Any firearms instructor, or any teacher of anything at all for that matter, should be able to explain to students the why behind what they are being asked to do. They should also be open to the idea that a student might be able to teach them a new way they've never considered before as well.
Odd experience at a training
- Thread starter Deja vu
- Start date
Nice.
This.^^
If someone designed a class that favors pistols/magazines, then it would be courteous to state it to prospective students.
Maybe the instructor was never trained and experienced with using DA or DAO revolvers, and was uncomfortable trying to adjust his teaching methods to accommodate them?
Most LE firearms instructors from the time period when revolvers were being phased out in favor of hi-cap pistols were generally versed in designing courses-of-fire, at least for off-duty quals, where scoring and reloading were easily adjusted for the revolver users. No biggie.
Now that smaller single-stack pistols have become much more popular (again
), and snub revolvers have been making quite a comeback (stimulating gun makers to take advantage of that growing market ), you'd think that the savvy commercial instructors would be looking for ways to encourage and benefit from those folks who wish to carry small pistols and/or DA/DAO revolvers. It's not like it's all that hard to include some flexibility in courses-of-fire that can accommodate such folks. Perhaps next time, maybe ask if your choice of gun/gear is going to be considered appropriate for the training venue? While you'd hope the instructor(s) would list any requirements and prohibited gear, it might be prudent to avoid assuming things. if nothing else, it can help prevent frustrating circumstances for both instructors and students.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I think looking up the course requirements is all the due diligence that should be expected. Since Deja vu specifically looked up what the equipment requirements were, I don't think he was "assuming" anything. The instructor went to the trouble of stating no rimfire and no single action revolvers. To anyone who speaks English, that means double action revolvers are allowed. Nothing said about NOT using speed loaders. Since speedloaders are commonplace for tactical use of revolvers, I don't think Deja vu was "assuming" when he brought his revolver and speedloaders.fastbolt said:
The instructor was, IMHO, 100% at fault here. I am inclined to agree that the instructor probably doesn't know how to train for revolvers, and he was very possibly upset that a guy withy a revolver was making the students with semi-autos look bad, so his solution (in the best tradition of teaching to the lowest common denominator) was to handicap the guy with the revolver rather than use that as a way of challenging the semi-auto shooters to up their game.
Deja vu said:
I would avoid that instructor from now on.
I don't disagree the instructor is at fault for either not being clear when the class requirements were listed, or in making a stupid decision because a student using a revolver might be making other students 'feel uncomfortable' because of the comparative performance 'gap'.
However, even LE training units have occasionally learned the hard way that sometimes the posted class curriculum and requirements involved for outside training might not contain all critical information necessary. Sometimes a phone call (or email) has resulted in getting some helpful additional info ... which ought to have been included in the class info from the get go.
As far as a revolver shooter making some other students feel less capable? That was a great opportunity for the instructor to use as a teaching moment. Gear can only take you so far, and then its the gear user that becomes critical.
However, even LE training units have occasionally learned the hard way that sometimes the posted class curriculum and requirements involved for outside training might not contain all critical information necessary. Sometimes a phone call (or email) has resulted in getting some helpful additional info ... which ought to have been included in the class info from the get go.
As far as a revolver shooter making some other students feel less capable? That was a great opportunity for the instructor to use as a teaching moment. Gear can only take you so far, and then its the gear user that becomes critical.
FrankenMauser
New member
I have seen revolvers - SAs in particular - prohibited from classes before, due to the additional handling required for loading and unloading. I have seen/heard a variety of excuses. Generally, it comes back to people get freaked out by a revolver not being pointed perfectly down the range while being manipulated for loading/unloading -- or, for one particular range, the 'need' to point a revolver up at the baffles over the range during case ejection (a general rule for that range).
But, as eluded to above by someone else, I have also seen SAs prohibited due to an impression of them slowing everyone else down.
But, as eluded to above by someone else, I have also seen SAs prohibited due to an impression of them slowing everyone else down.
The guy owed you an answer. But, you probably should have asked the question at the time he told you to put the speed loaders away. When he trainer snubbed you when you asked a question, that should have been your clue he was being a dick. I don't think I would have let that go. If the jerk didn't want to speak to me then, I would find out who owns the training facility, contact them and let them know what happened.
Limnophile
New member
It'd probably be best not to pursue an explanation from the instructor. You already tried that without success, and your discomfort and suspicions have been unanimously affirmed here — the instructor was wrong, and you did nothing wrong. Chalk it up as a less than productive experience, don't ever take another course from the guy, and advise those you know and meet to avoid him.
If you get no response then you might consider posting the information about the course here so others don't get into the same problems.
If the instructor can articulate his reasons for his actions, that's one thing. Doing something weird and then stonewalling a paying customer when asked for an explanation is behavior that no instructor should display.
If the instructor can articulate his reasons for his actions, that's one thing. Doing something weird and then stonewalling a paying customer when asked for an explanation is behavior that no instructor should display.
Of course a magazine failure simply will not happen when shooting a revolver BUT there are comparable malfunctions that are experienced with wheelies.
Failure to fire in a wheel gun is generally handled by pulling the trigger again. But there are cases where there can be really serious failures with a revolver. The only truly serious example I can think of is when the cylinder gets locked. The person who carries and counts on a revolver does need to be aware of such problems and hopefully prepare for them. My favored plan B is the New York Reload; having an heir and a spare.
But with a revolver, if you can get the cylinder open it's easy and fast to simply dump all the rounds, even those not fired, and load six more. Trying to just remove the spent rounds simply takes too long in an SD situation. Only when you have used up all the speed loaders and speed strips you brought along should you look for un-fired rounds in the dirt.
Failure to fire in a wheel gun is generally handled by pulling the trigger again. But there are cases where there can be really serious failures with a revolver. The only truly serious example I can think of is when the cylinder gets locked. The person who carries and counts on a revolver does need to be aware of such problems and hopefully prepare for them. My favored plan B is the New York Reload; having an heir and a spare.
But with a revolver, if you can get the cylinder open it's easy and fast to simply dump all the rounds, even those not fired, and load six more. Trying to just remove the spent rounds simply takes too long in an SD situation. Only when you have used up all the speed loaders and speed strips you brought along should you look for un-fired rounds in the dirt.
I still think it would be a public service to post the name of the trainer. It's good that they refunded your money, but that doesn't fix things. You could have spent the time and ammo taking a different training course from an instructor that didn't have some odd hangup about revolvers.
Glad it's over but did you ever get any reasoning or explanation?
Doc Intrepid
New member
Just curious - I am signed up to take training courses with an instructor out of Idaho in 2023. (I do not run revolvers, but...)
Did you check any reviews from his website, or otherwise check out the instructor before taking the class?
Not asking you to share names here, but wondering if there was any negative feedback that you noticed.
Did you check any reviews from his website, or otherwise check out the instructor before taking the class?
Not asking you to share names here, but wondering if there was any negative feedback that you noticed.
stuckinthe60s
New member
being the devils advocate as a life longer instructor....there is a lot to watch and keep tabs on when on line with life fire. it may be just a simple case of needing to keep apples and oranges separated with separate classes or training.
sorta like being a road eval instructor at dmv. you go to the parking lot to give a car test, and someone shows up with an 18 wheeler.
again, at my place i can handle issues like that since im small, but some cant.
just being a fair and an open minded american with my opinion.
sorta like being a road eval instructor at dmv. you go to the parking lot to give a car test, and someone shows up with an 18 wheeler.
again, at my place i can handle issues like that since im small, but some cant.
just being a fair and an open minded american with my opinion.