thing is on a state by state basis, here in Maine there's no law against carrying in hospitals, though most are posted. I don't recall where you work but, as an LEO in Maine, there is basically no place in the state I cannot carry, on or off duty, I'd assume it to be the same for any other LEOs carrying in their home states. The only question may be federal buildings, like a federal courthouse, but the few times I've had to go to one I simply ID'd myself to security and was allowed to pass.
Oh yeah, definitely no carry in secure areas of the airports unless on official business.

 

[AH.74]

Barely a month ago you were asking for clarification on your own state's CCW laws. Now you are saying you are in law enforcement, but you keep referencing your "newness". Why wouldn't you turn to your own resources rather than ask on the internet?

Are you a LEO or not? Something just doesn't sound right.